So how many sales were lost at Bespoked on strength of meeting the maker?

The Mercian is lovely, but I’m sure uses stock lugs to make the frame. A Demon for instance is effectively the work of two bikes and then some. A tubeset is brazed up then cut up to create the lugs. This is then used to make the finished product along with some very intricate filing. There was also a mention of Rob English, I’d imagine the bikes he’s renowned for will cost in excess of 2k as stated.

The Mercian is lovely, but I’m sure uses stock lugs to make the frame. A Demon for instance is effectively the work of two bikes and then some. A tubeset is brazed up then cut up to create the lugs. This is then used to make the finished product along with some very intricate filing. There was also a mention of Rob English, I’d imagine the bikes he’s renowned for will cost in excess of 2k as stated.

OK that helps

But of course that doesn’t actually make the bike any better…..

End result should be something stunning that potentially lasts you a lifetime.

All bike frames potentially last a life time. Not all are stunning

Nearly bought a custom MTB in about 199?. It would have been 26 inch wheels, steep head tube, geometry corrected for an 80mm fork and had v=brakes. I’m sure it would still have some uses but I don’t think it would still be paying me back. I bottled spending the money as were moving house and bought an Orange Gringo instead, alloy and made in Taiwan. That is still going strong and I’m not sure that a steel frame would have ridden any better

The lifetime reference was relating to the tattoo analogy.
Of course mtb frames in particular have moved on dramatically over the last 5/10/15 years – road bikes not quite so much.
From a personal perspective I’m looking for a road/touring style frame, I’d chose to run discs, settle on a head tube then just let the angles do the talking. I’m not saying I will fork out £4K at all, I was just listing how I think the eye watering figure can be justifiable.
Personally again, I’m sure I’d settle for something less than half that price when it comes down to it.

For what it’s worth, I’m not having a go at hard working people forgetting my name in the midst of a mob – that’s totally understandable. In my case I actually waited till the stand was completely empty before approaching, was awarded 30 secs, then suddenly dropped like a dog egg. Either way, perhaps you’re more forgiving than I – but it made me feel less keen to do business.

that doesn’t actually make the bike any better…..

But ‘better’ is mainly a subjective term. ‘If’ your considerations are for something as limited as a completely unique and expensive custom frame, then you’re more likely to fork out and covet your prized possession.

We all covet different things – most people cannot afford the things that literally make them drool in admiration. Some of us can afford to do just that when it comes to cycling – which is a sport that is interestingly fused with tradition/craft/mechanics/artistic expression.
Someone willing to fork out £4K on a frame is probably also someone able to view their cherished bike as a work of art.

I spoke to Paul & Cy from Cotic, and someone whose name I forget from Shand at the London bike show this year and found them all to be really glad to just talk about bikes (or at least, really good at pretending they’re enjoying talking about bikes). Even the guy from Singletrack seemed pleased to have a word (although that was last year).

Easy to see how a manually intensive product can cost so much. As above, at a rate of £50 per hour to cover all costs that is only 80 hours work.

If you don’t want to buy a manually intensive one off product or don’t see the point then don’t buy one.

I wouldn’t buy such an object (bike frame, guitar or anything else) as I am happy with mass produced standard products but it is not difficult for me to understand how such a product could cost £4K

Looking at how much bespoke furniture goes for I reckon bespoke frames are all bargains…

I think my main gripe was one guy (4K guy) pretty much dropped me mid sentence to continue a chat with another fella that he must’ve started earlier in the day.

The other guy was clearly buying one of these preposterously expensive frames.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there.

🙂

Haha! You may well be right

This place is very odd sometimes. In what land is it OK to shout about something being ‘preposterous’ when a bloke is charging £50 an hour for a lot of his very skilled labour? Y’know actually suggesting he’s ripping people off while he’s actually coming on here to talk about bikes.

F2f you’d probably get a smack for being so rude. Think it’s too much? Don’t buy – easy. It’s the same chippy cobblers spouted during the usual debates about non essential purchases on here.

In what land is it OK to shout about something being ‘preposterous’

Hey that’s not fair, I was laughing – not shouting.

boblo – Member

In what land is it OK to shout about something being ‘preposterous’

TBH it feels like walking around Bespoked shouting HA! HA! PREPOSTEROUS! would be entirely in keeping. Especially if you’re wearing a pith helmet

I’m always a bit puzzled about why people get so upset about people who choose to buy different nice things from them. If the OP thinks that a custom bike is worth four grand of their money then it is. It might not be worth four grand of your money but it’s not your money that’s being spent 🙂

That said, I just look at those Demon lugs and think about all the time I’d spend getting dirt out the cutouts with a toothbrush.

I’m not sure it’s worth it for me – I don’t have enough spare to justify it – but, I would if I did. I have no issue with others choosing to splash out if they find themselves mesmerised by something shiny.

I’d love to be able to afford a £4k custom frame, there is some lovely and practical stuff about
But I think I would much rather spend that £4k on a frame building course and building my own frame, get more out of it both from doing it and the years riding something I had built myself

Surely Shand/Richards/Cooper should be the sort of people you’re asking?

Cooper – ??
He’s Scotch aswell int he?

Cooper? Isn’t he dead?

Wait, what?

No its Cocker that’s dead.

But of course that doesn’t actually make the bike any better.

As somebody who owned a Mercian lugged frame and now rides a Pegoretti and a Chesini I have to disagree with you.
(And that’s not a post purchasing affirmation to justify a big outlay as I didn’t pay retail)

Bencooper’s not dead? 2016 gets worse and worse

It’s only April 😀

So, did the OP get an answer to their question then?

I don’t see the problem in someone spending a lot of money on something they will cherish, and that has significant personal value to them. Of course you can go and buy a (possibly technically superior) off-the-peg frame for a lot less than a bespoke custom one. But that’s not really the point, is it? You can buy a cheap but decent mass-produced frame built by robots in a factory staffed with cheap/sweated labour. Or you can help support a local craftsperson making beautiful esoteric things. And if the cost of that is £4k, or £40k or £400k, if you can afford it and it will be something you will value more highly than said mass-produced product, is it therefore not ‘worth’ it? Plus you’d be investing in the possibility of future generations learning from that craftsperson. So it’s not always about pure cost.

“And just think of some of the jumped up tits in white collar jobs who think that rate of pay is acceptable for the services that they offer..”

I paid a bloke £160 yesterday to unblock our sink. It took him about 2 hours. Seemed a bit expensive, but I certainly wouldn’t want to do it. Nasty job. Then when I thought about it a bit more, and how he’s had to get trained and work for years on shit money to be able to get to a point where he can charge someone £80 an hour, help feed and clothe his family, put a roof over their heads, educate his kids etc, I thought it was actually worth every penny. There’s blokes kicking a football around for £100k a week and more. So is paying someone £50 an hour to make you a bicycle that will bring you immeasurable joy for many years, too much? I think not.

You can buy a cheap but decent mass-produced frame built by robots in a factory staffed with cheap/sweated labour.

Actually, very few frames are welded by robots, and Taiwanese welders at least are pretty well paid.

There are lots of good reasons to buy a custom-built frame (I would say that) but ethical concerns aren’t a big one.

I had a stand at Bespoked this year, http://www.starlingcycles.com.

Except for a few quiet patches early and late in the day, I didn’t stop talking for three days. With just me on the stand I barely had time to pee, let alone eat my lunch.

But, keeping a cheery disposition for the whole time is pretty important. Even when someone is asking you why your bike has a spring in the middle, whilst you can see someone queuing up who is really keen to ask some real questions about the bike.

My biggest issue with the show was fancy paintjobs over framebuilding content. If only I’d known this I would have splashed £1k on a paintjob and one all of the awards!

As for catering for all customer requirements, it really up to the framebuilder. But in my experience even what seems like the simplest change can often cause a whole deal of pain. And the customer may not necessarily be happy. There was a lot of talk among the builders about reducing options on their frames.

My biggest issue with the show was fancy paintjobs over framebuilding content. If only I’d known this I would have splashed £1k on a paintjob and one all of the awards!

A guy I know refuses to go to Bespoked because of this exact issue.

Yes, Bespoked is a bit posh for the likes of me 😉

I can definitely understand builders who want to stick to what they know and what works for them. I feel a bit differently about it, because I often build things which are much more obscure and experimental.

Do we know who the OP is talking about yet?

I had a very nice welcome on the Shand stand.

(Mind you, I didn’t try to start redesigning their bikes for them or anything like that, I just pointed and grinned stupidly at the Drove and said ‘I want one like that’, so I guess an easy customer.)