Suella! Braverman!

If members got to vote on it, Braverman would likely win id guess?

im not sure? I don’t actually know how many people I know are party members – but the very small number of people I have met who think she says anything sensible (never mind whether she’s a better leader than any alternative), I am sure are NOT Tory party members.

im in no way worried about her becoming leader before the next election – I’m certain that would ensure a Starmer victory.  I think British political parties are generally crap at picking leaders because they usually pick leaders who are liked by the highly political party members who have entrenched beliefs/ideology rather than picking a potential leader for the country who will be palatable to people who would never consider joining the party.

If members got to vote on it, Braverman would likely win id guess?

Depends who she is up against.  A right wing white candidate I doubt it. tho Mordunt is higher odds right now but given the way the membership have voted in the past a brown person who does not claim to be Christian?  I doubt it for all her hard right headbanging

The last post by Drac on the closed thread discussing the Palestine situation

… because, I would assume, people kept reigniting the same argument and it turned into a nightmare to moderate. This isn’t an uncommon scenario but it’s not censorship. Rather there’s only so long a moderator can play whack-a-mole before it gets tedious, some people just can’t take “please stop” as a response and see it as sport. Then others leap in at any opportunity to squeal about how they ‘can’t say anything anymore’ or similar rhubarb, which if actually true would mean that they wouldn’t be around to say it.

All the moderation team really want is for people to stop being nobs. Frankly I’m surprised I’ve lasted this long.

Nice to see that the right wing media outlets(GBnews,talk tv etc) are up in arms that their poster girl has been canned.

It’s like a double whammy of joyfulness 😀

Depends who she is up against. A right wing white candidate I doubt it.

The only credible right-wing Tory leadership candidates are Braverman, Badenoch, and Cleverley, unless you want to also throw Patel into the mix.

Any right-wing Tory Party member will be buggered come the next leadership election if they don’t like dark people.

For anyone who might be under the impression that our new Foreign Secretary’s racist credentials don’t quite match those of our recently departed Home Secretary:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-does-not-regret-his-racist-attack-on-sadiq-khan-says-ex-spin-doctor-a3360216.html

“The former PM caused outrage in the Commons when he accused the Mayor of London of repeatedly sharing a platform with an ISIS supporter.

The shameful ‘Go Home’ campaign

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/david-cameron-stoked-xenophobia-in-the-uk-says-council-of-eu

“David Cameron Stoked Xenophobia In The UK, Says Council Of Europe Report”

Right on cue: “Give ME attention, not Cameron!”

? NEW: Suella Braverman is threatening to release “damning evidence” about Rishi Sunak

[@hoffman_noa]

— Politics UK (@PolitlcsUK) November 14, 2023

One of Suella’s supporters (former Tory MEP David Campbell-Bannerman) is being interviewed on Five live and its gob-smacking to listen to him. They’re all absolutely nuts. He referred to yesterdays reshuffle as ‘a return to the social liberalism that we saw during the coalition’ and said that talking to backbenchers there is definite talk of another leadership election

He doubled down on Cruellas accusation of two tier policing, during which he accused peace protestors of all being terrorist sympathisers, then criticised the police for arresting… and this is a direct quote… ‘some rather boisterous football supporters’

Rather boisterous? Jesus wept! 😳

Brown person take an hour or a day if yiu must.  And try not get into tit fir tat arguement

I admit it is hard, but I think it’s too easy to descend into an egotistical game of  ‘I’m cleverer than you’, and it serves no-one, and in fact makes people look stupid. Just above, we have someone accusing another poster of ‘lying’, when the opposite is true. If you make such an accusation, you have to be able to back it up.

As for the original Palestine thread getting closed; that is a moderation decision I disagree with, I have to say. I feel it’s vital to have such conversations about this situation, because amongst all the willy-waving, it’s an opportunity for people to learn. And that’s what we should be doing right now, learning. I’m glad discussion about this horrific war has been allowed to continue on this thread at least.

Going back to Suella Braverman; whilst it is a small relief that she’s been sacked, the concern has to be just how easily she was able to goad the far-right into acting the way they did. The language and rhetoric she used was straight out of the fascist playbook, and will have been carefully planned and calculated to achieve maximum damage. Credit, then, to the hundreds of thousands who demonstrated peacefully and proved her wrong. She failed in her attempt to create a false narrative; the tory client media may parrot such, but the world has seen the truth now. Even the right wing press had to lead with the thuggery of the far-right. Braverman is, as mentioned before, an incredibly dangerous politician, and all efforts must be made to ensure she gets nowhere near power. What shocks me about this current tory government, is that just when you think they can’t get any nastier, they lower the bar even further. It’s truly disturbing just how far to the right this government has dragged this nation, and it’s up to all of us to drag it back the other way again.

One more thing; I can’t be alone in thinking that Gove’s confrontation at Victoria station was deliberately stage-managed; so many other ways he could have been sneaked in, yet he chose the most public way to arrive. Shows that the tories were so desperate to create that false narrative of the peace marchers, once it was clear things hadn’t gone their way, that they attempted that little stunt. Pathetic.

shes obviously stung that cameron has taken all her headlines

? NEW: Suella Braverman is deliberately delaying her "explosive" resignation letter to ensure it causes maximum damage to Rishi Sunak

[@thetimes]

— Politics UK (@PolitlcsUK) November 14, 2023

How can it be a resignation letter when she was sacked?

This HAS to end, surely?

Why?  this is the result of our pseudo democracy and its unwritten constitution that relies on our politicians being “good chaps”

This bunch are corrupt and venal and their only aim is to keep hold of wealth and power for them and their cronies.  there is zero desire to govern for the good of the country and that this was how this parliament would end has been obvious for years

Rather boisterous? Jesus wept!

Just a bit of bantz, wasn’t it? Can’t understand why they’ve arrested three of them already.

One more thing; I can’t be alone in thinking that Gove’s confrontation at Victoria station was deliberately stage-managed; so many other ways he could have been sneaked in, yet he chose the most public way to arrive.

I can’t believe I’m going to defend Gove… but… he has always travelled “normally” and attended public events without warning or staff. He’s no Sunak… he does try and travel the way the rest of us do. Candid photos of him travelling on trains used to be very common place on social media back when people were more interested in him.

How can it be a resignation letter when she was sacked?

She was very politely asked to resign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/19/suella-braverman-departs-as-uk-home-secretary-liz-truss

That was the 1st time she was booted out.

I can’t believe I’m going to defend Gove… but… he has always travelled “normally” and attended public events without warning or staff. He’s no Sunak… he does try and travel the way the rest of us do. Candid photos of him travelling on trains used to be very common place on social media back when people were more interested in him.

But on a day when hundreds of thousands of protestors were in central London, and particularly around the major train stations, it would have been far more advisable, not to mention a hell of a lot easier for the police etc, to sneak him in quietly by other means. Because from Victoria, you’ve still got to get him to wherever he’s going, by car I presume, and the streets are blocked. He claimed he was on his way home; could he really not have delayed his return by a few hours? Call me a cynic, but I’m going with media stunt. I think the hope was that he and his entourage would be attacked by a ‘violent hate mob’, and he’d have had to be protected by police, and therefore have a nice convenient anti-protest narrative created for him. As it turned out, it was clear from footage that he was heckled and that was about it. 

I can’t be alone in thinking that Gove’s confrontation at Victoria station was deliberately stage-managed

Of course it was. He knew exactly what to expect. At some point he would heard on news all the controversy surrounding armistice day and the huge crowds excepted to arrive from across the country.

I was also at Victoria Station on Saturday, was I surprised by the multitude of people there with placards and Palestinian flags? Of course not!

I was surprised to see people getting their prayer mats out and praying in the station though! But it made me proud to be a Londoner😎

There were also loads of groups of about half a dozen relaxed coppers chatting to people.

Michael Gove obviously knew what to expect including that it would a totally safe environment.

Yeah TBH, I think “Gove staged attack” is a bit of a stretch, I mean you can bend what he did into a conspiracy easily enough I guess, but “Man goes home by train and gets shouted at” is probably closer to the mark.

Because from Victoria, you’ve still got to get him to wherever he’s going, by car I presume, and the streets are blocked

Why presume that? Gove is a junior minister, it was the weekend, he (and other MPs and ministers) use public transport (and bikes) to get around, and all the roads in central London were blocked one way or another.

Plus he was probably off his tits like usual.

Just a bit of bantz, wasn’t it?

Keir Starmer probably thinks so. Being a fully signed up member of the gooner army with his Stone Island attire I’m sure it’s the sort of thing he’s seen many times without batting an eye lid. Wonder if he also has that silly exaggerated cockney accent when calling people a cant?

gobuchul Free Member
That was the 1st time she was booted out.

Ah yes, thanks!

I live and work in what would be a definite ‘Red Wall’ type place (Gateshead), and I’ve been surprised how much support Suella seems to have had.  Many of my colleagues seem to think she was hard done to and was just saying what everyone was thinking.  I get the impression that they are looking forward to Rishi being booted out one way or another and then Suella taking over.  I think ‘Stop the boats’ strikes a chord with them.  I try to avoid political discussions at work (many of my colleagues are Brexity types too), but I find the level of ignorance and gullibility staggering at times.

I think ‘Stop the boats’ strikes a chord with them.

I thought they liked boats coming in around those parts?

but I find the level of ignorance and gullibility staggering at times.

It is why the tory party still exists and continues to be in power most of the time, they rely on it.

Just a bit of bantz, wasn’t it?

Keir Starmer probably thinks so. Being a fully signed up member of the gooner army with his Stone Island attire I’m sure it’s the sort of thing he’s seen many times without batting an eye lid. Wonder if he also has that silly exaggerated cockney accent when calling people a cant?

Now i understand why binners keeps reusing that **** annoying signpost pic.

As for the original Palestine thread getting closed; that is a moderation decision I disagree with, I have to say. I feel it’s vital to have such conversations about this situation, because amongst all the willy-waving, it’s an opportunity for people to learn.

I wish it hadn’t been closed too, but IIRC Drac made it clear that one of the thread’s several closures happened because you threatened legal action.

I can understand the mod’s decision when several people (and I realise I’m one of them) made that thread hard to manage.

edit: I’ve pretty much stayed off that topic here since because I like this forum for not being like Twitter. I think that’s kind of the mods’ aim.

I thought they liked boats coming in around those parts?

…only if they have little fishies on them.

Why presume that? Gove is a junior minister, it was the weekend, he (and other MPs and ministers) use public transport (and bikes) to get around, and all the roads in central London were blocked one way or another.

He’ll have been picked up from Victoria in a car of some sort. Certain routes are always kept clear/made to be easily cleared, in case of emergencies etc. Many of the roads around Westminster were clear anyway. So he could just as easily have been driven, or even helicoptered in. Taking him in via a packed station kind of goes against common sense, as it just makes the security arrangements so much more difficult. My money is on a media stunt, just that it didn’t really work out as hoped.

Yeah TBH, I think “Gove staged attack” is a bit of a stretch, I mean you can bend what he did into a conspiracy easily enough I guess, but “Man goes home by train and gets shouted at” is probably closer to the mark.

The police/security services have long used agents provocateurs in large demos, to stir up trouble. I’ve witnessed this several times. It’s well documented that police use undercover agents deeply embedded in myriad political groups. They will also have had undercover agents and ‘spotters’ within the far-right mobs. So it’s not really a ‘stretch’ to suggest that Gove’s arrival by train, right at the end of a massive political demo (by people mostly opposed to the government, let’s face it), was quite possibly a media stunt. And it’s also quite possible that it didn’t work as planned because for once, the police weren’t playing ball. And that raises another issue; Braverman attempted to use the police for her own political ends, and fortunately the current Met commissioner doesn’t seem to be someone who can be so easily bent. But the police must remain politically neutral, this is vital for democracy. I know that in reality it isn’t seldom really the case, but it was reassuring to see the relatively relaxed stance taken by police at this demo, and their focus instead on the real threat of far-right hooliganism. They rightly concentrated their efforts on containing those despicable thugs, and did a pretty good job all round.

…only if they have little fishies on them.

But not those woke foreign fish. Only British fish from pure British sewage water.

Now i understand why binners keeps reusing that **** annoying signpost pic.

You don’t think Starmer’s views on the behaviour of his fellow gooners is relevant here? Binners thinks the views of a tory MP are relevant, so why not Starmer? He does after all identify himself with the football hooligan stereotype with the choice of his clothing so it’s not a complete stretch to imagine he might also share some of the other traits.

I wish it hadn’t been closed too, but IIRC Drac made it clear that one of the thread’s several closures happened because you threatened legal action.

Whoa, wait a minute. This is an absolute lie, I did nothing of the sort. And I can prove it. So please retract your baseless accusation, and apologise. This sort of bullshit is getting us nowhere.

‘You’re entitled to your own opinion, you’re not entitled to your own facts’

-James O’Brien (it may be from elsewhere, but I’ve only ever heard JoB say it)

So he could just as easily have been driven, or even helicoptered in.

This is Gove you’re talking about, not the king or Sunak. As someone else pointed out, Gove has always travelled with the plebs and to suggest some great conspiracy seems a little silly.

Sorry, but the Starmer as football hooligan image, along with adopted accent, is giving me a good chuckle.

So it’s not really a ‘stretch’ to suggest that Gove’s arrival by train, right at the end of a massive political demo

I don’t think he was on a train at all. I believe that he was being driven back to London from his constituency but chose to get out and walk because the roads were blocked.

Presumably he knew exactly why the roads were blocked and he couldn’t have been surprised when demonstrators recognised him and started a chanting “shame on you!”.

Did he really expect them to ignore him? One thing that is certain is that he obviously wasn’t concerned about his own safety.

Presumably he didn’t buy into this “hate march” nonsense.

Gove’s walkabout was purely performative in the same vein as Rees-moog taking his kids to parliament was at the height of the Brexit debate/negotiations. Both are slimy little ****.

and John Gummer eating a burger (which his 4 yr old declined) during the CJD episode. Another small, but perfectly formed slimy little ****.

Okay, let’s just discount the idea that he went to a train station to catch a train… I mean, I despise the man, so don’t really care what you want to project onto him.

I wish it hadn’t been closed too, but IIRC Drac made it clear that one of the thread’s several closures happened because you threatened legal action.

There was no threats of legal action that I saw and I was on the thread the whole time.  It was closed because of baseless slurs being made that were potentially libellous and the mods could not be arsed with dealing with a messy thread like that.  They asked folk to play nice and the slurs continued. The mods are volunteers and to spend their day continually monitoring a thread with totally entrenched views where a couple of posters continually made libellous slurs despite warnings?  Close the thread.  Its a shame folk could not play nice but thats the way it goes

Okay, let’s just discount the idea that he went to a train station to catch a train…

Come on Kelvin, you know the score. These threads are not for discussion of different points of view, they’re for slagging off whoever is in the subject line, and if you don’t want to indulge in that you can go somewhere else.