A lot of people on both sides? Heard that phrase before somewhere, Not sure if that is what you meant boomerlives.

I guess a lot of people out there are answering the question:

‘What have you got to lose’.

This thread is a safe haven compared to other parts of the internet. Check out (or don’t) the comments.

it still amazes me how comfortable so many people are being openly racist.

I have a friend in Minnesota and some of the footage and stuff going on is crazy

Problem is, at the moment the US Plod are taking the pressure being put on them. At some point if this continues, they will push back and this will escalate horribly.

Maybe my news sources are too liberal but the impression I’ve got is that the police have pushed back with extreme prejudice and heavy handedness ??!!

…and fair play to SRAM. What have I missed about the BLM manifesto? Genuine question as I just googled the policy agenda and it seems perfectly reasonable

As above, a lot of people on both sides are using this as an excuse to stir up bother in the name of George Floyd when they don’t give a toss about him; just their own agenda.

It’s a complex situation, but not one you can simply boil down to troublemakers with their own agenda. I think what we’re seeing is an uprising of the lower classes who have been abandoned, exploited and abused by a rich (mostly) white minority who care only about themselves. Their ‘agenda’ is living in a society with some basic human decency where people aren’t left to rot and aren’t treated as sub-human because they’re black or poor. This is tipping over the edge from a protest against police violence to a revolution.

National Guard Officer shows everyone how it can be done. Don’t hide behind a gun in a helmet, get in there.

[ video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCto2r9b-F4[/video ]

Struggled to imbed the vid, but well played to that man. The more of that goes on the quicker this will calm

A couple of really troubling videos (taken from BBC News)

Share widely: National guard and MPD sweeping our residential street. Shooting paint canisters at us on our own front porch. Yelling “light em up” #JusticeForGeorgeFloyd #JusticeForGeorge #BlackLivesMatter pic.twitter.com/bW48imyt55

— Tanya Kerssen (@tkerssen) May 31, 2020

Oh my god. What is the @NYPDnews doing? pic.twitter.com/rZayr421pJ

— Rob Bennett (@rob_bennett) May 31, 2020

Well this isn’t at all sinister..

this was the capital of the united states before 1am. after that, all livestreams were cut and no noise has been heard from the protesters there since. this CAN NOT be a coincidence !! this all happened right after the white house turned out the main light #dcblackout #dcprotest pic.twitter.com/FGBvnr8yxT

— #blacklivesmatter (@villanellesboot) June 1, 2020

As long as trump stays in office I fail to see how this situation can be resolved

This is America pic.twitter.com/AhuTnxIjGR

— Kamchatka (@kamchatka_es) May 31, 2020

boomerlives
Subscriber

National Guard Officer shows everyone how it can be done. Don’t hide behind a gun in a helmet, get in there.

I saw a post on another forum pointing out that the national guard have stricter rules of engagement and more accountability than the police do in many states.

America is a failed state. Has been for many, many years. All of the criticisms that came from the 60s and 70s counterculture movement are still valid today, and then some.

The whole country needs to burn to the ground and rebuild itself. The problem is, who takes its place? China? Russia? the EU?

As long as trump stays in office I fail to see how this situation can be resolved

True, but Trump leaving office is no guarantee that it will be fixed either 🙁

True, but Trump leaving office is no guarantee that it will be fixed either

Got to agree.  It’s difficult not to think that Trump got in because a lot of people were already being failed by existing politics and possibly even our acceptance of current systems.

Those Tweets up there. Not working for anyone else?

Those Tweets up there. Not working for anyone else?

Its a bit random. Some work but usually you have to click on the ‘x people are talking about this’ link underneath to go to the original tweet and then you can see it

Should be a cautionary tale for the UK: the consequences of unchecked capitalism and a astronomically large wealth gap. Unfortunately we ve got/ we’re getting hitched onto this

The US is third world in so many regards.

Anyone who thinks this is a result of a trump government however is sadly incorrect. Police officers were killing innocent black people during the Obama regime, the only difference was that he wasn’t more or less championing it on Twitter.

In fact it’s almost better that the current buffoon is so open with it, it means they can’t hide behind misunderstood policy and grey areas, he is just outwardly, obviously and publicly racist.

It is the Western equivalent of Saudi Arabia / Russia / China etc etc, they have so much in common politically.

The thought of living there is terrifying

The thought of living there is terrifying

I agree, good ol USA is off the scale nuts right now. Police brutality, school shootings, COVID, right wing malitia/racists, a President who makes things worse every day. They seriously need to sort their shit out, quickly.

Anyone who thinks this is a result of a trump government however is sadly incorrect.

Some blame can be clearly laid at his feet, he’s both encouraged shooting of protesters (US Citizens) and he’s clearly abdicated all responsibility for taking any sort of leadership, or calming role.

As a very distant observer I don’t understand what’s going on, Clearly the cop was wrong and has been rightly arrested and charged. I don’t understand why that then turns into riots. If people want to protest peacefully then great, let them as they have the right to do so but why the violence, why the looting? As others have said the USA appears very divided but that seems to be more on wealth than race. Look out how sport is now dominated by non white people earning lottery salaries, same in the entertainment sector, music, acting etc. The previous president was black so clearly it is possible to get to the top if you have enough money behind you

I think what we’re seeing is an uprising of the lower classes who have been abandoned, exploited and abused by a rich (mostly) white minority who care only about themselves. Their ‘agenda’ is living in a society with some basic human decency where people aren’t left to rot and aren’t treated as sub-human because they’re black or poor

Not sure it’s the start of a revolution, but I think dazh has it here – it started as a race issue, it’s become a wider social issue.

As a very distant observer I don’t understand what’s going on, Clearly the cop was wrong and has been rightly arrested and charged. I don’t understand why that then turns into riots. If people want to protest peacefully then great, let them as they have the right to do so but why the violence, why the looting?

Years of anger and repression coming to the surface. The cop has been charged, the other cops who were with him haven’t and the charges levelled at him aren’t severe enough. I’m not sure how you can’t understand it to be honest. The people have just had enough. The place has been a powder keg for years now. Trump, Covid, unemployment, police brutality and the steady rise of the far right have set it off.

Look out how sport is now dominated by non white people earning lottery salaries, same in the entertainment sector, music, acting etc.

Look at that … and look at the size of he American prison population and who it consists of – and compare it the prison population of ‘all of the rest of the world’

Not sure it’s the start of a revolution, but I think dazh has it here – it started as a race issue, it’s become a wider social issue.

Hedge fund owners have been predicting a social revolution for years due to wealth/social inequality Link last year at Davis (Tudor Jones has a ted talk up from 2015)

AOC scares the shit out of them

The cop has been charged with third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. The others are pending investigation whilst all the evidence comes in and time to analyse it.

The charges seeem appropriate.

How is this getting off light?

If people want to protest peacefully then great, let them as they have the right to do so but why the violence, why the looting?

How naive? Peaceful protest has evidently not worked. What the point in protesting peacefully if no one is listening? Always amazes me that people tolerate and excuse violence when it’s perpertrated by emloyees of the state, yet howl in outrage the minute a protestor breaks a window. Millions in the US have nothing left to lose, they’ve been left with no jobs, no income, and no protection from covid, and if they step out of line they risk being shot by a gun-toting idiot in a uniform. I’m amazed that many of them are still protesting peacefully instead of taking up arms.

A lot of people on both sides? Heard that phrase before somewhere, Not sure if that is what you meant boomerlives.

I meant exactly that.

While some people see an excuse to loot Target the original reason to be on the streets is being eroded.

Some others hide behind a riot shield and a badge and use the opportunity to crack some heads and meet out what they think justice is.

Neither are right. Both think they are on the side of good.

It’s all distracting from what BLM are trying to get across

The charges seeem appropriate.

Depends (I had to google this as I’d never heard of it before), 3rd degree murder fits in with the “he was just doing his job” narrative. It’s used when a persons actions result in a death but they’re indifferent to that. e.g. used to convict drug dealers when a user dies, there’s no need for malice or intent.

2nd degree murder would be that he intended to kill George Floyd. It’s a tough one as with (minutes (or was it 9?) of him begging that he couldn’t breath could be argued that the officer knew he was killing him.

It also downplays the racist element. Even if you don’t think the cop was overtly individually racist (but the justice system is and therefore individuals get conditioned by that). As racism would make it more malicious.

It’s not just about George Floyd, him being murdered by police was just a recent example with clear footage that was enough to trigger off protests . There’s been a load of other incidents but footage either doesn’t exist (cops not turning on body cams or the footage getting ‘lost’) or is poor quality or from a bad angle that allows for debate over what happened so the police haven’t been forced to take action and the cop has just ended up on a short period of paid leave. Even if they do get sacked they are often quickly reemployed by the force in a neighbouring county, it’s a joke. The police union has way too much power as well

I don’t think the cops were charged until after the film became public and after the protests.

I don’t think they would get a conviction out of a second degree murder, you yourself are having a hard time deciding on it.

He will most probably only be convicted of manslaughter.

Charging a cop is complex and takes time, by forcing the police to charge him quickly I think they will have a worst case.

The charges seeem appropriate.

How is this getting off light?

He knelt on a man’s neck until that man died. Said man begged for him to stop and repeatedly outlined that he couldn’t breathe. This went on for nine minutes. He murdered him, second or first degree should be the charge. How did George Floyd pose a threat exactly?

There are also other (eight I read) reports against this officer of overtly racist behaviour. They should be launching the book at that cops face with a trebuchet and making an example of him. They won’t though and the cops in the US will carry on acting as the racist thugs they are. Without some serious changes with how the police are held to account in the US this sort of thing will just continue to happen.

I used to hang around here a bit in ye olde dayes – working from home means I’m visiting again.

Currently living in Richmond VA. Quite a lot of trouble over the weekend, from windows smashed to a bus and buildings set on fire. There are hundreds of legitimate reasons for people to protest about race and violence and they range from casual to systemic.
Moving here from the UK blew my mind on a lot of levels. Seeing police with almost no skills between “shout” and ‘shoot” is so different from British police and their methods. A potentially armed population does change things, but not that much.
The institutionalized racism isn’t always obvious to a white man who didn’t grow up here. Some is, some isn’t. I’ve worked to treat living here like a field trip and never stopped trying to learn. In some ways, America is quite like the UK. In so many other ways the differences are astounding. A lot of the problems here are the same as others around the world. A lot are uniquely American, and America has layers upon layers to try and get through, and not everyone wants to get through them.
Police brutality, especially white police on black citizens, is endemic and has been for decades.

Peaceful protest is an oxymoron. Martin Luther is rightly eulogied for his enormous contribution.

It is a myth however that it was peaceful protest that bought about the Civil Rights legislation. Do we really think it would have passed without the threat that was posed by Malcolm X and particularly the Black Panthers, who took up arms against the police and seceded from the state, setting up a parallel social infrastructure.

What’s the demand Inkster?

chrismac
Subscriber
As a very distant observer I don’t understand what’s going on, Clearly the cop was wrong and has been rightly arrested and charged. I don’t understand why that then turns into riots.

MSP
Subscriber
I don’t think the cops were charged until after the film became public and after the protests.

I think this is what sparked a lot of the original protests because it looked like no action was going to be taken. Perhaps if he had been immediately arrested (and charged) the situation would not have escalated as badly.

chrismac
Subscriber

As a very distant observer I don’t understand what’s going on, Clearly the cop was wrong and has been rightly arrested and charged. I don’t understand why that then turns into riots. If people want to protest peacefully then great, let them as they have the right to do so but why the violence, why the looting? As others have said the USA appears very divided but that seems to be more on wealth than race

This isn’t the only time this has happened. This happens a lot more than you see reported. It turned into mass protests.
Some of the violence comes from those protesting. Some of the violence comes from others attaching themselves to the protesting for other reasons. Some of the violence comes from the police. There’s more and more news coming through of groups, some right wing, whose people have been out there mixing it up. In my local city there’s footage of a group of white men armed with rifles out last night. Friends in the city say those protesting largely went home, and they saw lots of young idiots taking advantage of the situation after that. Police are using baton rounds, mace, tear gas, armed vehicles etc and very aggressive tactics.
Why can’t America be divided on wealth AND race? Seriously, I never appreciated the racial aspect until I lived here.

Here's the audio of that remarkable call where Trump lashes out at governors and says they need to crack down on protesters. pic.twitter.com/ANSsniYItN

— Oliver Darcy (@oliverdarcy) June 1, 2020

madman.

We can debate what the straw was that broke the camel’s back but this was inevitable, as someone mentioned earlier, the hedge fund managers have been expecting it for ages.

Would it have made a difference if the four policemen had been arrested and charged immediately? Maybe, but it would have only postponed the inevitable, until the next video goes viral.

The problems are far more systemic than that, from the voting in of police comissioners, funding the police through fining the public, so they prey on the poor and the Black especially, to the militarization of the police, the prison industrial complex, massive Republican led voter disenfranchisement and the political gerrymandering of districts creating a 21st Century version of segregation.

Don’t expect peacfull protest and opening up a ‘conversation about race’ to achieve anything. As Malcom X said: You’ve got to make unreasonable demands to make reasonable gains’

(1/2) Trevor on George Floyd, the Minneapolis protests, Ahmaud Arbery & Amy Cooper:

“While everyone is facing the battle against coronavirus, black people in America are still facing the battle against racism… and coronavirus.” pic.twitter.com/eaVUdq6NzJ

— The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) May 30, 2020