TdF 2nd rest day chit chat

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  • TdF 2nd rest day chit chat
  • matt_bl
    Member

    MartinGT – Member
    Brailsford is just a pupper for BC and his is w@nk at that too.

    Go on then I’ll bite. Why don’t you compare the performance of BC before Dave Brailsford and now. When you can show how c**p BC are as a result of his ham-fisted leadership, please post it up.

    Matt

    Klunk
    Member

    Cav has shown twice he can win without a full lead out train this Tour also.

    it’s not just the lead out train that htc give Cav. They also do all the work at the front of the peleton in chasing down the break aways. The peleton were a right rabble when htc weren’t interested for Cav.

    MartinGT
    Member

    Matt

    In last years MTB worlds at Fort William DB didnt want the Scottish Champion Montgomerie there but wanted Killeen and Beckinsale there as they were household names. Monte was placed higher than them and was in a better position than them to win, instead, nadda, nothing ZIP.

    I was maybe a little harsh. He does have success on the Track. But elsewhere?

    I was maybe a little harsh. He does have success on the Track. But elsewhere?

    More British riders in the pro peloton than any other time that I can remember, when I first started watching pro racing you were lucky if there was a single brit to look out for never mind them actually being in the fight to win anything. Britain is now properly represented at a world class level by a number of riders coming through an organised system rather than the one or two that got there through sheer bloody mindedness.

    [edit]
    I’m being a little unfair on the cycling clubs up and down the country that made a good job of nurturing talent in the absence of a properly organised national programme.

    ANd let’s face it Beckingsale is WAY over the hill and Killeen hasn’t promised to deliver like they talked about years ago.

    There is no way Cav will do as well if he moves to Sky. Too many people for too many things, what role with that give Ben Swift then? he has shown in his own right that he is up amongst the best sprinters, okay maybe not as quick as Cav but he’s still young and doesn’t have as much experience. I don’t think he would want to be Cav’s lead out more as he has the potential to be a big winner. Then who would work for Wiggo? Wiggo wouldn’t do his turn on the front to get Cav across the line? where does that put Geraint and Edvald? see too many names already of riders that can be good. To be fair I think Geraint is going to become and focus on Classics rider with a riding for others in the Tour but who knows. 2012 coming up good blow everything apart next year and lead for an interesting year in cycling.

    some great stuff on this thread re Evans, just show peoples ignorance. True the bloke is properly odd but expecting him to attack the climbers on the climbs shows huge ignorance.

    RealMan
    Member

    Morning all.

    I would love to see Cav dominate the sprints while Wiggins mops up the GC. Would be great for cycling in general in this country. Think about the effect our success in the olympic track cycling had. It would be brilliant.

    Agreed Anagallis but I suppose a lot of people here are MTBers and remember don’t smile at roadies 😉

    OCB
    Member

    I dunno, it’s too soon to suggest we’ve seen the last of Contador, he’ll have (had to have) been ‘resting’ that knee following the crashes on S9, hoping to have it healed / comfortable and ready to rip into the Alps later this week … after that if he’s made no real inroads into the CG tho’, then yeah, that’s it then – but it’s still a bit too early to say that just yet (maybe).

    But is his knee REALLY injured?

    matt_bl
    Member

    To be fair, or not, Brailsfords selections and policies have not always been universally popular on the track and on the road either, but he talks about being judged on results. I’m not sure his selections are always to do with the best result right now, but what he beleives will benefit in the longer term.

    I think team Sky is slightly different in that he has to deliver now and plan for the future.

    I agree with those saying that if Cav goes to Sky there will be too many split loyalties, I can’t see Sky team time-trialling him over the mountains the way HTC have done. Not with the stated aim of a Yellow Jersey in the next 5 years.

    Matt

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    How can a team of 9 support a green jersey campaign AND the GC? Is that really possible?

    I guess they are aiming to get different things from different stages. But two team leaders?

    matt_bl
    Member

    I think you have to have a sprinter that’s pretty self-sufficient, think Zabel or Robbie Mackewen (sp).

    These type of riders seem to have been less successful in recent times though, but when it’s a sprinters stage there’s generally a few teams who will pull back the breakaway for you.

    Edit: The other problem is that even with an immensely strong team, you can’t ride at the front every stage. Tommy V was making his guys back off yesterday, letting them know it wasn’t their stage.

    epicsteve
    Member

    I’d love Voeckler to win it. Proper “plucky underdog” stuff of legends

    Same here, but I don’t really see it either. So far I’d have said either Frank Schlecht is looking good but Cadel hasn’t shown much yet but looks in good shape.

    Can’t really decide if I’d like to see Cav at Sky or not, ’cause I can’t really see it being easy to support him for the green and Wiggins for the yellow at the same time. I can see why Sky would go for it though, as getting green would be a result for them.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    Stoner – Member

    Contador only won by the 30s or so that Shleck lost from his mechanical contador stole unsportingly from shleck’s mechanical

    FTFY

    load of rubbish, Schleck lost in 2010 due to
    in chaingate:
    poor teamwork (burned all his team on the climb, hence no-one with him)
    poor kit preparation (what no chain device)
    poor skills (mickey mouse gear change)

    and overall
    poor tactics (trackstands anyone?)

    Premier Icon edhornby
    Subscriber

    schleck had a chainguard – the chain got stuck in it. definitely a silly gear change though, and his swivelly neck trying to drag his brother up with him gets on my wick, don’t want either of them to win

    I don’t think contador is playing the waiting game, he needed to make a minute or so on beille and didn’t, I suspect he’s left it too late as Evans can match Contador on the TT

    Evans looks to be the favourite. Basso has also got a lot to do and he’s no classic climber but the TT is a bit too little too late for him I suspect

    While I would love to see Voeckler win it, I think he’ll survive galibier but not Alpe D’Huez, I think he’ll lose it there, which will be painful to watch

    How can a team of 9 support a green jersey campaign AND the GC?

    This is a major question.

    On the highlights yesterday they interviewed Mark Renshaw and he more or less said that he, Cav and Bernie Eissel were a single unit.

    So what team could include all of them working to win the sprints without degrading their GC chances?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    How can a team of 9 support a green jersey campaign AND the GC? Is that really possible?

    I presume most on here haven’t been following the TdF all that long, but 96/97 is hardly ancient history.

    The thing is, an overall contender doesn’t need 9 riders working for him on a flat day and a sprinter doesn’t need the train working for him in the mountains. A good leadout train can do useful work in the early stages of the hills, whilst climbers can help pull the pack earlier in flat stages.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Come on now everyone: still going on about Wiggins? Would have loved to see it but there is no evidence that he had a podium chance.

    Here’s some for you:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/criterium-du-dauphine-upt/stage-7/results

    RHSno2
    Member

    No wonder people think roadies are a bunch of haters…

    matt_bl
    Member

    aracer – Member

    How can a team of 9 support a green jersey campaign AND the GC? Is that really possible?

    I presume most on here haven’t been following the TdF all that long, but 96/97 is hardly ancient history.

    The thing is, an overall contender doesn’t need 9 riders working for him on a flat day and a sprinter doesn’t need the train working for him in the mountains. A good leadout train can do useful work in the early stages of the hills, whilst climbers can help pull the pack earlier in flat stages.

    It seems like a huge amount of energy being used though. I’m just not sure that a single team could control the peleton on flat days and then blow it to pieces in the mountains. HTC often have the entire team at the front, which is not going to happen if you have a genuine GC contender, rather than Tony Martin.

    None of the GC riders have green jersey contenders in their team and vice versa. Even since 96/97 it might now be too much, especially as the peleton is generally riding cleaner.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    Contador – I don’t think he’s bluffing, he just hasn’t got the form, he could improve in time to attack on Alpe d’Huez but he needs 2 minutes back on Evans which would be a tough ask.
    Evans – has to be the favourite now, unless the other GC contenders do some serious attacking in the Alps he’s walk it with the TT
    Schlecks – pretty disappointing so far, doesn’t look like they have the form as otherwise they’d have attacked harder on the PdB stage. Hopefully they’ll do something interesting in the Alps to at least liven things up.
    Basso – looks strong but climbs like Evans and can’t TT as well, if Evans can hold his wheel in the Alps then can’t see how he can win
    Voeckler – interesting one, he should survive the Galibier stage OK as it’s not that steep. If the GC contenders attack hard on Alpe d’Huez though he’ll be in trouble – would be interesting to see him TT against Evans with only a minute advantage.

    As for Wiggo, I’m not much of a fan and thought he’d struggle to make the top 5 pre-tour but the way the GC contenders raced the Pyrenees he’d surely still be up there and if the Alps go the same way (neutralised) he would actually have had a serious chance of winning, bit mental really.

    I like Gilbert and Cav so bit torn on who I want to win the green, probably more Cav as he is the better sprinter. However if Gilbert does some crazy attacks over the next two stages and gets in green then hats off to him and it could come down to placings in Paris which would at least give it some more excitement.

    Rumour mill control suggests that Movistar are going to cane it as hard as they can over some of hte mountain stages to try to get Cav eliminated! mmm should be interesting if they do, although could just be random rumour control.

    So Wiggo was in good form and won Dauphine, yes shows he’s in good form but does not mean he is going to win the Tour. Tactics still play a strong part in road racing so we’ll see.

    As Fuzzywuzzy says I do like Gilbert’s gutsy attacking but Cav is Brit so still routing for him. It’s going to be a good week, I felt very lost yesterday with a rest day. I have also realised I am not working on Thursday so I can watch a corking stage live .. can’t wait!

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