Suella! Braverman!

Genuine anxiety seeing this back as a live thread.

Should have known she’d said something daft again.

Perhaps someone should show these photographs to the United Nations.

They could send some copies to Gaza too, to keep morale up as people starve.

Opened thread just in case…..

Is disapoint.

Perhaps someone should show these photographs to the United Nations.
Posted 1 minute ago

It would usually be apt to post a link to Conservative friends of ****** and their influence on government policy at this point but as stw is so afraid of discourse that it shits itself at the mere thought I guess I won’t bother,

Perhaps we can ask Suella to offer her services to distribution of aid in **** and keep our fingers crossed for a swift resolution.

Warning, warning – thread police are on their way.

She really is dim, odious with an unhealthy level of arrogance; not a good mix.

I would recommend that she applies the principles enshrined in the 4 Fs:

First Find the F’ing Facts.

She should also learn to operate on the basis that she has two ears and one mouth – which should be used in proportion; not inverse proportion.

Warning, warning – thread police are on their way.

Seeing as my mates 15yr old son and his entire class have been discussing the Israel/gaza issue in their modern studies class for at least two lessons each week since the conflict started with some very heated debates i fail to see the issue with discussion on this forum, apart from utter cowardice that is.

What is it about former Home Secretaries and freelancing policy on Israel?

You could reasonably apply the same questioning to the leadership of both political parties

fail to see the issue with discussion on this forum, apart from utter cowardice that is.

Read what is posted on the recently closed tbread.  Allegations get thrown around and discussion is impossible.   Mods are volunteers.

Its a shame but posters will not behave

Allegations get thrown around and discussion is impossible.

Ignore such allegations and avoid conversations with them, much as you would down the pub, there’s no prize for winning or changing others opinions on a forum

Or ban the perpetrators, rather than not allowing any discussion on the biggest topic on earth for the last six months.

That’s an option, but opinion is just that, and this is a 2-sided issue, so bannings would have to be even handed.

I’ve always tended to be of the opinion that – let’s call them ‘opposing’ or ‘unpopular’ – opinions should be allowed. It enables them to be challenged and sometimes changed once other views are seen; it allows daylight to disinfect; and if nothing else enables you to work out who the ****s are. As my Dad says opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some are full of shit.

I’ve been in some lively threads about CV19 and TG issues where I’d have been happy for some to have outed themselves and unpick their arguments further. But I understand why STW and its volunteer moderators who do an excellent job are reluctant to allow this, even if it does make the moderation on here towards the more conservative (small c!!!) end of the modding spectrum.

I know the arguments about providing the vehicle carries a responsibility for what is posted, but can that not be avoided with a clear disclaimer – THE VIEWS IN THIS THREAD ARE THE VIEWS OF THE POSTERS, AND STW AND ITS STAFF AND MODERATORS TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ITS CONTENT

and then let one thread run as a free for all. I guess the risk is of overspill – firstly into other threads (but makes that easier – “we don’t discuss that here, go to the Gaza thread” and delete the post / thread) but also of how differences are then manifested elsewhere and in other threads – poisoning the whole forum. But honestly (and noting that Gaza is a more nuanced issue than the others cited above, in my mind at least) even from the short scraps before the mods get there, I know who I think the ****s are on this issue already therefore have the option not to engage them elsewhere as appropriate.

Having just seen the latest closed thread, where the reason has been clearly stated by the Mods, as it has been on every closed thread on the subject, it’s fairly clear why we can’t have nice things.

THE VIEWS IN THIS THREAD ARE THE VIEWS OF THE POSTERS, AND STW AND ITS STAFF AND MODERATORS TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ITS CONTENT

As far as I know, the website owners would still have a responsibility regardless of any disclaimer. This isnt “our website”.

From nearly every thread I’ve seen, it’s not the subject that’s the problem. Its us.

The website owners are currently profiting from extreme pro-Israeli propaganda adverts that keep appearing as pop ups on my feed. So, stopping people talking about it is a bit hypocritical.

As far as I know, the website owners would still have a responsibility regardless of any disclaimer. This isnt “our website”.

Internet lawyer alert

https://www.internetlawcentre.co.uk/legal-liability-of-review-website-operators-in-the-uk#:~:text=As%20an%20online%20forum%20operator,were%20authored%20by%20third%2Dparties.

From nearly every thread I’ve seen, it’s not the subject that’s the problem. Its us.

Having just seen the latest closed thread, where the reason has been clearly stated by the Mods, as it has been on every closed thread on the subject, it’s fairly clear why we can’t have nice things.

Agreed (although to be pedantic it’s not me because my posts are always correct and appropriate 😉  It’s others that are a problem)

But that’s the point, it makes moderation easier – don’t moderate one thread*, zero tolerance and bans and whatever else for any overspill, no questions.

* beyond what is legally necessary, and the link above seems to suggest that’s only on request of the defamed. Maybe make that one of the unmoderated thread rules, if you post on it then your details will be provided on request to any defamation claimant!

Cheers Jonv.

For the curious but not curious enough to click through, I think this is the relevant bit.

However, in case of an interactive website, where the role of the moderator is prominent in facilitating discussions, website operators may risk being held liable to their own posts or to posts that encourage defamatory conversations. In such case, a website operator might also be held liable to comments by other users of the discussion forum if it can be shown that they had encouraged or deliberately prompted the post of defamatory statements against the victim.

On the back of Ton’s thread the other day and a little think I’ve made a decision to ignore political threads from now on.

I came here 20 years ago to seek advice from experts in the field. The field of mountain bikes and mountain biking. And we are that. But we are not experts in politics. We have no more to offer on the subject than the pub bore or Uncle Ernest who drones on and on adding no more insight no matter how many times it’s said. No one in internet history has had their mind changed (mild exaggeration but the general point stands) and there are so many better places to inform yourself. It’s like the vox pops elements of the media that are often crushingly naive and simplistic. When there are a miriad of insightful podcasts (and some dross) and thoughtful broadsheet opinion prices available to inform or challenge my world view, why would I want a lame 2nd best here from you lot? But what tyre threads – now that’s your time to shine.

So from here on in STW is for bike related threads and a bit of light hearted banter. For me at least it’s the way forward.

and then let one thread run as a free for all.

Sure, seems like a decent idea at first, but I think the damage is often done “off stage”. While the thread remains in public and on the face of it folks are [mostly] behaving; you, me, the other posters aren’t aware of what emails are going back and forth, or what’s going on in the private DMs or being sent to STW HQ.  Those are often ugly and defamatory and no one needs that while you’re doing something in your spare time.

Personally I’m not in the least bothered by the fact that this place has a purdah on it. There’s posters on here that just can’t help themselves, and can’t or won’t act like adults. So, they’ve only themselves to blame really

Or ban the perpetrators, rather than not allowing any discussion on the biggest topic on earth for the last six months.

Manchester United’s defensive frailties? The football thread is still open and you’re free to comment on us shipping two goals in Fergie Time again last night

That’s not a discussion with different opinions though. It’s a statement of fact.

You’re shit, and you know you are.

Fair point

The website owners are currently profiting from extreme pro-Israeli propaganda adverts that keep appearing as pop ups on my feed.

So if you buy a subscription to not see these you ‘ll be supporting STW and  effectively undermining the zionist state’s economy at the same time – seems like a win / win

I think it was pointed out awhile ago that STW would struggle to claim they are not a publisher (apparently there is a mag as well) if they ever got prosecuted for something one of us post.

Ever since I first came on STW the Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been an issue with a multitude of threads covering it, I certainly remember the contributions on them. And the issue has obviously always been an emotive one, but it is only in the last couple of months that it has become a totally taboo subject.

So what has changed – were contributors less argumentative in previous times? Not imo. The two things that I have noticed which are different is firstly there is far less support for Israel than there was say 10 years ago. The second thing is the reaction this has caused from the dwindling number of Israel supporters.

The standard response to criticism of Israel now is not to engage in debate, it is simply too difficult to defend Israel, but to make accusations of anti-semitism, everyone who criticises Israel is now apparently anti-semitic. On the original post-Oct 7 thread  three or four individuals repeatedly made claims of anti-semitism. This obviously proved something of a headache for mods so the debate was shut down – the strategy worked extremely well.

And back on topic Suella Braverman of course uses allegations of hatred and anti-semitism as she goes around trying to shore up support for a far-right murderous regime.

Suella trying to look Prime Ministerial, rightly gets blanked.

https://x.com/I_amMukhtar/status/1791384102391742681

That was very well done. What is she even doing parading around Cambridge with her GB News buddies? Hasn’t she done enough damage to this country? Can’t she just go away and never been seen or heard of again?

Top class Paddington Bear stare there by the woman near the start. 10/10

Can’t she just go away and never been seen or heard of again?

She will never do that.  I am not one for killing people but could make an exception for the greater good.

Susan Hall (look at me… me… I’m still relevant) was trying to make capital out of the protesters being supposedly unable to debate Braverman.

The Twitter evisceration of Hall was a lovely thing to see.

Superb response by those students. Best way to treat her and GB News.👍

I particularly liked the, “I’m Suella Braverman….MP.”

As if the “MP” bit was suddenly going to give her unquestioned authority in the rather awkward situation. 😂

Suella was due to speak at the Cambridge Union last term, but I can’t see it on their YouTube channel. Wondering if she postponed and is there for it tonight, or did attend but didn’t allow it to go on YouTube, as  I know at least one current minister did.

Trying to find out from MCJnr

But perhaps most scary it illustrates the lack of critical thought from those around her, what if it hadn’t just been two well spoken pranksters?

Hmmm, critical thinking from yer average Tory MP… 🤔

She continued:”I have seen evidence myself, in terms of very up-to-date photographic evidence, of plentiful food packages and trucks of food, water and medicines getting to the people of Gaza.”

Just wondering what the veracity of that evidence is; I was placing missing people from group photos with early versions of Photoshop roughly a quarter of a century ago – an iPhone can do even more sophisticated editing now, and don’t get me started on AI editing.

I wonder what Snopes might say…?

Trying to find out from MCJnr

Apparently she was due to talk at the Cambridge Union last term, but turns out Thursday is the night she washes her hair.

Anyone see Bravermann get owned by the fantastic Fiona Lali on GBeebies? Brilliant stuff. 🙂

https://x.com/stuzi_pants/status/1791530287395897427

Disappointing clip. I just see two people entrenched in their own talking points. Don’t think the worst Home Secretary we’ve had in my lifetime is “owned” there at all… anyone still sympathetic to her (god knows why) will just hear someone ignoring the debate and filling air time with what she was there to deliver (like a predictable politician) rather than engaging with her.

Oh – wow. Sorry.

I think pointing out to her face and in front of a TV camera the absurdity of Suella Braverman giving lectures on racism is a fair use of the term “owned”.

Although I appreciate that many GB News viewers (and apparently you Kelvin) might not agree.

And if you want to see entrenched views just look at any political thread on STW, including this one. I can’t imagine many people on STW entering a debate with Suella Braverman with an open mind.

I would have severe reservations about anyone still treating her with an open mind.  You’d either need to have been shipwrecked the last five years or be willing to tolerate an awful lot of deliberately provocative stirring

or be willing to tolerate an awful lot of deliberately provocative stirring

Just like a thread on here then!