Mrs Doris is thinking of applying for a public sector job, and it says it uses ‘success profiles’ as part of the application process.

Success Profiles are the new recruitment framework used within the Civil Service.

Anyone come across this before? Any tips on what to look out for?

Civil Service Success Profiles and Behaviours Made Easy (2020 Ultimate Guide)

She had better get up to speed and make sure she’s singing from the same hym sheet regarding blue sky thinking and helicopter views. Don’t forget to touch base or she’ll be at risk being out of the loop…

You might want to peel the onion before commencing a deep dive on this one.

It’s a rebranding of the old competences framework. It can now draw on ‘strengths’ and ‘experience’ rather than just the old pre-prepared statements of competence. But in reality, most recruitments seem to rely on ‘behaviours’ as the rebranded competences. I’d imagine is not as hellishly corporate as some private sector recruitment, but still involves bullshit buzzwords.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/success-profiles

At least they give you a guide to explain how it all works. Good luck!

In summary, it’s all utter bollocks and inconsistently applied. Some areas will not even look at an application unless you’ve reworded your entire life into their arcane framework, others will be more or less the same as applying for jobs in the real world.

Best advice is to find someone on the inside to give you a steer as to how the area in question works.

🤣 this is why I haven’t applied for a job since 2014. It’s all my worst nightmare.

Bloody hell. Not changed jobs for 15 years.

I’m in HE and we go down the route of an interview and a skills test (which is basic). The interview is the best way, as there are usually 3 of us doing it, and unless we are all happy, we don’t appoint. It worked very well recently, as I finally got a ‘right hand person’ in my role, and she is great. She only had 3 months working with us before lockdown, so it’s all been remote since.

Good luck to the ‘boss’.

I hate doing interviews – I know I’m good at what I do but I don’t think I always show this in interview situations.

That sort of company bollocks interview process would turn me off applying if I’m honest.

Telephone interview with some solid tech questions and a bit of chat to weed out the chancers, then a face to face to see if the person knows what they’re doing, can do the job, has skills that are needed in the role, and to make sure they would fit into the team. Job jobbed.

It’s the civil service attempt to modernise its recruitment process. As other say, it’s dependent on who’s recruiting as to how much they follow it or regress to the utterly hellish core competencies which reward those who learn the system. I’m not bitter. Honest.

Anyway if she’s going through CS Jobs then the add should include guidance re how to structure her answers.

Is it just me or does this seem like an experiment in how to get Dunning-Kruger to bite you on the arse both ways.
Highly competent, experienced, knowledgeable, qualified candidates will tend to down play their strengths and level of success at each stage of their careers. Loudmouthed blaggers will spin every disaster their ignorance, bluster and pigheaded refusal to acknowledge reality has caused into the triumph it is on their own minds, and you will end up with a civil service that looks like the current cabinet.

This is my understanding of the system.

It’s a dark science, some people get it and are promoted but not necessarily the best person for the job.

Read the “experience required box” carefully and tailor your answers to make sure you tick all the boxes.

I like to try and write a paragraph for a good example and then make that paragraph in to 2 or 3 that cover different points. It makes marking it easier when they tick off your scores. When I’ve finished I write next to each box which paragraph has covered each point. Try and cover as many as you can or you will set sifted out.

They are getting lots of applications so only taking the highest scores. They are also doing video recorded interviews for the next stage.

I recently described the process as applying for a job running a bike shop but not once mentioning bikes, repairs or ctech in the application but getting the job in front of qualified bike mechanics that did.

Having a strong example is key. It doesn’t have to be work related as long as its written correctly, for example you could run a scouts or girl guides, you could say how you organise, manage, collaborate, deal with stakeholders, improve performance etc. It helps to get in buzz words, like:

I identified this issue, this is what I did and how and this was the result. Always try and quantify the outcome. For example I reduced the sub price by 50%, increased attendance by 30% and overall profit by 10% or increased the diversity of the group by 30% etc.

The government is looking for your strengths. It believes it can teach you the specific skills you require for the job if you are the right person.

This helps them recruit from all aspects of society. Once you get your head around it they are one of the fairest, equal opportunity employers in the UK and apart from the wages not being as good as they used to be (too many 0.5% pay rises) they are a great employer to work for with fantastic HR policies. The problems come when you have bad managers that don’t follow the guidance but you get that in any company.

Good luck

@riksbar

Highly competent, experienced, knowledgeable, qualified candidates will tend to down play their strengths and level of success at each stage of their careers. Loudmouthed blaggers will spin every disaster their ignorance, bluster and pigheaded refusal to acknowledge reality has caused into the triumph it is on their own minds

This Is so true. I know people who have applied for jobs saying they turned water into wine and fed 5000 people with 3 fish. They get asked about it in an interview and as long as you convince the panel you are telling the truth they never question it. They will never go to your line manager to check and once you’ve got the next grade bingo! Civil servants don’t tend to get sacked for incompetence, they usually get moved on instead.

If you get a manager that’s done 10 jobs in 10 years at the same grade you know your in for a bad time but they are probably good at helping you write your strength based applications.

Most already been said. The Dunning Kruger thing has existed in the public and private sectors in the 30+ years I’ve been working, so nothing new there!

Lots of guidance on CS jobs to help.

One big change I saw the last time I (successfully!) went through it is the new snappy answers section of the interview. Rather than just repeating your speech about how great you are at hitting the buzzword target, they hit you with a few rapid fire random questions – are you a leader, can you do X or y and so on. You have to think on your feet and I think it works better at filtering those who have got on just by playing the game

It’s the same old CS stuff with new names and not that complicated. Read the question and answer it using the framework for the grade as a guide, don’t waffle, use STAR, I not We, etc.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/717275/CS_Behaviours_2018.pdf

Spent five hours doing telephone interviews for CS NCA jobs yesterday. We don’t have a snappy answer section in our interviews – thank god.

It’s not that complicated, read the info, you then know what they want, remember this is just the framework on what the CS should be looking for, and what the candidate should be focusing on when providing information.

In reality most job applications are CV based these days, which is a lot easier than previously, which meant looking at Core and Functional competences, and then trying to work out what it meant and how you can fit your work history into 250 words.

Again, this is about how well you can put your CV together, and if they request ‘achievements’ or examples, then make sure they’re in something like a STAR format as stated above, and remember it’s about you, not the team you were in or your current companies performance, a CV and interview really is I, I, I. If the application asks for behaviours, then read the examples, and fit your words and history into that style, at sift those assessing the CV and supporting statements will be focused around the job advert and the candidates information, they will not generally be reading the brochure on CS behaviours or success profiles, yes they will have the brochure, but in several dozen sifts of CV’s i have focused on the evidence provided. This does bring up another point though, it really is about the assessor and how they carry out sifts and interviews, same as everywhere, there are good and bad assessors and interviewers, if you or your wife do not pass sift or interview, then ask for feedback and you may get some good information on what to do next time.

@agree I don’t think they ask you to attach a cv. In fact the last time I looked it specifically said do not attach a cv. I think that’s the whole point of success profiles.

The CS forms I’ve seen have a job history and qualifications section, unless qualification on a specific role is a requirement these sections play no part in selection for interview or interviews. CVs aren’t asked for or wanted. I’ve been short listing, sifting and interviewing over last few years for CS roles and have been reading the brochure on CS behaviours or success profiles as have the other panel members

Surprised to see people defending the success profile approach. For perspective, I work in a part of the civil service that binned this approach in favour of just using cvs like yknow.. normal people.

Part of the evidence used to justify that situation was the statistics on applications started but not completed. The numbers were something like for every 10 people who started an application, only 2 would finish it.

The numbers were something like for every 10 people who started an application, only 2 would finish it.

The last application I started for a private sector consultancy I didn’t finish, lost the will to live part way through the form and then someone else offered me a job, so I took that instead.

Sifted and scored about 40 CS applications in the last few weeks. CV is invited in summary (basically have you done a few jobs that are relevant or at least show that you’ve done something that involved pay since getting your 2.1 at Oxbridge).

The personal statement is where you should reference your interest in the roles and at least an awareness of the Department’s priorities. Show some passion for Christ’s sakes. This bit is the most important.

The bits where you have to give an example of where you have demonstrated the required skill is the bit that confuses people. Keep it simple. Anyone who uses any bullshit management phrases can expect to be weeded out as a tosser.

In summary, remember it’s a real person reading it who is imagining you in their team. Unless you get someone from capita doing it for 1000 applicants in which case it’s anyone’s guess.

I like how they extol the virtues of being yourself but then caution you to do so only to a certain extent, and choose carefully what you reveal so as to not give a wrong answer. Well I’d **** that up for sure.

It’s the civil service attempt to modernise its recruitment process. As other say, it’s dependent on who’s recruiting as to how much they follow it or regress to the utterly hellish core competencies which reward those who learn the system.

With the old core competencies thing it seemed the approach was best work of fiction wins.
The site I was on there also seemed to be a ‘black market’ in competency trading – not helped selections being made by one above and two at grade for any post. They seemed to have gone very much into the rabbit hole of we know what we like and we like what we know in terms of statements.

Sounds awfully familiar!

So this is based on abilities, behaviour, technical, strengths and experience?

The kind of things any interviewer would be looking for in any normal job interview, and should have been doing for years now?

Haven’t they just reinvented the wheel? And put it on a wheel shaped diagram?

Slounds hideous.

Another example of shifting the decision making to a system, rather than a person.

This way, when the person who smartly games the system, says and does all the righ things during the selection process, ends up being a complete doofus when behind the desk it’s not he fault of the selection panel.

this is why I haven’t applied for a job since 2014. It’s all my worst nightmare.

Lightweight – me not since 1989, mind you I’ve got eff all advice to give to my son as he desperately seeks his first graduate job so there are some downsides

I work in the Civil Service with some bloody brilliant people – the application process seems to work pretty well from where I’m standing. I am fairly close to the centre though FWIW.

thanks for all the tips! Much appreciated.

Applying for a job is such a long process these days…. still, needs must etc.

I also recruit in the civil service. My advice is to read the instructions carefully. I am stunned how many clearly qualified and experienced people don’t understand what “essential criteria” means!

And if you think you are too good, smart, valuable or whatever for the process then you have failed the first attitude test.

If you get the interview then you can probably do the job, the interview is to find out about how you work, your approach, emotional intelligence etc.

Study the process, answer the questions honestly, tell us how and why, not just what.

Good luck!