Suella! Braverman!

And you’re still friends with him why?

A greek Cypriot, you say  is he aware of the Turkish Cypriot population?

To be fair, Cyprus is somewhere it’s not just mad conspiracy theory that “we are being invaded and they want to replace us all with Muslims”!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_settlers_in_Northern_Cyprus

As an aside, I was on LinkedIn yesterday and some geezer (who according to this profile has lived and worked in the UK for 20+ years, if he wasn’t born here) was saying “we Indians can’t abide all this woke stuff, hopefully Nigel and Tommy will sort us all out soon enough”. :scratch:

saying “we Indians can’t abide all this woke stuff, hopefully Nigel and Tommy will sort us all out soon enough”.

I don’t think anyone who has been following this Suella Braverman thread will be surprised by such a comment.

Braverman was actually sacked from the Cabinet for criticising the Met Police and claiming that they were biased against far-right protesters.

She was appalled that the Met Police were arresting far-right thugs in Yaxley-Lennon’s pub-crawling club, and not arresting protesters calling for a ceasefire.

https://x.com/NickDayPA/status/1809179390061756502

that is brililant

saying “we Indians can’t abide all this woke stuff, hopefully Nigel and Tommy will sort us all out soon enough”.
I don’t think anyone who has been following this Suella Braverman thread will be surprised by such a comment.

Anyone paying attention to Indian politics will know Modi’s Hindu nationalism is extreme right wing, like Trump’s MAGA Cult and most Nationalist Christians in America, Putin in Russia, and factions in Germany with AfD, France, Hungary…

With all of them, it’s the ‘fear of the other’, ‘ ‘they’ are taking over our country…’, etc.

hopefully Nigel and Tommy will sort us all out soon enough”.

That’s an interesting turn of phrase… *shocked Picachu face*

All the rumours are that Cruella is about to defect to Reform in a hissy fit because she’s no longer the favourite for the leadership and the woman who is has come out and said that she’s mental!

Was the fact that she’s mental meant to be a secret then?

binners
Full Member
All the rumours are that Cruella is about to defect to Reform in a hissy fit because she’s no longer the favourite for the leadership and the woman who is has come out and said that she’s mental!

Lol, going to be great watching the Tories continue to implode.

Finally, finally, when they act like this, it’s only themselves that they harm, not the entire country!

Was the fact that she’s mental meant to be a secret then?

Well it was Kemi Badanoch who pointed it out, so pots and kettles and all that

It all seems a bit ‘calm before the storm’ with the Tories at the moment. Can’t be long before the real rats-in-a-sack civil war starts

It’ll be funny if she does defect – I suspect the good gammonish folk of Fareham think they’re above such overt nastiness as that, though they’re probably secret fans of all the sentiment.  Much clutching of pearls

‘pots and kettles….’ ho ho, very good.

Braverman might be an unpleasant and callous person, but I doubt that she has a mental illness or that she is particularly stupid.

To defect to Reform under the present conditions would be daft. The Tories did better in the general election than anyone expected, the gap between Reform UK and the Tories is as big as the gap between the Tories and Labour.

Braverman has a fairly safe Tory seat which will probably keep her in Parliament for as long as she likes. Defecting to Reform UK would very likely reduce her Parliamentary career to no more than another five years.

The only way I can see Braverman defecting to Reform UK is if she has decided that she doesn’t want to stand next general election.

Well it was Kemi Badanoch who pointed it out, so pots and kettles

That’s a potentially insensitive choice of phrase, that we could do without.

That’s a potentially insensitive choice of phrase, that we could do without.

Never thought of it in those terms.  Noted

It all seems a bit ‘calm before the storm’ with the Tories at the moment. Can’t be long before the real rats-in-a-sack civil war starts

It seems that they haven’t even worked out how or when to elect a new leader. That’s the starting gun I’m looking forward to. It’s going to be hugely entertaining!

It seems that they haven’t even worked out how or when to elect a new leader. That’s the starting gun I’m looking forward to. It’s going to be hugely entertaining!

Yeah…they are no longer in Government (thank chuff), and I think Rishi is still technically leader? who cares?.. it will be fun to watch them eat themselves whilst they try to out-facist each other.

That’s a potentially insensitive choice of phrase, that we could do without

Are you actually serious? Really? I can honestly say that what your implying – that it was meant as somehow racist – never even crossed my mind. I meant it as the phrase was intended, regardless of who it applies to.

To think otherwise is just ridiculous. Are there any other perfectly innocent, commonly used phrases that I need to stop using in case those who’ll find a way to take offence at just about anything object to?

Never thought of it in those terms

No, neither did I?

Noted

Why?

Dunno but maybe your homophobic joke yesterday has resulted in people being less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I suspect that it was just an innocent oversight on your part but Bill also seemed to have picked up on the “joke”.

And the irony is that a daft blunder like that is precisely the sort of gaff that if it was made by a Tory politician you personally would mercilessly ridicule for being brainless and stupid.

Are you actually serious? Really? I can honestly say that what your implying – that it was meant as somehow racist – never even crossed my mind. I meant it as the phrase was intended, regardless of who it applies to.

Regardless of the intent, the appropriate reaction once pointed out is “sorry”.

Regardless of the intent, the appropriate reaction once pointed out is “sorry

No it isn’t. Because there was no intent, so there’s nothing to apologise for.

seriously… read that back to yourself and give your head a wobble.

Its a perfectly innocent use of a commonly used phrase that you would only take offence at if you were specifically looking to do so.

Otherwise it’s just demanding some weird form of self-censorship and is patently absolutely bloody ridiculous

Have a word with yourself

No it isn’t. Because there was no intent

Intention is not the issue. As kryton very tactfully pointed out : That’s a “potentially” insensitive choice of phrase. Are you seriously suggesting that it doesn’t have the potential to be seen as a little dig at the colour of their skin? At least one person thought it was a colour related joke.

Maybe read it again and have a think about all the things that the two women have in common

Well it was Kemi Badanoch who pointed it out, so pots and kettles

Intention is not the issue.

Of course it bloody is! You’re accusing me of being a racist, which I take massive offence at!

At least one person thought it was a colour related joke

Well it wasn’t. It never even crossed my mind that it could be interpreted as such, because why on earth would I make a racist joke FFS! Get a ****ing grip!

From Wikipedia:

The pot calling the kettle black” is a proverbial idiom that may be of Spanish origin, of which English versions began to appear in the first half of the 17th century. It means a situation in which somebody accuses someone else of a fault which the accuser shares, and therefore is an example of psychological projection,[1]or hypocrisy.[2] Use of the expression to discredit or deflect a claim of wrongdoing by attacking the originator of the claim for their own similar behaviour (rather than acknowledging the guilt of both) is the tu quoquelogical fallacy

If you want to read anything into it other than that, then it says a lot more about you than it does about me

Like I said: give your head a wobble

Maybe also note that you’re casually lobbing accusations of racism about on a thread about Suella Braverman. A woman who’s about as racist as they come

I’ve heard that saying since I was a very young child in Ireland where my grand parents had hearth fires which regularly burnt the pots, pans and kettles. The men tended to watch kettle for tea whilst the women would watch the food pots. If one of these utensils got burnt (blackened) then it was a source of ridicule.

Likening it to some racist comment is some stretch.

It never even crossed my mind that it could be interpreted as such

That is where you have a chance to learn.  Things change and phrases which were used with no thought years ago can now be seen as insensitive (note – nobody called you a racist).

You can either accept that once someone has pointed it out and let you know or you can just double down on it, up to you.

kerley
Free Member
It never even crossed my mind that it could be interpreted as such

That is where you have a chance to learn. Things change and phrases which were used with no thought years ago can now be seen as insensitive (note – nobody called you a racist).

You can either accept that once someone has pointed it out and let you know or you can just double down on it, up to you.

Wasn’t it you that said that Tory donors incredibly bad comments about Diane Abbott weren’t racist though? Apologies if I’m thinking about someone else but I’m fairly sure it was?

I rarely remember individual posts but I was pretty incredulous at the time, hence the memory.

Anyway, the point you make is true, we can all learn, we can all do better and that most certainly includes me too.

Of course it bloody is! You’re accusing me of being a racist, which I take massive offence at!

Calm down young man, have a think about what you said, why someone might struggle with it, then give your own head a wobble, respect their view and move on.

Or shout scream and whine like you normally do. I don’t mind really

No it isn’t. Because there was no intent, so there’s nothing to apologise for.

seriously… read that back to yourself and give your head a wobble.<br style=”box-sizing: border-box; –tw-border-spacing-x: 0; –tw-border-spacing-y: 0; –tw-translate-x: 0; –tw-translate-y: 0; –tw-rotate: 0; –tw-skew-x: 0; –tw-skew-y: 0; –tw-scale-x: 1; –tw-scale-y: 1; –tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; –tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; –tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; –tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); –tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;” />

Its a perfectly innocent use of a commonly used phrase that you would only take offence at if you were specifically looking to do so.

Otherwise it’s just demanding some weird form of self-censorship and is patently absolutely bloody ridiculous

Have a word with yourself

Sorry, but no. One thing I changed my mind about after trying to educate myself in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder is that the intent of the speaker doesn’t matter – if it’s perceived to be offensive, that’s the speaker’s issue, not the listener’s. Just say sorry and move on.

We do sometimes wrap ourselves up in knots here don’t we!

Are far as I can tell, no one has actually taken actual offence. Someone has seen the phrase and thought that others might taken offence (probably those unaware of the etymology of the phrase). And then others pile in at the lack of acknowledgement of the offence that wasn’t caused.

It’s quite literally feeding ammunition to the true villains of the piece, namely  the subject of the actual thread and their merry followers looking for “evidence” of “wokeness” sending the world mad.

Ok so, I didn’t post it with the intention of accusing Binners of racism, just to highlight a potential insensitivity.   Depending on how you see things, the fact you deliberately didn’t complete the phrase with the obvious omitted wording could be seen you did that becuase actually you were aware that doing so might be insensitive.  Again, I’m not accusing you, it’s a potential perception of written text.

Re Caher’s post, I too was brought up with the same phrase being used almost daily by Cockney grandparents so am well aware of its non rascist originality.  However, those were times when overt racism was acceptable in the main and there was little thought to offence caused by intonations to skin colour in general vocabulary.

Times have changed, and it wouldn’t hurt to be sensitive of the context in which you are using the phrase and be aware of the potential for misunderstanding.

It’s quite literally feeding ammunition to the true villains of the piece, namely  the subject of the actual thread and their merry followers looking for “evidence” of “wokeness” sending the world mad.

You’re accusing me of being a racist, which I take massive offence at!

Come off it, Binners, you’ve been happily insulting, provoking and ridiculing others for years on here. Don’t act the delicate flower when someone points out that your use of the pot/kettle metaphor in this context could have unintended unpleasant resonance.

Kryton – thats exactly how I read your post – hence “noted” ie I will think about the usage of the phrase

Point of order – This thread should be about being united in condemning the hateful Suella. Division and argument is what she wants. Don’t be Suella, be more chill.

Isn’t that sexiest to refer  to someone as a “delicate flower” &’post a picture of a female looking slightly startled ?  Unintended resonance perhaps?

I think you mean sexist not sexiest 🙂

It’s too early for popcorn… Crumpets, anyone?

You’re accusing me of being a racist, which I take massive offence at!

My exact words were :

Personally I suspect that it was just an innocent oversight on your part

It doesn’t really sound as if I am accusing you of being a racist does it?

The irony is that you are accusing others of false conclusions!

It’s too early for popcorn… Crumpets, anyone?

Cornflakes are just flat popcorn. Makes you think…

I quote often shorten the term, esp when the kids are squabbling with each other  to

”pot, kettle?” Or “Mr pot, say hello to Miss kettle”.

if the origin of the term is due to blackening with soot or more likely that both were made from cast iron & had  a blackened coating do we need an updated version so no offence could be applied?

pwrhaps

”it’s like the Gaggua espresso machine calling then Dualit toaster stainless steel”?