Hi – I want to order a hand built wheel set for the gravel bike – 650b – probably Hope RS4 / DT Swiss 531 – not sure whether to go for 28 or 32 though – any advice please. I’m about 78kg and the gnar factor is always low 🙂

4 spokes weigh about 30gm and the 32 is significantly stronger.

I built a set of hope Hubs on to some Mavic rims years ago with 28 spokes on a 6″ travel yeti sb66, weigh more than you and not the most finesse of riders.
Get them well built and I don’t think you’ll have a problem.

I like the symmetry of 8 groups of 4. 7 groups makes my brain itch – but that’s probably just me.

4 spokes weigh about 30gm and the 32 is significantly stronger.

I call BS, prove it! 4 spokes will not be ‘significantly’ weaker than 32. Go on, show me the science behind your ‘opinion’.

The GR531 weights 500g, so no lightweight rim and with a semi-aero profile should be reasonably stiff – as DT also make it in 24 hole, a 28 hole should be plenty strong enough. If you were planning some sort of mega-expedition ride, then 32 hole would be a better insurance policy. A well-build 28 hole rim will be stronger than a poor build 32 hole without question.

The rear wheel carries more weight, and isn’t as strong.
So go for 28 front, 32 rear. Or 32 front, 36 rear if you want it tougher.

The wheels on my ebike are 28fr 32rr.
I weigh 20 stone (about 125kg)
No issues in 3 years.
You’ll be reet.
Edit: go for 28fr 32rr.

I reckon that with a decently strong rear rim- these days, anything decent except from really lightweight XC kit- it makes little odds. And if you’re being weight conscious then that little bit of weight is definitely better put into rims than spokes.

However, 32h hubs and rims are easier to come by and to sell, so that’s what pretty much everything I have is.

The rear wheel carries more weight, and isn’t as strong.
So go for 28 front, 32 rear. Or 32 front, 36 rear if you want it tougher.

Again calling BS. Prove it. Opinion isn’t fact! Go on. I bikepack on 24 hole and 28 hole wheels without an issue. Let’s see the science.

Everything Northwind says.

There’s plenty of maths and analysis out there on the strengths of you want to look but 32h is simply easier to live with and the weight differences aren’t big enough to concern most people.

Northwind +1

With the caveat:

Unless there’s bargains to be had. As pointed out 36 spokes are negligibly heavier in the real world, but frequently you find 36h hubs going cheap. Same with rims, although more often it seems to be 28h rims that are cheaper.

There’s at least one online shop selling Hope Pro4 hubs for £110 in 36h, if I didn’t already have 32h rims I’d be buying a set of those.

DT sell so many 28h wheelsets (and rather good ones at that) I don’t think I’d be overly worried about finding 28h rims but it is true that 32h with J bend spokes is the path of least hassle

Great – thanks for the replies – much appreciated

Mine are 24f and 28r Sapim d-light with Sapim Poly Ax Ali nipples on Hope RS4 and Light Bicycle 36mm rims. I’m an 85-90kg biffer these days and they’re just fine. Obviously I’m now waiting for them to spontaneously explode.

The rear wheel carries more weight, and isn’t as strong.

Again calling BS. Prove it

If you can’t see that then there would be no point trying to convince you to change your opinions…

The rear wheel is bound to be weaker because it’s dished more.
I don’t know how much weaker, but that is the generally perceived wisdom.
I occasionally bikepack on my Ebike, (28fr 32rr), i weigh 125 kg.
I haven’t ridden any more than 32 spokes for decades.
I have a road bike, its 20fr, 24rr with radial spokes on the non drive side, obviously im not gonna be going rad on that or anything, but I’ve never had to true them up.
Wheels are stronger than most people think.
Even cheap crap wheels are generally ok for normal riding.
Edit: having said that, modern wheels have wider hubs (bolt through, and then boost which are even wider) this will significantly increase strength for 2 reasons, 1:triangulation, they are wider, 2:as a result of the increased width, there is less of a difference in tension between the two sides.
So it may not be as clear cut as it was in the 90s that the front is stronger.

I think op you’re finding spoke count is a rather contentious point. For me it often comes to cost and availability as well as out and strength. Hence why most of my wheels are hand built 32 spokes front and rear. Would have taken 28 at the front and 32 at the rear but they were either more expensive or less available.

I’ll shortly be in the look out for some new wheels for cross/gravel and it seems that there is a good choice of 28 spoke wheelsets about from reputable brands at a decent weight, rim profile and cost. So it comes down to availability. I quite fancy a set of the Shimamo GRX wheels but can’t seem to see many about so will probably get a pair of DT-Swiss at 1600g a pair.

Sheldon Brown did a good article about low spoke count wheels, I think it’s still relevant although he’s been dead a while (RIP Sheldon). He basically says that they need stronger rims so they have essentially moved the weight saved on spokes and put it in the rim where you don’t want it. Also if a spoke broke the wheel can seriously taco as the other spokes can’t share the load as well as a wheel with more spokes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Whatever you do, don’t ask if plain gauge or butted spokes are best (I prefer plain gauge for singlespeed and butted for geared bikes but don’t tell anyone)

For me it often comes to cost and availability as well as out and strength. Hence why most of my wheels are hand built 32 spokes front and rear.

Thus for me too. We have a few bikes between us so it is handy to have compatible spares in the shed. Only thing I would add is don’t go for alloy nipples. Hateful things if you ever need to true the wheel

It used to be 32 front, 40 rear, on the basis of no more spokes than you need and no less then you need.

Bearing in mind that in those days rims were single wall and therefore much less stiff than modern.

There’s plenty examples of low spoke count wheels being perfectly adequate though.

For my own wheels I still build 36 hole only, 3 cross, doublebutted, although it’s getting harder to get 36 hole hubs and rims.

It’s obvious that 28 is weaker than 32 or 36. But the question is, is 28 strong *enough* ?

I’m 90kg and I’m going to say yes based on my experience of running 28 and fewer. Especially on a gravel bike without gnar.

Sheldon Brown did a good article about low spoke count wheels

It’s weird that he argues that there’s no real weight penalty for a higher spoke count, but *also* that if you have the same number of spokes front and rear then the front is heavier than it needs to be.

Not weird at all, the front wheel is inherently stronger and also takes half the weight of the rear (as above).

If you think Sheldon’s views on spoke count is contentious wait until you read about his views on not cleaning or lubing new chains 🤯