so explain dinosaurs then….

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  • so explain dinosaurs then….
  • Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
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    Sadly not.

    There’s a rise in this country too.

    The majority of the uk are becoming less religious, but the rise in the belief in creationism and an increase in a literalism is alarming.

    Premier Icon mogrim
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    The comments section on that “The Atlantic” link posted above is surely where kaesae lives these days?

    Premier Icon ahwiles
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    …why-has-republican-belief-in-evolution-declined-so-much…

    1) are there fewer people identifying themselves as republicans? – only the hardline crazies are left.

    2) the USA is going (even more) bat-sh&& mental.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    The majority of the uk are becoming less religious

    On the whole yes, though some specific religions are on the rise. IIRC, Islam’s doubled in the last ten years. Hm, I should probably look that up.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Ah, here.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-religion.html

    Between 2001 and 2011 there has been a decrease in people who identify as Christian (from 71.7 per cent to 59.3 per cent) and an increase in those reporting no religion (from 14.8 per cent to 25.1 per cent). There were increases in the other main religious group categories, with the number of Muslims increasing the most (from 3.0 per cent to 4.8 per cent).

    pondo
    Member

    The comments section on that “The Atlantic” link posted above is surely where kaesae lives these days?

    How can we get Sam Spade on here? He’s fantastic! 😀

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    @Cougar- the census stats on religion are pretty useless due to the leading question used (they defend the leading question on the basis that it’s the one they’ve used for ages, therefore useful for comparative work- true, but it’s still useless as an absolute). (if you add a sanity-check question, roughly half of those who identify as christian don’t believe in christ, and a little under half of those who identify as religious don’t believe in god)

    I like Sam Spade, he’s made of teflon.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Yeah, I know; but it’s still valid as a means of comparison as you say.

    Wasn’t there a campaign to get it changed this time around?

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Aha,

    http://census-campaign.org.uk/ – not quite the same thing as I was remembering though.

    (Found via https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/ – some interesting reading there)

    willard
    Member

    Oh yes, the dinosaur question… The fossils were put there to test our faith.

    I’ve been round the houses with this one. Even carbon dating does not sway people that have that level of belief, because a god that can create a planet can certainly alter Carbon 14 in a way that would make the fossils appear old.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Creationists really are thoroughly entertaining.

    http://www.creationism.org/topbar/dinosaurs.htm

    Carbon-14 dating of carbon buried in the same layer with dragon bones helps to confirm that they are really only thousands of years old.

    Doesn’t explain how Noah got ’em all onto an ark 150 yards long, mind.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Oh, brilliant. He took baby ones.

    http://www.icr.org/article/how-do-dinosaurs-fit-in/

    God had told Noah to bring pairs of each kind of land animal on board the Ark, including, evidently, the dinosaurs (7:15). Recognizing that as reptiles, dinosaurs would have continued to grow as long as they lived, implying that the oldest would be the largest, there was plenty of room on board the Ark for the younger ones. Thus the dinosaurs on board the Ark probably would have been young adults, no bigger than a cow perhaps.

    Junkyard
    Member

    I should probably look that up

    Jesus wept Mods letting the side down again

    Just shoot from the hip then flame/ ad hom when challenged , banhammer them and then re write the matrix to make you look awesome and them look stupid

    WOW 66 trackers on that link from the OP WOW a new record

    Premier Icon ampthill
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    I have also heard that the Dinosaurs are not extinct, they just live in areas we haven’t properly explored

    Plenty of people believe in a sort of half way house. Yes there were Dinosaurs, yes there were simple life forms on Earth. But God or something guided evolution or helped it along

    personally I don’t have much religious faith but I don’t see any problems with combining religion and science. I work with Biologists with active Christian faith, they see no problem withthis.

    My view is that if I was an all powerful creator I wouldn’t bother designing a few hundred thousand different Beetles. I’d just set out the rules and let the program run…..

    Premier Icon zippykona
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    Maybe the ark was a space ship and they took DNA that they later cloned.
    Edit. Even if they nut jobs are right its still a hateful book which should be ignored.

    crispycross
    Member

    Hold on a minute. There are two questions here and we’re getting them muddled. On the question of evolution (presumably by mutation and natural selection) versus species existing in a steady state, you can have a meaningful debate, following which the steady-staters will lose out because all the evidence we have supports evolution. The mere existence of fossilised dinosaurs, regardless of their age, does not provide convincing evidence of evolution on its own. After all, our contrary steady-stater could argue that each type of dinosaur was created perfect (but not so perfect that the many species managed to survive until now), millions of years ago and no evolutionary processes were involved. This makes him a different kind of woodentop to the one who denies genetics, carbon dating, geology, physics and all those other pesky details that trouble literal creationists.

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    My view is that if I was an all powerful creator I wouldn’t bother designing a few I’d be wondering how I managed to get created in the first place…

    No emoticon for a sneer.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    personally I don’t have much religious faith but I don’t see any problems with combining religion and science

    Weird, isn’t it. It’s like, it’s not enough for them to believe they’re right, they have to believe everyone else is wrong as well.

    This is fantastic: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/1999/11/05/dinosaurs-and-the-bible

    Apparently “evolutionists” can’t possibly know what happened a couple of thousand years ago because they weren’t there. I need a new ironyometer, my old one’s just melted.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    you can have a meaningful debate, following which the steady-staters will lose out because all the evidence we have supports evolution.

    That’s assuming they stick to their own rules. In that article I just linked to, it states that you can’t have evolution because there’s no proto-dinosaurs, just things that are 100% dinosaur or 100% something else; that’s after previously explaining that we don’t really know much about them because we’ve only found bits. They then go on to talk about Noah taking “kinds” of animals onto the ark, where “dog” is a kind, and all our modern breeds come from that pair. Evolved, you could say.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    I don’t know. If you can’t trust a picture of Jesus depicted as a beardy white man, who can you trust? Hey?

    Premier Icon piedi di formaggio
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    Cougar, that link is brilliant. Utter utter tosh presented as undeniable facts!

    Junkyard
    Member

    cougar did the new one break a few sentences later?

    Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view

    says the creationist trying to fit the dinosaurs into the biblical account

    theflatboy
    Member

    My favourite extract from Cougar’s link:

    As you add up all of the dates, and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth almost 2000 years ago, we come to the conclusion that the creation of the Earth and animals (including the dinosaurs) occurred only thousands of years ago (perhaps only 6000!), not millions of years. Thus, if the Bible is right (and it is!), dinosaurs must have lived within the past thousands of years.

    And it is!

    mudmonster
    Member

    That creationist rubbish was quite entertaining at first but in the end just mad me angry. The hypocrisy is astonishing.

    Premier Icon ampthill
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    I’m a physicist and given the choice between a universe springing into existence complete with matter, energy and set of constants that allow atoms and chemistry

    and an all powerful creator springing into existence

    The evidence points to the Universe

    But neither seem probable

    ninfan
    Member

    Here’s a question to bounce it the other way

    Since we’re agreed that Dinosaurs and Humans never co-existed, explain why almost all human cultures & societies, East and West, have long established folklore of great Dragons and similar creatures?

    Junkyard
    Member

    ninfan wrote:

    Here’s a question to bounce it the other way
    Since we’re agreed that Dinosaurs and Humans never co-existed, explain why almost all human cultures & societies, East and West, have long established folklore of Dragons and similar creatures?

    Its shows , how despite the superficial racial differences, that under the skin we are all basically the same with the same motivations and desires 8)
    perhaps it shows how isolated communities can evolve the same way 💡

    Perhaps it shows your lack of knowledge that the dragon of our lore is separate from the far eastern one which is often associated positively and is generally seen as being associated with water and has no wings ❓

    TBH I only answered as i was wondering what your point was – – its the new year go on indulge me, what were you alluding to here?

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    ninfan – Member

    Since we’re agreed that Dinosaurs and Humans never co-existed, explain why almost all human cultures & societies, East and West, have long established folklore of great Dragons and similar creatures?

    Most dragon myths are very different from dinosaurs. Those which are a bit dinosaury are generally more snaky. So, there is no reason at all to link the two, and lots of reasons not to.

    mudmonster
    Member

    There has been a documentary on iplayer a few time called ‘dinosaurs myths and monsters’ I think. It explains a lot about how dragon myths came about.

    Spin
    Member

    I overheard a colleague talking about how someone was coming their church to show them ‘fossils from the Garden of Eden’.

    You couldn’t make this shit up. I mean obviously someone made it up, but you know what I mean…

    ninfan
    Member

    Junky – I’d agree it very much points towards a common origin for human evolution, but it also suggests that the tales are very, very old, back towards that early origin

    Chinese classic texts frequently mention flying dragons , and the breathing fire aspect seems to be common amongst eastern and western versions of the tale, along with the south american fire and or flying serpents.

    Spin
    Member

    Here’s a question to bounce it the other way

    Since we’re agreed that Dinosaurs and Humans never co-existed, explain why almost all human cultures & societies, East and West, have long established folklore of great Dragons and similar creatures?

    Don’t you go shifting the burden of proof.

    If you want to suggest dinosaurs were the inspiration for dragon legends you need to supply evidence. It aint up to me to disprove no crackpot theories it’s up to the crackpots to prove them.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    explain why almost all human cultures & societies, East and West, have long established folklore of great Dragons and similar creatures?

    Because we have active imaginations. We’ve spontaneously made up lots of things, some of which will have a similarity to other geographically separate cultures purely by chance; dragons, bigfoot, yeti, Nessie, daffy duck, chupacabra, Santa Claus, religion.

    ninfan
    Member

    some of which will have a similarity to other geographically separate cultures purely by chance

    So, all these different cultures independently came up with flying reptiles, most of which breathed fire?

    I don’t think this for a minute, I’d argue it suggests that the tales have a very old origin.

    I don’t know the origin of the tales, and I’m not suggesting anything, other than there seems to be an interesting commonality in the folklore that seems to spread through a great many cultures – its an interesting point for discussion, since most other myths seem to have some form of semi-factual origin (like the flood myth for example)

    Shred
    Member

    I’m ashamed to say I used to believe in creationism. 😳

    What a waste of time spent arguing with others about it.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    So, all these different cultures independently came up with flying reptiles, most of which breathed fire?

    Did they? Which cultures are these then, specifically?

    Do they outnumber the ones that didn’t?

    crankboy
    Member

    Did not a number of cultures also believe in wolf headed men . Was there not a western attempt in the middle ages to track down the wolf headed men from the east after a significant journey they explorers got to the easten limits only to be told yes there were wolf headed men but everyone knows they live in the west?

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