Yes, they are using religion and doing it against what it really teaches.

There’s just been an extremely interesting interview with Nazir Afzal, the former CPS prosecutor. He raised the point that when something like this happens the government and police then engage with the Muslim community through organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain.

He then went on to point out that these ‘community leaders’ are self-appointed, elderly, very socially conservative and basically totally unrepresentative of a Muslim population which is predominantly young, and female. He pointed out that dealing exclusively with these people, has not, and will not do anything to combat Islamist terrorism. The whole of the community needs to feel involved, and not just a tiny, unrepresentative and largely self-serving minority, who’s claim to represent the community is just accepted unquestionably by the authorities

There needs to be an open and honest dialogue about the perversion of an ideology to push men to commit acts of violence

There does, and deviant’s post that I pulled him up on did that up until the xenophobic BS in the last couple of paragraphs.

Some muslims are terrorists

Some non-muslims are terrorists

Not all muslims, and not all non-muslims are terrorists

This is doing the rounds on Facebook,

Sets my alarm bell ringing. Reads very much like ‘2 + 2 = a few, therefore: Jew’. A galloping Gish-ful of shoeshine?

Any set of assertions which uses ‘ Muslims’, ‘Arabs’ and ‘Islamists’ as equivalent and interchangeable descriptors deserves to be ripped a new one. I assume peope who post that stuff do actually fact check…

No? See similar tracts about ‘the Jews’.

That Peter Hammond chap is a little questionable….

“Frontline Fellowship is a Bible based African mission that has pioneered missionary work into neglected mission fields and areas resistant to the Gospel”

Link

I’m sorry, but “resistant to the Gospel”? Get over yourself Sir. Ever thought those folks might be quite happy?

Peter Hammond

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EWUUBjPMo[/video]

^ Brutal video that. Perfect example of what happens when you have ‘loose’ ROE and no checks and balances post-engagement. I can’t remember if they were convicted eventually. I’ll go google.

Edit- Nope, ruthlessly covered up. Thankfully our ROE was a little more restrictive than that. That was blatant murder. But still nothing compared to what Daesh are doing now. Toppling Saddam really did open the Pandora’s box of shitstorms there.

Murder? Hmm,

positive identification of group with weapons (00.59) and mistaken belief that the camera was an RPG (01.24) cease fire and no shooting at wounded.

Toppling Saddam really did open the Pandora’s box of shitstorms there.

Arming Saddam in the 1st place (including with chemical weapons) probably didn’t help…

Toppling Saddam really did open the Pandora’s box of shitstorms there.

The lack of planning and way it was done, though it’s been covered a lot in the past. If you effectively obliterate a country and it’s systems with no plan for rebuilding you have lost before you start. The west has a lot to answer for in the creation of what is there now.

positive identification of weapons a tripod and mistaken belief that the camera was an RPG, cease fire and no shooting at wounded.

FIFY

cease fire and no shooting at wounded.

not until a mini van turned up to help the wounded and they shot that up too.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12DzzQKrbAk[/video]

from 8 mins

So the worst you can attribute it to is honest mistake but genuine belief (within a war zone) rather than murder.

You do get the difference between the two, right?

Did you watch the video, Ninfan? Perhaps you didn’t notice the shooting of unarmed people fleeing the carnage. No-one was left alive. Massacre, murder, anything less is a lie.

What defines a war zone and how is one created?

Probably start reading here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

Ah, we’re back in the silly ‘you can shoot them when they are Throwing a bomb at you, but as soon as they let go of it they are no longer a threat’ moral relativism of the bleeding heart lefties again, quelle surprise.

there were children in the minivan btw.

it was their fault for bringing kids to a battle

perhaps it’s where they live 🙄

there is a small but viscous sect within Islam that honestly believe their role is to take the fight to non believers, kill or convert non believers and spread Islam…by force if necessary.

Very privileged to be in the presence of so many experts on this thread. Can you explain where your deep insight into Islam comes from, deviant?

The problem with lumping terrorism and Islam together is nothing to to with political correctness. It’s about treating our citizens fairly. So you can’t really stop and search all Muslims any more than you can stop and search all black people in Chicago, say, even if more black people are involved in certain crimes.

Ah, we’re back in the silly ‘you can shoot them when they are Throwing a bomb at you, but as soon as they let go of it they are no longer a threat’ moral relativism of the bleeding heart lefties again, quelle surprise.

I don’t think you get the point, Ninfan.

“Bleeding heart lefties” or people who realise that you can’t massacre thousands of people without upsetting people who are then likely to follow the “eye for an eye” logic whichever good book they’ve read it in.

Don’t start a fight you can’t win.

positive identification of group with weapons (00.59) and mistaken belief that the camera was an RPG (01.24) cease fire and no shooting at wounded.

&

So the worst you can attribute it to is honest mistake but genuine belief (within a war zone) rather than murder.

You do get the difference between the two, right?

Hmm.

So, initially you try to pass the incident off as a positive identification – which professionally, I can tell you, they didn’t look like weapons in the slightest (previous life as a trained observer in the British Army. Look up STA patrols if you’re bothered)…

Then you admit it was a mistake.

Do you know what you want??

I don’t think you get the point, Ninfan.

You’re probably right – maybe they should have tased and arrested them as well?

initially you try to pass the incident off as a positive identification –

I’m not passing it off as anything, they believed they had a positive identification of weapons – you can argue till you’re blue in the face over whether they were wrong or right to do so, but it’s categorically clear that that was their belief at the time, that the group were combatants, even if mistaken, which is enough to disprove the allegation of murder being thrown about against them.

I’m sorry but that call was a shite one. It’s obvious there were no weapons.

& I only quoted you..

Your words….”positive identification”.

Clearly it wasn’t, yet you chose to use them. Why?

To some extent i reckon the folk committing these acts are desperate to be part of an in group. Like van owners getting remaps or people planking it’s similar but more sinister.

It’s all done on line, in forums, and chat groups. People with agendas are taking advantage of vulnerable folk, and they in turn inspire other easily led idiots. Basically the same as abuse grooming. I’d consider them as victims too.

Why are young people so desperate though? What’s missing from their lives? The ones travelling to fight or blowing themselves up don’t always come from terrible backgrounds, they can be incredibly fortunate too. I’m not sure anyone really understands.

To put a quote in the mouths of the Americans…
It’s their god given right to go into another country and kill people…

When an American or a Brit says God heading into war or when foreign people die it’s never questioned.

Oh and classic ninfan distraction, happy to argue the semantics on one issue and duck away from any of the tough questions.

Because that’s what they believed they had – “yes we have seen weapons” not “we suspect they might have weapons”

When an American or a Brit says God heading into war or when foreign people die it’s never questioned.

Perhaps because they are saying “God is with us” not “God told me to do this”, in which case we would think they were crazy

What defines a war zone and how is one created?

Probably start reading here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

That’s a lot of bumpf to get through and I’m still none the wiser.

Can civilians declare war, or is it purely a government led activity?

That’s a lot of bumpf to get through and I’m still none the wiser.

From the BumpfPoster Master General! 😀

That’s a lot of bumpf to get through and I’m still none the wiser.

Do your own research…..

Can civilians declare war, or is it purely a government led activity?

So, rolling back to the core of the argument

If these people turn out to have been known to the security services (and I suspect they will) then what were they still doing on the street, and should we have locked them up earlier (even if they had not yet done anything currently illegal)?

If you want to know go look it up, at this point you seem to want to lead the thread off track with ninfan there. Still no practical solutions and suggestions?

and should we have locked them up earlier (even if they had not yet done anything currently illegal)?

Would you be willing to be locked up for your thoughts?

Whoops, looks like you posted too soon there Mike 🙂

care to answer the question?

Would you be willing to be locked up for your thoughts?

You’re implying that he thinks…

Would you be willing to be locked up for your thoughts?

Who suggested that?

Well as you don’t know what gets you on a watch list, and you want the watch list arrested what if you ended up on one? Bit too much research into something, meet the wrong people and your in an orange jump suit having water poured into you. See how some of this goes?
Have we been here before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi

there is a small but viscous sect within Islam that honestly believe their role is to take the fight to non believers, kill or convert non believers and spread Islam…by force if necessary.

Very privileged to be in the presence of so many experts on this thread. Can you explain where your deep insight into Islam comes from, deviant?

Do you disagree with his comment?

Still no practical solutions and suggestions?

Go back to the start of the thread mike, I’ve made it pretty clear…

Still no comment on this? i.e. The Home Secretary, one of whose main jobs is defending the nation from terrorist threats, preventing a fellow candidate from speaking the truth in her local hustings just yesterday, shortly before the latest attacks…

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w[/video]

And the home office of Her Majesty’s Government, financed by the populus, failing to publish a report on Saudi links to funding of terrorism?

Solutions? Raise awareness, demand public accountability…

I’ve been fairly active on that front 😉