Suella! Braverman!

Perfect day to hide this behind the endless discussion of who got what job and what we think of them.

I don’t think they want to hide that. I won’t just be “small boats” it’ll also be “lazy workshy spongers” that will be the basis of their attempts to get all their core vote out come an election. When money is tight for those in work (or drawing pensions) then reducing benefits (for those out of work of working age) is a campaign strategy.

I bet his declaration in the ‘members interests’ section is going to make interesting reading?

Doesn’t he lobby on behalf of a lot of Chinese companies? Ian Duncan Smiths head is probably about to explode

BBC now reporting that Margaret Thatcher’s re-animated corpse was seen speaking to Graham Brady of the 1922 committee.

Strong and Stable. From today’s FT…

Home secretary

2010-2016 — Theresa May
2016-2018 — Amber Rudd
2018-2019 — Sajid Javid
2019-2022 — Priti Patel
Sept 6 2022 — Oct 19 2022 — Suella Braverman
Oct 19 2022 — Oct 25 2022 — Grant Shapps
Oct 25 2022 — November 13 2023 — Suella Braverman
November 13 2023 — James Cleverly

Foreign secretary

2014-2016 — Philip Hammond
2016-2018 — Boris Johnson
2018-2019 — Jeremy Hunt
2019-2021 — Dominic Raab
2021-2022 — Liz Truss
Sept 2022 — Nov 2023 — James Cleverly
November 13 2023 — David Cameron

Chancellor

2010-2016 — George Osborne
2016-2019 — Philip Hammond
2019-2020 — Sajid Javid
2020-2022 — Rishi Sunak
July 2022 — Sept 2022 — Nadhim Zahawi
Sept 2022 — Oct 2022 — Kwasi Kwarteng
Oct 2022 — Jeremy Hunt

Cameron as foreign sec is just absurd tho but he maybe will be able to be vaguely sensible in negotiations with the EU

surely more to do with having an experienced senior politician with at least some respect from other countries in the post in the midst of: Ukraine, Russia, Israel and Palestine etc?  But perhaps also an olive branch to the less extreme parts of the party who might just be who keep the nutters under control.

He was directly responsible for Brexit in the first place and then the protracted and largely bitter negotiations with the EU (in which they walked all over us).

Directly responsible might be going too far!  He made a massive miscalculation but the outcome he expected was the opposite one and supposed to put the issue to bed for a generation.  He hadn’t realised just how gullable a third of the electorate were.  It’s obvious to us now – but bear in mind at that point nobody had made Borris PM!

not sure how you can blame him for the eu negotiations – he quit as soon as the shit hit the fan.  The issue was the muppets who succeeded him pursuing some idealistic dream brexit rather than seeking compromises.  I don’t think the EU walked all over us – they acted exactly like he and every remainer predicted because to believe otherwise means you have a massively misplaced understanding of the power balance.

 I don’t think the EU walked all over us – they acted exactly like he and every remainer predicted because to believe otherwise means you have a massively misplaced understanding of the power balance.

This. And there was also a misunderstanding that the EU is a rules-based organisation, that the rules you’ll accept will dictate the access you get, and that it wasn’t going to make exceptions for a (frequently awkward) member who had just flounced out.

BBC now reporting that Margaret Thatcher’s re-animated corpse was seen speaking to Graham Brady of the 1922 committee.

If I were in any way talented with graphics I would make a picture of Thatcher’s corpse as the God Emperor of Mankind sitting upon the Golden Throne maintaining the Good Friday agreement with the last remnants of her Psyker powers.

Sorry, Warhammer 40K references.  But it feels like the day for it.

So everyone who voted remain thinks he’s a **** for obvious reasons and everyone who voted to leave also think he’s a **** because he was one of the ‘liberal elite’ who sabotaged their glorious Brexit?

Righto!

So everyone who voted remain thinks he’s a **** for obvious reasons and everyone who voted to leave also think he’s a **** because he was one of the ‘liberal elite’ who sabotaged their glorious Brexit?

Righto!

They’ve accepted the Red Wall has gone. Now they are just trying to maintain the Blue Wall which I think this appointment is for.  Although they might find Cameron isn’t as popular in those Blue Wall seats as he used to be.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/lib-dems-seize-on-bravermans-unpopularity-to-win-over-blue-wall

Having attended the march on Saturday, it is a small relief to see Braverman sacked today. The main march was incredible for many reasons, no least it’s sheer size, which shows the level of support for Gazans and the level of opposition to not only the actions of the Israeli regime, but also our government. Regardless of what the British press might say, the overwhelming global narrative is one of a peaceful and respectful march, in direct contrast to the shameful scenes involving the far right thugs whipped into hatred by the (former) Home Secretary. One thing that was very noticeable was just how little police involvement there was on the main march; there was clearly no desire from them to provoke the crowd in any way, as has been seen on countless other demos in central London. There were a few young idiots letting off fireworks later on, but they were not representative of the majority. Neither were antisemitic posters and banners that were reported; I personally didn’t see anything like that, but I’m not claiming they didn’t exist. I did encounter one ‘freelance journalist’ who was seen photographing/filming banners and placards that could possibly be misrepresented as being anti-Israel, and when confronted, he tried denying this, but it was pretty obvious. As were the police ‘spotters’, but they’re always at demos. By far the most offensive thing I witnessed was a group of far-right thugs outside a pub in Victoria, shouting racist abuse and slogans. I would question the decision to allow them to gather at that particular place, given that the police had instructed various groups to avoid any areas the march was going through. But they were largely ignored and people just walked right past them. There were many, many families with young children on the march, and the demographic was very diverse indeed. I felt it was a very positive effort, and one which will hopefully send a strong message to the rest of the World. Once again, London stood up to denounce oppression and violence against innocents. I’m so pleased so see so many people from the rest of the UK attending too; if we take the official police (under)estimation to be around half the actual figure at least, then well over half a million people marched to say ‘not in my name’. 

As for the far-right; they did exactly what Braverman wanted them to, but exposed themselves for the racist thugs they really are. Nonsense about ‘defending the monuments’ has been exposed as a total sham, and they’ve been denounced by pretty much everyone. Even Brave Little Tommy was denounced by many of his own, for scuttling away early with his tail between his legs. The small crowd of thugs I saw at Westminster as I was leaving to go home, were just a bunch of pissed up and coke-fuelled morons, being kettled by police. I feel sorry for these people. What a waste of a life to go through it with so much fear and hate in your soul. 

But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism. There were a number of ignorant people on the march, and conflating ‘Zionism’ and Judaism is wrong. From my own experience,I know that a lot of young Asian Muslims can be very ignorant and naive, but the key is education. I hope that from this, more conversations can be had, and more minds opened. As a Muslim, I feel it is my duty to show solidarity with Jewish people, and minorities everywhere, because only through solidarity can we have the power to resist fascism. 

And fascism is coming. Braverman is just the start. 

Looking forward to Have I got News for you on Friday

We really are through the looking glass.
Osborne to make a come back?
I can only think that cameron needs both the money and a boost to his self-worth.
He won’t be held to scrutiny in the commons but is likeky to get a hard time in the lords – here’s hoping.
This will be a divisive appointment with tory MPs but, IMO, will be popular in the party.
It would be re-assuring if a high level government minister had a demonstrable record of sound decision making.
cameron doesn’t have that – failing to understand or not caring about the consequences of austerity, brexit referendum, Greensill.
His cowardly decision to resign immediately after the referendum after saying he woukd stick with it.
Part of his new responsibility will be to deliver new trade deals; I predict dismal failure.
Difficult to see him having much credibility in any of the current war zones.

But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism.

Why “more than ever”? You claimed not to have seen any anti-semitic posters and banners on the demo.

I didn’t either, despite being there from the start to the finish and witnessing tens of thousands of placards and banners. Nor did I hear any anti-semitic chants, despite being in the presence of hundreds of thousands of people.

I will always oppose the stupidity and destructive nature of racism, and no doubt a few individuals in a crowd of hundreds of thousands struggle to make a distinction between Jews and Zionists (the worse offenders are Zionists themselves) but I am more than ever convinced that claims of anti-semitism are grossly exaggerated and barely figure on the radar.

Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.
The first part – yeah, meaningless sound bite which we’ve all heard so many times…to absolutely no effect.
As for ‘protect the British people’ wtf does that mean?

I think its time, once again, to leave the last word on our new Foreign Secretary to that sage of our era, Danny Dyer….

SPOT. ON.

good article here about how unpopular Braverman was in the Blue Wall

I reckon polling data from these areas is partly behind cameron coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/lib-dems-seize-on-bravermans-unpopularity-to-win-over-blue-wall

Nice post brownperson.

Why “more than ever”?

I think brownperson’s penultimate paragraph covers it.

Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.

When the Allies were advancing on Berlin and the world was collapsing all around them the Nazis, in an act of hopeless desperation, hung onto the belief that a German wonder-weapon would materialise and save them.

“Stop The Boats” is the wunderwaffe that the Tories desperately want to believe will save them from electoral annihilation.

Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.

So he’ll be applying foreign aid, committing troops to UN deployments and helping the nations people are fleeing to become more stable? All the while committing further resources to combat people traffickers?

Or are we sticking with shithole internment camps and Rwanda?

Another useless turd. And as a sidebar makes way too much of his unspectacular service in the Army reserve. Absolute whopper of a man.

Why “more than ever”? You claimed not to have seen any anti-semitic posters and banners on the demo.

Because Jewish people are suffering backlash for this war, as ignorant people conflate the actions of a government with an entire race and culture. I’m seeing loads of Star of David and Swastika combos on material posted on social media, and I’m hearing quite a bit of anti-Semitic rhetoric when out and about. Mostly low-level stuff, but there is so much ignorance and misinformation out there that must be challenged. Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas. Disproportionality aside, Hamas have tortured and murdered so many innocent people, including peace activists and non-Jews. Women were gang-raped. Children executed. Let’s not ignore this. Without wanting to rake over old ground, or apportion blame or whatever, such actions must not be conveniently brushed under the carpet. Youths with Hamas bandanas etc might think they’re being edgy and cool, but you cannot condemn the actions of one side without condemning similar on all sides. I read that police were anticipating a convoy of cars with young men holding Palestinian flags, that were planning to drive through Jewish communities in London. I’ve witnessed such in the past; people in those communities are no more responsible for what is happening in Gaza now, than I am for the actions of our politicians. Like; we don’t accept certain right-wing elements conflating Hamas with all Palestinians, so likewise we have to challenge similar towards Jews, when we see it.

“Stop The Boats” is the wunderwaffe that the Tories desperately want to believe will save them from electoral annihilation.

Guessing they feel is is holding a lot of votes for them.  In reality it makes little difference to people lives.

Does one boat a day coming or 100 boats a day coming make any difference to my life and would I even be able to notice it – No.

Is it awful that it is happening for those involved – Yes, but that is not why the tories are so obsessed with it is it.

Not read the rest of this, but was she setup as the fall women to allow changes to happen or was she really that much of a loose cannon?

Cleverly’s first ‘promises’ – stop the boats and protect the British people.

FFS more of that old Tory BS eh. “no don’t look at us, it’s not us to blame, look over there! Them! It’s their fault!”

Protect us from this bunch of Tories more like.

Braverman was probably only sacked for undermining Sunak, the messages won’t change.

Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas.

It is constantly pointed out that the UK sees Hamas as a terrorist organization so goes without saying they will be doing very shitty things.  Israel, as far as I am aware, have not been labelled a terrorist organization and even worse we are supportive of what they are doing.  If any other “valid” country was doing the same other countries would not just be sitting and watching.  Okay, maybe they would but they wouldn’t be giving them support.

as ignorant people conflate the actions of a government with an entire race and culture.

Racist people in being ignorant shocker

Also, not enough people are condemning Hamas

That’s one of the main issues here, people think it’s binary, there are three entities at play in this conflict

The IDF – directed by the Israeli government
The Palestinian People.
Hamas.

The Palestinians are sandwiches between two sides having a kinetic ding dong and dying hand over fist as a result.

Hamas give zero **** about the Palestinian People, the IDF want to kill Hamas and if the Palestinians get in the way it’s unavoidable ‘collateral damage’.

Women were gang-raped. Children executed.

So you have switched from what was allegedly happening on pro-Palestinian demos to what has allegedly happened in Israel. That’s quite a leap. Still, it is a forbidden topic on STW.

Do we now need a James! Cleverley! thread?

was she setup as the fall women to allow changes to happen

You mean like bringing back a washed-up prime minister from the past?

Edit: I am looking forward to Liz Truss’s triumphant return to frontline politics.

If any other “valid” country was doing the same other countries would not just be sitting and watching.

This isn’t true at all. Other countries have recently sat and watched as civilians were cut off from basic supplies, ethnically cleansed, and killed in Ethiopia, Yemen, Central African Republic. That’s not to say they should sit and do it again, but Israel’s position here is not unique.

Braverman was probably only sacked for undermining Sunak

Poor woman. I doubt she’s been this upset since she was unable to fly a few dozen foreigners off to Rwanda or stick a whole load of desperate asylum seekers onto a disease-riddled barge.

The Palestinians are sandwiches between two sides having a kinetic ding dong and dying hand over fist as a result. 

Hamas give zero **** about the Palestinian People, the IDF want to kill Hamas and if the Palestinians get in the way it’s unavoidable ‘collateral damage’.

Yes I agree. Hamas’ leaders are extremists, whereas most Palestinians are much more liberal. Many are quite secular. Hamas’ leadership are a group whose aims are simply to wipe out Israel and kill all Jews living there. It’s complicated though by the fact that as no actual democracy exists in Palestine (because it isn’t allowed by Israel to engage in any form of democratic process), Hamas have risen up in a vacuum, and offer resistance. This is an inevitable consequence of suppressing democracy, and a situation engineered by those who wish for a perpetuation of war. The same exists in Israel; whilst there is a continuous state of fear, so belligerent right-wing governments will prevail. 

Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?

But one thing that I am now determined more than ever to challenge when I see it, is anti-Semitism. There were a number of ignorant people on the march, and conflating ‘Zionism’ and Judaism is wrong. From my own experience,I know that a lot of young Asian Muslims can be very ignorant and naive, but the key is education. I hope that from this, more conversations can be had, and more minds opened. As a Muslim, I feel it is my duty to show solidarity with Jewish people, and minorities everywhere, because only through solidarity can we have the power to resist fascism.

What a honourable sentiment @brownperson, I wish there were more people that spoke this sensibly about the issue.

Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?

The PLO took the, er, Sinn Féin route (sorry if that’s a crass comparison) and lost out at the ballot box because of it. When people lead desperate lives, and/or live in fear, the hardliners have the means to build on their support. See also the Israeli Labour party losing influence and power (not to mention key politicians being assassinated) in Israel, and the rise and control of the country by the war hungry far right.

According to the Daily Mash, Braverman was told that being sacked is a lifestyle choice.

According to the Daily Mash, Braverman was told that being sacked is a lifestyle choice.

They’re on good form today but I guess they’ve got an absolute ton of material to go at!

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/sunak-a-typical-bloody-ungrateful-immigrant-says-braverman-20231113242407

Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?

No.

no actual democracy exists in Palestine (because it isn’t allowed by Israel to engage in any form of democratic process), Hamas have risen up in a vacuum, and offer resistance.

This is totally backward. Hamas’s position was strengthened as a result of Fatah ineptitude and corruption, and it was elected in contested and democratic-ish elections. Hamas and Fatah then fought a civil war, Fatah was expelled from Gaza, and in response Fatah cancelled democratic elections. The PNA is not internally democratic because it doesn’t suit the Palestinian ruling class (or, perhaps, western powers) for it to be democratic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Palestinian_legislative_election