Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Some more anti cycling driving and road rage.
  • Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    In September I was leading a group of 10 children on a bike ride around local lanes. I had an 18yr old assistant leader with me as well. The group varied from 9 to 15 years old.

    On 25km loop we have about 1km on a faster A-road, just by the David Stirling monument into Doune.

    As the junction onto the faster road has bends each side, I set the leader and group off while I stood with bike across our lane, hand up ✋

    A car came around the corner, slowed to almost a stop. Just as the last two boys set off next to me, the car accelerated past me. So close I thought I was going to be run over, and close enough that I could bang the window.

    At this point I genuinely thought they were going to flatten the kids.

    The car stopped, driver got out, and much swearing and shouting ensued about banging his window and bikes shouldn’t be in his way. I just kept repeating “you were driving at children” – greeted by the immortal line from the passenger “we’re f*&+#;+_g grandparents, we know what children look like”.

    I was pushed and shoved, I kept bike between us.

    The car behind was now beeping and clearly phone out and filming.

    The “he’s not worth it” line from passenger saw the driver back off.

    I rode off after my group, who were now out of sight, taking a photo of the car as I left.

    The aggressive car now sat a metre back from my bank wheel for a km or so as we went down the hill, including as I pulled alongside the end of the group (riding as compact 2 abreast peloton as they had been instructed to).

    5 minutes later the car behind who had beeped horn found us and passed a phone number to me offering to be witness.

    Police have investigated, however they have decided that because driver is in England it would require two officers to go down to interview the driver, and because the witness from car behind phone number was wrong, it’s too much effort and cost….

    I’m not sure they have even phoned the driver or even got English colleague to drop in and say that they have had a complaint, please be careful in future.

    So the message it’s ok to drive your hoofing great car directly at children, then push and shout at members of the public.

    Ffs.

    Premier Icon thegeneralist
    Free Member

    That’s so depressing. Was hoping for a happy ending.

    Hmph.

    Premier Icon stumpy01
    Full Member

    Jeez! That sounds horrendous. It’s must be really frustrating to have that response from Plod.

    My Wife used to be in the Police & I’m sure they used to get other forces to interview people if they were miles away. I wonder if they could have done that? Perhaps it’s a case of ‘computer says no’ because it’s over the border.

    Shit situation, really, and amazing that people are able to get so worked up about things like this – looking for every excuse to be offended, outraged & blow off steam!

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Perhaps it’s a case of ‘computer says no’ because it’s over the border.

    There’s some big differences in law between Scotland and England.

    I’m disappointed, balanced against police are stowed out with ‘bigger’ crimes, that they couldn’t get an officer to even just knock on the guys door and him know they had looked into it.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Am I allowed to post the picture with reg number?

    Premier Icon aP
    Free Member

    I would think that’d be ok. It all happened in the public realm and the police have said that they’re not going to proceed.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Disappointing because an offence has been committed! Lack of resources I guess? Shame about the phone number… maybe you should get your own camera (surprised you haven’t tbh for exactly this reason).

    Also personally I would try to avoid such a route on my own back-lane pootles, let alone with a group of 10 kids to look after! 😳 Just not worth the risk, given how low driving standards are.

    Premier Icon spawnofyorkshire
    Full Member

    Was this logged as an assault? (they laid hands on you), it should be on the original complaint you made. This has a big effect on how much resource is put into it. There is a low likelihood of the police tossing this off from laziness, it’s more likely that they have too much on and this doesn’t fall on the right side of the time vs result equation. My piss is boiling off reading your post though, I’d love every bellend like the one you encountered disenfranchised from their belief they are entitled to do what they want.
    Also Scottish vs English plod doesn’t matter, they have cooperation agreements with each other, they do it all the time.

    Premier Icon alexnharvey
    Free Member

    Is there any way you can identify the witness or correct the phone number?

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    It was logged as assault, the note serious of the two charges. Dangerous driving was the other.

    Also personally I would try to avoid such a route on my own back-lane pootles, let alone with a group of 10 kids to look after!

    I hear you. Balanced against the only activities we do a Boys Brigade are outdoors through all of the pandemic. And if anyone can find 20-60km routes without any awkward sections in thier locality, I’m impressed.
    As said, this was one section of faster road.

    Photo.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Is there any way you can identify the witness or correct the phone number?

    We know they live in Falkirk, drive a green mini and have last two registration letters. But seemingly not.

    Premier Icon Marin
    Free Member

    Headbut and take his keys out the ignition to be dropped down a grid, let’s the spirit of RaB C free.

    Premier Icon stevemuzzy
    Free Member

    Matt, was the mini the witness? Maybe put a help cry out to locals, although I appreciate that lots of tourists use that road to get to callander from stirling.

    can’t be that many minis that shade of green ending in a u number plate?

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    And if anyone can find 20-60km routes without any awkward sections in thier locality, I’m impressed.

    true, basically why my road bike has been permanently on the trainer for zwift for the last 2 years & always take the gravel bike out instead now 🤣 To many nobbers.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Full Member

    Yeah, we should all stay off the roads. Let the cars take over, just like they want.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Ask the kids to delete this thread and start the Police complaints process. Involve your MP, the Press, whatever. Are you a member of BC of CUK?)

    Until we start refusing to accept that this is appropriate, it won’t stop happening.

    (I get limited Police resources and other priorities, but there needs to be consistent push back from the public whose consent they claim to have to Police)

    Premier Icon hooli
    Free Member

    That’s crap, it really is. We should all (Police included) be doing everything we can to get kids outdoors and keeping them active.

    Premier Icon HansRey
    Full Member

    A courier driver in clapham knocked me off my bike and drove off. I chased him down, got photo of the van and called police. The police were not keen to investigate, but I pushed and pushed. The courier driver was found to not have a driving licence and was banned for two years. I was happy knowing that he *probably* wouldnt be on the roads and might learn something.

    You’ve got to push this. If you need help, I’m sure there are stw members (like myself) who will help.

    Premier Icon brads
    Full Member

    More amazed that anyone would think the cops would do anything about it.

    The **** needed a hiding.

    Premier Icon tthew
    Full Member

    Do you have them police and crime commissioners in Scotland? You could approach them with your concerns, change tack to concentrate on the assault and threatening kids rather than driving standards. And/or MSP and MP.

    Premier Icon speedstar
    Full Member

    How about contacting cyclelaw? They might be able to assist

    Premier Icon eskay
    Full Member

    Sadly it is because of these incidents (that I have also suffered first had several times) that I have a front and rear camera on my road bikes. My local force (Avon & Somerset) are very good at following up incidents sent to them from cameras.

    Premier Icon lairdburkart
    Free Member

    That’s awful.
    Reminds me of last time I got assaulted by a driver. It must be nearly a year ago now and it still upsets me.
    Still riding though nearly every day. Still smiling

    Premier Icon cromolyolly
    Free Member

    Out of curiosity, MOAB, do you know or did the police comment on the legality/liability/complications of a ‘civilian’ directing traffic?

    Premier Icon fasgadh
    Free Member

    Like most of Scotland you have to link bits of quiet road with awkward sections. The networks of lanes like much of Ireland, Wales and England are rare here. The road through Doune is very quiet by the standards of much of England

    Premier Icon scaled
    Full Member

    We know they live in Falkirk, drive a green mini and have last two registration letters. But seemingly not.

    That sounds like a job for cycling twitter

    Premier Icon jimfrandisco
    Free Member

    Nothing to add, but seething with rage on your behalf.and behalf of all reasonable normal people.
    You did well to keep your cool.
    Cars are like alcohol, so ingrained in society that many people simply don’t see them as a danger.
    The fact that police generally won’t act without video evidence and chance of a prosecution speaks volumes.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Full Member

    That’s crap OP and hats off to you for staying calm. To my shame I would’ve lost it and hit the gormless ****. I bet it would’ve been pursued then. Probably make the news with ‘Cyclists attacks driver’ as the headline.

    I had somebody attempt to run me over a couple of years ago because I was stood in keep clear markings attempting to cross a road with a blind corner. That ended with me kicking the cars rear lights in. It was that or do the same to the pudgy, middle aged accountant/road warrior that got aggressive and then jumped back in his car when he realised things were different outside the car in the real world.

    Reported myself to the police once the anger had subsided. I paid for a new light array and the cop asked me if I wanted to press charges. Sounds immature, but I can’t stand people that get up in your face all angry and then have nothing to back it up with. Take your impotent rage and shove it up your arse before I hurt you.

    Sorry, rant over. Hope you find a way to pursue this OPz

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Out of curiosity, MOAB, do you know or did the police comment on the legality/liability/complications of a ‘civilian’ directing traffic?

    The two officers both firmly agreed that if you come around a corner to find member of public signalling for you to slow, with some bikes/truck/cow/any hazard behind, you’d be a weapons grade fool to ignore it… They also thought it was the correct thing to do to allow the 10-20 seconds it was going to take to get the group out onto the road in one go.

    Premier Icon duner
    Free Member

    Few weeks ago I had a bloke beep at me for overtaking him to get to the front of the queue at some lights. We exchanged gestures and obscenities. He then pulled over further down the road and jumped out, hitting me with some sort of baton in the middle of the road.

    Got the last bit on video. Police said as he had no previous it wasn’t worth persuing, and encouraged me to let them just give him an unofficial telling off. I went along with it.

    Makes you wonder what do you have to do to actually get arrested.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Drivers don’t like it when you touch their cars.did similar myself with a van and he stopped and got out.he then chased me. Now even when they are in the wrong I keep to myself and try to be restrained. Easier said than done though. If you provoke the driver the Police will say you started it.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    If you provoke the driver the Police will say you started it.

    I got a driver cautioned for assaulting me a few years ago. Was offered the choice to have him properly charged or just cautioned, so I went with the easier option and told the police officer it was partly my fault for some of the preceding shouting and gesturing.

    “Shout and gesture as much as you want, but the first one to touch the other loses” was how he described it.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Shout and gesture as much as you want, but the first one to touch the other loses” was how he described it.

    that’s bollocks, although IME most coppers have a very weak grasp of the actual letter of the law.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    MOAB – that’s really disappointing. I’d be calling them back and asking for clarification if the decision not to pursue the case was made by the COPFS and therefore making clear you intended to seek a review (https://www.copfs.gov.uk/images/Documents/Victims_and_Witnesses/Lord%20Avocates%20Rules%20-%20June%2015%20v2.pdf) as you are entitled to do under s4(2) of the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2014.

    I’m not sure what the process/procedure is for the police reviewing decisions which never even get reported to the PF – but I’m sure that there must be one.

    I don’t actually see why they need to interview him anyway? Did they make a s172 request on the driver? Did they interview the kids/other leader? You have 10 witnesses there who have at least circumstantial evidence. (The PF will not want to call kids to the witness box if they can avoid it – but the police should have spoken to them).

    I would be a bit surprised if cycling Twitter / Falkirk facebook couldn’t track down a willing witness with a Colour of Mini, a two letter partial index and a dodgy photo of a blonde woman especially if it is clear they are being sought as witnesses.

    Premier Icon cromolyolly
    Free Member

    you’d be a weapons grade fool to ignore it…

    Well, yeah. I have seen group rides and the like doing it before and always wondered.

    I wonder if the police aren’t pursuing it because of that fact though. Too difficult to prove that the victim didn’t contribute. Driver claims some raving fool in spandex jumped out in front of him and he had to take evasive action, resulting in him unfortunately nearly hitting the cyclists who should have been in the cycle lane etc etc

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    We are down the pecking order on the roads. Cars remain supreme.

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