Suella! Braverman!

Yeah you’ve got a Tory Cabinet that includes a significant amount of black and brown faces which doesn’t give a toss about racist immigration and nationality laws, and illegal practices, as long as it doesn’t affect them. And you have a Labour Shadow Cabinet that barely cares full stop.

And how many on here care? Where’s the usual ranting and outrage about how terrible the Tories are?

Or is all the best anger and outrage reserved for brexit and FOM?

” Sources told the Guardian that the home secretary has dropped a pledge to create the post of a migrants’ commissioner, who was due to be responsible for speaking up for migrants and for identifying systemic problems within the UK immigration system.”

I am frankly appalled – I had thought even the Tories going back to Theresa May had accepted that the Windrush scandal was a total indefensible injustice that had to be righted.

It’s quite simple.

Any commissioner would quickly identify that the government, the tories have deliberately built the immigration system to be bias and as difficult to negotiate as possible, with the intention on preventing people, who have fled war torn countries to find safe haven in the UK.

It shows them exactly as they are, inhumane, and they wish to hide those facts from being put down on record. Sure we all know this to be the case, but the last thing the tories want is to have a ruling showing exactly that going into the records.

Yeah you’ve got a Tory Cabinet that includes a significant amount of black and brown faces which doesn’t give a toss about racist immigration and nationality laws, and illegal practices, as long as it doesn’t affect them. And you have a Labour Shadow Cabinet that barely cares full stop.

Yes, that bloody Labour front bench, GRRR!

I’m with you on this Ernie.  Its utterly disgusting.  As is labours silence on it.  Labours silence is at least partly down to chasing those racist votes IMO and its a disgrace

As to why less outrage?.  We are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party.  to watch labour turn into the party they have become ie tory lite appalls me.  Its a given that the tories will behave like this.  Labour should not be following them

Ihave shouted about labours following of racist policies before from Burnham playing the race card to get elected to Starmers support for anti immigrant laws and brexit

YOu do make a good point tho

So, so many layers of wrong.

As to why less outrage?. We are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party.

The huge publicity that the Windrush scandal initially generated shamed a Tory government into making significant concessions and promises to implement important procedures, as the Guardian article illustrates.

So it is obvious that much can be done to correct blatant injustices, even under a Tory government.

However this current shower are quietly abandoning and reversing those commitments with the minimal fuss and publicity. Why is this being allowed?

Yes, that bloody Labour front bench, GRRR!

Instead of repeating the same comment twice care to elaborate why you agree with my disappointment at the minimal fuss created by the Labour front bench over the issue?

Or in the likely event that it is an attempt at sarcasm why you feel that I am wrong to be disappointed?

Why is this being allowed?

IMO because labour are chasing the same racist votes and the vast majority of the media support the tories and their racism

IMO because labour are chasing the same racist votes and the vast majority of the media support the tories and their racism

So why are you tacitly backing the Labour Front Bench’s inaction by claiming that nothing can be done because we are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party?

And how many on here care? Where’s the usual ranting and outrage about how terrible the Tories are?

Or is all the best anger and outrage reserved for brexit and FOM?

You know how you and others pop up every so often and say ‘Brexit wasn’t motivated by racism’ and then several of us respond by saying ‘Yes it was’ and we go back and forth, tempers flare and someone ends up calling someone else a **** and getting banned?

Well, that gives you the impression of outrage and anger despite people not actually being outraged and angry.

If you want to generate some of the outrage and anger you see on the Brexit threads then try making the point that this isn’t a racist policy. We’ll jump in and explain why you’re wrong. It’ll go back and forth and eventually someone will call someone else a **** and get banned. Voila, outrage and anger.

Maybe the reason there’s not much anger on this thread is that this is a blatantly racist policy and even our most, shall we charitably say ‘right wing’ members, are going to be hard pushed to defend it.

Yes, it’s appalling but I see you’ve identified that the most important take away is it’s a good opportunity for point scoring in true STW style.

Ernie – I am hardly backing labour!

That was my explanation of why we see less outrage.  Tories gonna tory.  Labour don’t have to

You know how you and others pop up every so often and say ‘Brexit wasn’t motivated by racism’ and then several of us respond by saying ‘Yes it was’ and we go back and forth, tempers flare and someone ends up calling someone else a **** and getting banned?

No I don’t know that. I don’t pop up every so often and say ‘Brexit wasn’t motivated by racism’. I don’t engage in debates about Brexit.

In fact I thought it was you who recently criticised me for not engaging and responding when you tried to have an argument with me over Brexit?

What I do say is stop banging on about Brexit ffs, the debate was 6 years ago, the UK has left the EU and won’t be joining again anytime soon.

As for your suggestion that this current shower are merely reversing the previous Tory government’s commitment to bring some justice for the Windrush Generation because it will appeal to British voters, that is clearly nonsense.

The Windrush scandal was not a vote winner for the Tories, which is precisely why they were shamed into doing something about it, otherwise they would have stuck to their guns.

And secondly if they now believed that there would be much political milage from abandoning their previous promises and commitments they wouldn’t be doing it so quietly.

Despite following current affairs quite closely I only learnt yesterday about the latest development which occurred about three days ago. It is clearly getting very little publicity.

They are abandoning all their promises and commitments to the Windrush Generation because they simply don’t care, and they hope that very few people will notice. I reckon they might be right.

What I do say is stop banging on about Brexit ffs, the debate was 6 years ago, the UK has left the EU and won’t be joining again anytime soon.

And by taking that stance as labour have done you let the tories off the hook

Its also IMO incorrect.  Brexit is not over.  There are still many issues unresolved like the UK has not implemented the border controls its obliged to under the withdrawal agreement, llike the NI protocol, like the continuing economic damage which is not played out yet

Brexit is going to remain the number one political issue for years to come no matter how much you wish it away.  Its wishful thinking to say “brexit is over”

And just to add, because I am pretty pissed off by this, I hear a lot of bollocks on here about racism against Europeans.

I came to the UK as a six year old child, my circumstances were, and still are, identical to the Windrush Generation. And yet there is absolutely zero possibility of me being deported**. Why? Because I am not black. I am a white European.

There is no racism against Europeans when it comes to immigration and nationality legislation and procedures.

But the obsession on here is to bang on about alleged racism against Europeans.

Edit: Whilst ignoring actual racism against black people.

Edit 2 : ** Or denied NHS treatment – Windrush Generation individuals have been denied NHS cancer treatment, FFS.

In fact I thought it was you who recently criticised me for not engaging and responding when you tried to have an argument with me over Brexit?

Nope, I deliberately made sure my question to you could be answered without being in any way related to Brexit and you ignored it anyway, I assume because you couldn’t score any points off it.

Let’s face it, it’s a bit rich for you to come here and accuse us of hypocrisy when you voted for the very thing that emboldened the tories to enact this policy. You really think they would be pulling this shit if you and others like you hadn’t voted for Brexit?

Don’t try to accuse the rest of us of hypocrisy when this is definitely your fault.

And by taking that stance as labour have done you let the tories off the hook

And by continually battering and blaming Labour over Brexit, you let the Tories off the hook domestically and strengthen their hand.

Lots of us desperately need a change of government in this country because we’ve got real problems. The last thing we need is a people getting in the way of that change because they’re still sore at not getting their way in a referendum six years ago.
It’s not some middle class parlour game to us. Our kids need housing, some of us need hospital care, we’re underpaid and under skilled. You can argue that Brexit doesn’t help that and I’d agree. You can’t argue that Brexit is the cause of it all because it demonstrably isn’t.
These problems were with us way before 2020.

Wishful thinking trail monkey

Brexit may not be the root cause but its made all those issues worse

folk pretending that brexit is not an issue is a far bigger problem and its folk taking that position that lets the tories off the hook.  Not those of us that want labour to hammer the tories for thier brexit.

Wishful thinking on brexit will not help solve the issues and labour because of their brexiteer stance will be unable to do more than tinker round the edges because they rule out the single thing that would most improve the lot of the UK citizen

Don’t try to accuse the rest of us of hypocrisy when this is definitely your fault.

Yeah it’s definitely me and Mick Lynch’s fault that a bunch of pseudo-lefties shrug their shoulders and say you can’t do anything about Tory governments being racist against black people, but then bang on hysterically about FOM and so-called racism against Europeans.

We are responsible for your hypocrisy! 🤣

Wishful thinking on brexit will not help solve the issues and labour because of their brexiteer stance will be unable to do more than tinker round the edges because they rule out the single thing that would most improve the lot of the UK citizen

Well that’s where we differ. I personally believe that the single thing that would most improve the life of the U.K. citizen would be to remove the Tories. You seem to think that it is rejoining the EU.

Yeah it’s me and Mick Lynch’s fault that a bunch of pseudo-lefties shrug their shoulders and say you can’t do anything about Tory governments being racist against black people, but then bang on hysterically about FOM and so-called racism against Europeans.

Yes, you’ve made it quite clear this is all our fault for not getting outraged. However, the extent of your outrage seems to only extend as far as pointing out our supposed hypocrisy on an internet forum, you glorious class warrior you.

I’m sure you’ve got the tories quaking in their boots.

Anyway, tempers seem to be flaring a bit on this thread now so congratulations for generating outrage and anger around this issue.

I’ll be honest gang, virtually every political topic on STW has become unreadable and pointless. Well done all.

Yep, there is simply too much history between all the posters for it to be anything else.

I’m sure you’ve got the tories quaking in their boots.

LOL! Because ranting about the Tories and Brexit on a MTB forum does precisely that!!

My last rant on here was directed at you not the the Tories, in case you haven’t noticed.

Will it make any difference? No of course not, you will undoubtedly continue with your ranting and outrage at alledged racism against Europeans whilst dismissing Tory government racism against black people as simply a consequence of Tories being racist, therefore not much can be done about it.

But ultimately no political thread on here will have “the tories quaking in their boots”, which apparently is the criteria that matters to you.

So save yourself the trouble and don’t bother ranting about brexit and how terrible the Tories are.

Edit: This six page thread is dedicated to Suella Braverman. I thought her recent decision concerning the Windrush Generation might be of interest. Apparently not particularly – my disappointment with Labour’s front bench over the issue gets more criticism than Braverman does.

I personally believe that the single thing that would most improve the life of the U.K. citizen would be to remove the Tories.

If there was an alternative but you have a in England a choice of two tory parties.  The nasty tory party and the tories with a smile.  the labour party have moved so far right they now occupy the centre right ground.

I also believe that labour would do better with a truthful manifesto of pro EU anti privatisation etc manifesto.  You know – the sorts of policies the majority want

Edit: also labour adopting the positions they have makes making life better for UK citizens almost impossible.

I’ll be honest gang, virtually every political topic on STW has become unreadable and pointless. Well done all.

This.

A six page thread on Suella Braverman is only readable if everyone agrees. Once contributors start to disagree a political thread it becomes unreadable.

I take full responsibility for buggering up things by posting something which apparently not everyone can agree on.

The good news is that I have never contributed to the Brexit thread and probably never will. So there’s at least one political thread where everyone can agree on the subject matter – everyone agrees that Brexit is bad. Long live the unspoilt Brexit thread! 😉

I take full responsibility for buggering up things by posting something which apparently not everyone can agree on.

As has been pointed out several times by users and mods on various threads, it’s not the disagreeing that is the issue, it’s the manner of the disagreeing that spoils it for the rest of us

What are you talking about? No mod has told me that they don’t like the manner that I disagree. Where have you got that from?

Care to comment about Suella Braverman decision concerning justice for the Windrush Generation? Have you read the Guardian linked on the previous page?

Yes racism is an emotional issue for most people, and I have varying degree of tolerance towards it. My tolerance towards racism based on unthinking stereotyping is fairly high, often it’s unintended and caused by thoughtlessness. My tolerance for racism when it’s combined with hypocrisy is somewhat lower.

Would the leader of the Labour Party be more vocal if the issue here affected Jewish people? Based on his recent behaviour I think yes.

Call me an idealist but I reject all racism. Including against Jews, Asians, and people of African heritage. As my post on the previous page clearly point out.

Just to recap: “sources told the guardian” a couple of days ago that this govt is going to ditch some of its windrush inquiry response.

And some folks aren’t sufficiently outraged, including the labour front bench?

I predict that when (and if, but let’s face it when) this actually happens, rather than being something sources say will happen, they will be very outraged. And this will be a bigger story than a guardian “sources say”.

Everyone happy with that?

Ernie

Why do you say there is no racism against EU white folk?

Its clear that a large part of the brexit vote was exactly this.  Or are you confining that to government policy?  Brexit was largely a racist vote as all the research makes clear

Otherwise I totally agree with you

Edit: This six page thread is dedicated to Suella Braverman. I thought her recent decision concerning the Windrush Generation might be of interest. Apparently not particularly – my disappointment with Labour’s front bench over the issue gets more criticism than Braverman does.

No, it’s very interesting.

What’s not so interesting is you using it as a point scoring exercise against people who point out that the Brexit vote was based on racism.

Believe it or not, you are the one who decided to bring Brexit into this discussion. It would have been just as easy for you to not mention Brexit at all but you couldn’t help yourself. Just to remind you what you said:

Or is all the best anger and outrage reserved for brexit and FOM?

For someone who doesn’t like to talk about Brexit you do seem to love introducing the topic into discussions.

I am perfectly happy to talk about some people’s obsession with brexit, it’s on every bleedin political thread.

What I am reluctant to discuss is the pros and cons of question which was settled more than 6 years ago. Even back then it was impossible to have a sensible discussion about the subject – if you didn’t support the EU it wasn’t for any legitimate reasons but because you were stupid, racist, or a looney, or a combination of all three.

You might not agree with my opinion but I believe that there is a high degree of hypocrisy concerning racism and criticism of the Labour leadership. You won’t silence me.

Starmer is denounced in extraordinarily strong terms for alledgedly pandering to racists as a result of accepting the fact that the UK is no longer an EU member state.

But I get castigated for expressing my disappointment in Labour’s front bench for not being vocal enough in denouncing the truly appalling injustices meted out to black people of the Windrush Generation. Injustices so obviously unacceptable that previous Tory governments have been shamed into promising to rectify them.

I call that hypocrisy.

I am a white foreign born EU national I have never personally experienced serious racism in the UK. As the youngest I am the only one out of me and my siblings not to speak English with a foreign accent. My father spoke English with an extremely strong accent, as did my grandmother. And yet, unsurprisingly, as a white family in London we never experienced any consequential racism.

But some people want to focus on alledged racism against white people getting into ridiculous rants about it, whilst not having half the passion about racism against black UK residents.

There have been people who arrived to the UK as toddlers from the Caribbean 6 or 7 decades ago, and have spent a lifetime working, who have been denied NHS treatment because they couldn’t prove that they had a legal right to be in the UK.

I haven’t heard of a single similar case involving a white European.

IMO the single most racist aspect of the UK is its immigration and nationality laws. In or out of the EU does not make one iota difference to that fact. IMO

I am perfectly happy to talk about people’s obsession with brexit, it’s on every bleedin political thread.

It’s on this thread because you brought it up. At least have the decency to wait for someone else to bring it up before you start complaining people have brought it up.

But I get castigated for expressing my disappointment in Labour’s front bench for not being vocal enough in denouncing the truly appalling injustices meted out to black people of the Windrush Generation.

Nope, you got castigated for using the this issue to try to score points against people who say (on threads that aren’t this one) that Brexit was motivated by racism.

Everyone else agrees with you on everything else you are saying. You are not a special and unique snowflake when it comes to our feelings about this issue.

I haven’t heard of a single similar case involving a white European.

I have.

Pregnant Brit forced to prove nationality by NHS after taking Polish husband’s name

I also know of white europeans on the end of racist attacks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-56814292

You are lucky in living in london where racism against immigrants especially white ones is rare  Your experience is not universal

But I get castigated for expressing my disappointment in Labour’s front bench for not being vocal enough in denouncing the truly appalling injustices meted out to black people of the Windrush Generation.

Not seen any castigation of you and I agree with you,  its just a reflection of the modern labour party being scared of the racists that they won’t condemn it

Abbott has made a statement today on it

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/09/tories-never-sorry-windrush-suella-braverman

Shadow Home Secretary last Friday

5yrs since Windrush Scandal so awful that Tory Home Secretary resigned & successors promised radical change & implemention of Windrush report.

Now Sunak & Braverman ripping their promises to Windrush generation up.

On 75th Windrush anniversary. Shamefulhttps://t.co/ebb2Bo7fWg

— Yvette Cooper (@YvetteCooperMP) January 6, 2023

Shadow Foreign Secretary on Saturday

.@SuellaBraverman using the Windrush Generation as a political football is totally reprehensible. Backsliding on the recommendations after the scandalous way innocent black Britons were treated by the government is sick, cruel and debases the UK.https://t.co/jCLBGrE8kD

— David Lammy (@DavidLammy) January 7, 2023

using the this issue to try to score points

I didn’t post the Guardian link to “score points”. I posted it because it was, and is, relevant to the Suella Braverman thread.

Far from expecting an argument I expected that their would be a fairly unanimous opinion concerning how shameful Braverman’s decision was. There was no reference to brexit in my original post.

The response was somewhat disappointing. TJ agreed that it was appalling but, hey, what can you do, Tories are racists, and other person expressed disapproval. But the very first post was an attempt to ridicule me.

Contrast that with the anger directed at Starmer over brexit and accusations of him pandering to racists, it was obvious that I would make the link between the two. Not to “score points” but to expose the obvious inconsistencies.

It really is as if brexit is the only issue that matters. Don’t criticise the Labour front bench and their weak stand against racism unless the issue is brexit.

I have

There is absolutely no comparison. I said:

There have been people who arrived to the UK as toddlers from the Caribbean 6 or 7 decades ago, and have spent a lifetime working, who have been denied NHS treatment because they couldn’t prove that they had a legal right to be in the UK.

Your link isn’t even vaguely comparable.**

And I am aware of Lammy’s comments. I didn’t say that there had been no response from the Labour front bench, just that I was disappointed at the level of response. This latest development has been barely mentioned in the media, most people will be unaware of it, despite the fact that the Windrush scandal is a huge story that most people are aware of.

Firm promises and commitments are being quietly being shelved with the minimum of fuss.

And btw the central point of my original post was to highlight Braverman’s appalling decision, my disappointment in Labour’s lacklustre response was just a observation. It turns out that I might feel stronger about the issue than some people.

** A better comparison would be me. I came to the UK decades ago as a six year old and have worked here for a lifetime. There is absolutely zero chance that I will be denied NHS treatment when I go for my MRI scan on Friday. I’m not black and I didn’t come from the Caribbean.

This latest development has been barely mentioned in the media

Depressing, isn’t it.

First ones I found Ernie. anti east europen racism is there.  I can find plenty more

At the moment all we know about Bravermans things are leaked proposals.  When its actually published will we see more response?

I guess my reaction was because I am not surprised that tories are being racist.  I couldn’t loathe the tory party any more and you in the past have told me off for calling the tory party vile scum 🙂

Your point is basically valid tho.

the pros and cons of question which was settled more than 6 years ago

It wasn’t though, was it?

The vote was about that, but as pointed out,it only actually happened two years ago and it’s still not fully done and can’t be unless Norn Irn is absorbed into Republic Of. For just one. That’s before you get into making strikes illegal and all that nonsense

Or we could shake off the madness and grovel to Ursula von Leyen to please let us back in the club.