https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/xiaomi-himo-t1-electric-moped-bike/amp/

$450 for an electric scooter with 100km+ range, from an ok manufacturer.

Homebrew versions of this were all over the place in Beijing when I was there.

I’m tempted.

Nowhere near legal in the UK unfortunately. too powerful a motor for an ebike, no indicators etc for a moped. type approval does not come cheap for road vehicles

Fair point – but it shows how close and cheap we are getting.

Not sure on the rules in UK – I thought you needed to pedal to keep it legal as a bike?

Fella passed me on one of these this morning –

https://www.centralbikes.co.uk/super_soco/super-soco-london/bikes/Electric%20Bikes/2018suptc.htm

Quite tempting. Would need a CBT though…

A cheap, folding electric bike appeals too – something I can chuck in the back of an uber if I have a beer…

Not sure on the rules in UK – I thought you needed to pedal to keep it legal as a bike?

It *is* a moped (nearly). Yes you need CBT, helmet, tax, insurance.

But, such a cheap, simple form of transport, for many city commutes it’s perfect.

Could easily be made legal though.

possibly Drac. Stuff like type approved tyres in that size might be tricky and it would need proper lights and a brake light and so on. type approval for bikes is quite rigourous

At 15.5mph I can do that on my commuter already and burn calories 😉

Stuff like type approved tyres in that size might be tricky and it would need proper lights and a brake light and so on. type approval for bikes is quite rigourous

They’ve managed with cars I’m sure the boffins can manage with mopeds.

too powerful a motor for an ebike

For a commuter bike it’s not, 30mph on a 750w is perfect. Need to register it as a moped for it currently to be legal. But the law could easily be changed there and should imo.

Drac – can be done for sure but it costs car manufacturers millions to do

It has LEDs under the the grips maybe they’re indicators, tyres could sorted and maybe the law reviewed too.

Review the law to make it easier for people to get on two wheels?

That’s not how this country works I’m afraid.

Drac – I think you really underestimate how much it would take to make that meet type approval. Its easy to do it for individual vehicles but for mass production ones – not easy at all.

Plenty of road legal electric mopeds about (although not that cheap).

Its easy to do it for individual vehicles but for mass production ones – not easy at all.

I think you underestimate how mass production works.

Review the law to make it easier for people to get on two wheels?

What is so special about two wheels?
This sort of thing seems a shit compromise to me. Either go for the equivalent of a 50cc scooter with proper type approval or let it be pedal powered with the limitation that people who want to pass the 15mph limit will prefer to be on the road than on a mixed path.
There are already a few idiots near me on illegal bikes use the cyclepaths making everyone else dodge them.

Plenty of road legal electric mopeds about (although not that cheap).

thats exactly my point. type approval costs a lot. that bike is from a what I can see nowhere near ready for type approval and a long way from it. to get it up to standards would mean it becomes much more expensive.

still – Drac thinks its easy to do. Ask John Bloor.

15mph, it would take me an hour to get to work. Not sure I’d want to ride one in the traffic on the A350, it’s a very busy road.
Around town, however, I can see that being very attractive to a lot of peopl, with the bigger battery, one charge could give a couple of weeks riding.

15mph, it would take me an hour to get to work.

My car is likely capable of 60mph, half my commute is nsl and it’s 9.4 miles total. It takes over an hour in the car on a busy morning, 35-40 minutes most mornings either in the bike or in the car. For most people the speed a vehicle is capable of is really nothing to do with the length of their commute.

to get it up to standards would mean it becomes much more expensive.

Thats the problem though isnt it? Where are these people riding?
Our current cycle infrastructure is crap. Letting a bunch of muppets with throttle controlled 15mph loose on it is bound to end up with tears.
Either we need to upgrade the cyclepaths/shared paths to handle a lot more people cruising at 15mph or they need shifting to the road.
I am a long, long way from a cycle god so need to concentrate to hold 15mph but as a pedestrian have had to dodge idiots whose illegal bikes exceed their competence.

To me that looks like a moped the price of a bike, and as such is great. If I were in charge I’d commission one that does 30mph, get it approved, and offer one to everyone over 16 in the UK.

What is so special about two wheels?

Round town it’s going to use far less fuel and take up far less space so reduce congestion. Then there’s the benefit to the local environment too.

In Taiwan loads of folk knock about on gogoro electric scooters. The batteries are interchangeable, and there are loads of places to do so, so when they need some juice you just pull in and swap batteries. Brilliant idea.

Think how many people hop into their 2-tonne lumps of metal to drive 5 miles to work in the UK. The inefficiency of that concept just boggles my mind – 2 tonne car, actual everyday load of what, 75 kg? It’s ridiculous. Electric scooters are a great idea if they can convince people to ditch the car for short hops. Obviously pedal bikes would be better, but people are largely lazy so…

To me that looks like a moped the price of a bike, and as such is great. If I were in charge I’d commission one that does 30mph, get it approved, and offer one to everyone over 16 in the UK.

Get’s my backing. If we need change it needs to be pushed by government who can make it possible.
If just 50% of people used something like this instead of a car it would be such great progress.

If just 50% of people used something like this instead of a car it would be such great progress.

More like ‘If just 20%’. Would make a massive difference to traffic flows. And emissions. And parking.

Lad at work has just got one of these for his 4 mile commute.One Wheel

19mph on shared paths ,traffic jamming the local B roads or just getting round the supermarket that wee bit quicker. So much choice 😉

MOA – if mopeds provided the ideal low cost commuting vehicle then, outside London, we would see a lot more of the petrol driven variety. 120+ mpg, manoeuvrability in traffic, small spaces required to park, 30mph and anyone with a (roughly) pre millennium license can ride one without a CBT.

It feels to me that the UK market has some bigger issues to overcome to make this sort of thing work: weather – commuting on two wheels in winter is not for the weak minded (keep in mind winter weather is possible in about 10/12 months in much of the country!); perception of risk; status symbols; many commutes involve a section of m/way (or special roads where mopeds are prohibited).

IMHO the person who cracks it will have something a bit more like an electric version of this https://images.app.goo.gl/TJ31TXYk8v8choq48 probably with a mainstream badge on it for credibility. Otherwise public transport and lime style scooters (possibly personally owned and carried with you rather than the Boris bike model) are more sensible…

this is a design looking for a problem to solve – the root cause is too many cars. if there were proper infrastructure for people on bikes and proper prioritisation and investment for public transport then the need for dodgy electric kits on bikes would disappear. You can buy a Carrera subway for c.£300 or an ebike from a retailer for c.1k or you can get the bus/train if the weather is that bad.

many commutes involve a section of m/way (or special roads where mopeds are prohibited).

Yes of course but many don’t.

Point is we need creative and intelligent government intervention. Which we won’t get without significant political change.

if there were proper infrastructure for people on bikes and proper prioritisation and investment for public transport then the need for dodgy electric kits on bikes would disappear.

No, because there will always be hills, and whilst to fit able-bodied young people it’s not an issue, it is for most people. Getting them out of cars will be a huge struggle, no need to make it even harder by making the unfit slog up hills too. Although if I were a dictator I might, but that’s not a pragmatic option.

Lad at work has just got one of these for his 4 mile commute

I love the look of this! Would love a go.

Yes of course but many don’t.

I listed several issues, and you’re dismissing one. The weather, the perception of risk and status are all still barriers for those who don’t have the M/Way issue to contend with. For the niche of people who are fine with all those then cycling is an option, ebikes are an option, petrol powered scooters are an option, electric scooters are an option; this is just a cheap electric scooter its not new. Whilst I enjoy blaming government as much as the next guy, I’m not sure I’d blame them for the weather…

Jakester.
He offered me a go but I was too feart of ending up on my arse 🙂
£2000 though,that’s a pricey skateboard.

I had a go on one of those one-wheel jobbies once. Pretty sure they’re actually impossible. Not that I was rubbish at it or anything. Couldn’t do anything beyond fall off and wheelspin. Then fall off.

One of these:

this is just a cheap electric scooter its not new.

Of course, but what’s new about it is the very low price. I don’t really have £3k for a new petrol scooter but £450? Much easier to afford.

The point about this kind of device is that it could provide the kind of change we need. People are not rational consumers – they like a bargain more than is rational, often. Maybe this is the thing that gains traction and starts a change? Who knows.

Much as more cycle commuters would be a good thing.

A 30mph 750W bike with a throttle is a moped, most hairdryer two strokes have about that power. So no it doesn’t need a new classification, it just needs to be type approved for what it is.

As for cost, <£1k petrol mopeds from China have been around forever. And the fuel costs are negligible (100mpg easily).

Of course, but what’s new about it is the very low price. I don’t really have £3k for a new petrol scooter but £450? Much easier to afford.

as TJ has highlighted its not UK road legal, by the time someone goes through that and deals with import duty, registration etc its going to be over a grand – just like other electric mopeds on the market https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/LUNEX-Electric-Scooter-Adult-Moped-E-scooter-1200w-27mph-Retro-Motorbike-White/5025441390?iid=223214559334 (that was a three second search so almost certainly isn’t the cheapest).

if you only have £450 to spend on a petrol scooter why wouldn’t you just buy a 2nd hand one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIRECT-BIKES-50cc-SCOOTER/202658838555?hash=item2f2f68781b:g:JwgAAOSw6CBcvEfQ (again a quick search in your budget).

I’m not disputing the demand for e-bikes, mrs Ed loaned one and I had a go, it was spot on for going to the shops and back without breaking a sweat. But the need for an aftermarket kit that will provide quasi-motorbike functionality isn’th the answer, an ebike from a normal bike shop on the right infrastructure will do the job

But the need for an aftermarket kit that will provide quasi-motorbike functionality isn’th the answer, an ebike from a normal bike shop on the right infrastructure will do the job

You can fix the infrastructure all you like, it won’t change anything much. People don’t walk or ride because first and foremost they’re lazy. A quazi motorbike solves that, an e bike doesn’t, infrastructure doesn’t. The weather is a great excuse but if it were that big a thing people in Holland and Germany wouldn’t cycle to work in huge numbers but people in Spain and Italy would.