Smoking ban

Vaping isn’t good either, but it’s “cooler/on trend” than smoking and smells less

Smells less? Does it ****. Can smell a **** vaper from a mile away! SIckly sweet smell I’d rather be a passive smoker!

I long stopped smoking weed. It was too strong. And now, also a bit like vaping, the smell disgusts me. Since I stopped I’m not keen on it being legalized but remember being on the other side and wanting it to be. It can mess with some people’s heads too much.

Ban smoking? Why not. Brucewee’s approach about making it much tougher for younger people to buy sounds good but what do I know. 10y ex smoker, smoked for 20+ years.

What does a pack of 10 Benson’s and some king skins cost these days? Come to think of it, has soap bar gone up in price along with inflation?

I think that overall, this is another step towards getting rid of smoking. It seems incredible to me now that not that long ago we still thought it was acceptable to go into pubs and restaurants and come out reeking if stake smoke… and of course that wasn’t the real problem but the fact that now seems utterly mad shows how far we have come.

My son’s a smoker and it deeply upsets me.

Doesn’t the equality act make it illegal to discriminate against consumers based on age as a protected characteristic

Interesting to compare attitudes to smoking with those to drinking alcohol. It seems to me that the vast majority of drinkers manage to do so without it becoming an addiction (I do know alcoholics, so I’m aware it’s possible) whereas smoking is the reverse.

According to my teacher friend, smoking is in and vaping is out.

Apparently it’s only the old folk who are vaping (ie, 25 year olds).

Odd, I see school kids and teens vaping all the time, whereas those smoking, and that’s not so many these days, are older.
One thing that used to really piss me off was being ticked off for taking the slightest bit extra time at breaks, usually ten minutes morning and afternoon, plus a half-hour break for lunch, while others who smoke would be outside puffing away for ten minutes every hour plus an extra ten minutes added to the lunch break, which they’re ‘entitled to’ because they smoke! 😖

Yes, great idea.

Tried smoking once at school, couldn’t get the hang of it!

Of course, we are just about dealing with all pubs & restaurants closing down due to the smoking ban there. Awful now isn’t it.

It seems incredible to me now that not that long ago we still thought it was acceptable to go into pubs and restaurants and come out reeking if stake smoke

What’s even more mental is the fact that you used to be able to smoke on planes. I told my daughters that recently and they didn’t believe me

Can’t understand why anyone would not back this idea unless the tobacco companies are paying them

Odd, I see school kids and teens vaping all the time, whereas those smoking, and that’s not so many these days, are older.

I’d imagine it’s highly regional.

However, in terms of fashion, I think this season cigarettes are in and vapes are out:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/smoking-cool-fashion-saltburn-trend-b2504079.html

Indeed. Who still smokes nowadays anyway? The numbers of young people doing so are absolutely minuscule compared to previous generations.

Strange. We just had a new cohort of grads start most of whom smoke.

Yet when I think back to my cohort -15 years ago that was 1 or 2 smokers in a group of 20

The two that work for me stated that they started with vape and then skol as the vape was scorned by their peers then just went with smoking as it’s more socially acceptable than looking like a Berk with a vape and more accessible than skol.

In our industry there are moves to ban smoking at site – I’m on board with it tbh as it’s a huge cardiovascular risk in a remote environment – we already screen for overweight but let the smokers through wirh impunity – but it is going to present a huge near and long term  recruitment issue.

Tldr: looks like the numbers are rising again: vaping looks more like a gateway than a solution

vaping looks more like a gateway than a solution

Not a huge surprise when you start to look at who owns most of the larger vaping co and e-cigarettes.

Do the rules mean someone can’t bring duty free, or tobacco bought while abroad back into the UK?

vaping looks more like a gateway than a solution

A good point.

With cigs the price they are, the current generation of potential smokers – ie teens simply cannot afford them, so are less likely to start.

That is bad for the cigarette companies, who need new customers and also for the treasury, which sees its income fall.

Enter the vape. cheap enough that even children can afford them, and given the active addiction aspect – nicotine leaves them addicted, what will or can happen if they cant get a vape, they are more likely to try to buy cigarettes instead. Bingo, you have your new customer group.

All we need is for the government to ban vapes and thee addicted vapers only option is buying cigarettes.

.

It’s a little bit like the Diesel thing. For decades diesel was cheaper than petrol. Then we have adverts on tv claiming diesel was better and the new engines were cheaper to run, cleaner etc etc and lots of people bought diesel cars.

Then the price of diesel goes up beyond the cost of petrol.What a stroke of luck for the treasury, and with so many now owning diesel vehicles their tax revenue increased by a very large amount.

Strange. We just had a new cohort of grads start most of whom smoke.

Yet when I think back to my cohort -15 years ago that was 1 or 2 smokers in a group of

The latest stats:

In 2021, 12% of 11-15 year old pupils had ever smoked, down from 16% of pupils in 2018, and is the lowest level ever recorded by this survey. There has been a steady decline since 1996, when 49% of pupils had smoked at least once

vaping looks more like a gateway than a solution

What an absurd statement. Smoking is at its lowest level ever recorded largely due to vaping. There’s not been a sudden massive upsurge in willpower.

Myself and all my mates I reckon are pretty typical. We all used to smoke. Now I don’t know a single one who does. All now vape instead. I don’t know, or have ever heard of a single person who started vaping them went on to start smoking cigs. Do feel free to enlighten me though

For a parent like me who likes to restrict what things my kids have access to (e.g. screen time, computer games) while hypocritically filling my boots with it when they are asleep, this seems like a good solution. They aren’t allowed and I can still have the odd ciggy from a 20 pack I bought 3 months ago when I was a bit squiffy.

I do wonder why not ban vapes for people the same age though? If they are justified as a way to reduce smoking then what is the point of them if you aren’t allowed to smoke.

So weird that smoking is so demonised while alcohol is generally left alone. I’m sure the harm that alcohol does to some people is much worse.
In the case of alcohol it’s much more severe if you get really addicted, whereas for cigarettes you could get lucky and despite smoking a packet per day for most of your life live to 90 and die from something unrelated to smoking.

I had a long think about it a while back after I found out that a friend’s family business was a tobacco company. In some ways I felt like they were just profiting from something that causes addiction, illness, misery and death. Then I thought about how I would feel if a friend owned a brewery/distillery – how is that any better? Tobacco and alcohol can both be enjoyed in moderation with relatively low health risks (occasional cigar/pint). It’s when you make it a routine/regular thing that the health risks and impact on your life become intolerable.

I’m sure the harm that alcohol does to some people is much worse.

It is but your argument has been taken apart several times already on this thread. Smokers are pretty much all addicted and two thirds will die from diseases caused by smoking. The vast majority of drinkers are not addicted and consume at levels where long term harm is minimal. Not the same at all.

Finally this government has done something useful, and upset mad Lizze into the bargain, result.

But again, tobacco specifically targets adolescents.  If you don’t get people addicted before they are out of their teens they are highly unlikely to start at all.

Alcohol you can get into at any age.  Same with weed, MDMA, mushrooms, etc. Also, stopping drinking, weed, MDMA etc is far far easier than cigarettes.

Attempting to introduce an increasing age limit on alcohol would lead to black markets because people like to drink.  They don’t need to be addicted.

Why do people insist that not treating every single drug exactly the same way is somehow hypocritical?  Saying that, the vaping age should be increased along with tobacco.  Same business model but with fewer health effects.

In the case of alcohol it’s much more severe if you get really addicted, whereas for cigarettes you could get lucky and despite smoking a packet per day for most of your life live to 90 and die from something unrelated to smoking.

You can also get really addicted to alcohol, ive to 90 and die of something unrelated. Both cause terrible health problems though, so you’re right in some ways about alcohol being an ‘ok’ habit.

What an absurd statement. Smoking is at its lowest level ever recorded largely due to vaping. There’s not been a sudden massive upsurge in willpower.

Maybe your blinkered as a smoker. But I’m seeing it on the rise on the ground. Hide behind the published stats that suit your native but in the 20 years between me being a teen and the current crop there is a significant uptake. Those in that generation are telling me real time they got into smoking via vaping.

Hardly absurd. The absurd part is your defence of smoking.

It’s a real time future issue your kicking into the long grass

Maybe your blinkered as a smoker

I haven’t been a smoker for a long time. Like absolutely loads of other people I gave up the evil cigs via vaping

Thank god!

Smoking is only going in one direction. It’s in terminal decline. It isn’t going to have some vinyl-esque revival. In 30 years we’ll view walking into a shop to buy 20 cigs in the same way as someone nowadays buying snuff

So why’s the kids doing it then and citing they started vaping but didn’t like looking like a berk….. I did point out you look just as much of a Berk with a burning bit of paper hanging out your mouth stood in the cold wind and rain….it was to no avail.

Ps hope it does go the same way as snuff. Snuffs banned.

Oh and great job on giving it up. I had in my head you were still smoking. It’s never easy. It nearly killed my old man and he would still go back – 4 heart attacks and 6 stents. Every time he would stop. And every time he picked up the cigs again he would have another. – they started early 30s . He’s now nearly 60 and as far as I know learned his lesson.

There has been far less of a decline (around 0.3%) since 2020.  And with the current push in movies and fashion to make smoking cool again it may be about to go back up again.

Time to update your figures.

For those wondering, looks like smoking has gone from 20% in 2011 to 13% in 2022.

The graph on this page shows a pretty straight line going down https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/adultsmokinghabitsingreatbritain/2022

13% is still a lot of people who smoke at around 6 million.  They must all be hiding somewhere as I don’t notice anywhere near as many smoking these days.

I’m very much on the fence with this. My gut reaction is “smoking bad, ban good”  and from a direct health cost view, that’s probably right.

But as others have pointed out, if you look at wider societal costs, alcohol and sugar/processed foods are probably similar costs, so should also be banned.

And if you accept the personal liberty argument, then clearly all drugs should be legalised (and taxed) which will make the Tories heads explode.

I dabbled briefly with cigarettes as a teen, having been brought up in an extended family of smokers, most of whom had given up by teatime I started trying it. While I shudder at the memory of pubs reeking of smoke, the occasional whiff of cigarette, and especially pipe and cigar smoke, brings back happy family memories for me

 It nearly killed my old man and he would still go back – 4 heart attacks and 6 stents. Every time he would stop. And every time he picked up the cigs again he would have another

Depressingly, we’re presently seeing the same with my father-in-law. 2 heart attacks in and still puffing away.

As someone in the glass house of being a smoker for 20 odd years though, I can’t throw stones, I suppose. It’s his choice.

I did take him to a vape shop and got him all kitted out with a decent vape and liquids and everything but it didn’t last 5 minutes

I was talking about this last night with my Outlaws who were both heavy smokers up until their 50’s and have been non-smokers for about 30yrs now. They were both still very defensive towards cigarettes and couldn’t see anything wrong with the rise of vaping amongst school kids.

Personally, I think Rishi’s cigarette ban is a pretty empty gesture. It’s an easy legacy for him. From what I see, working in Glasgow and living in a wee post industrial town in central Scotland, actual smoking has declined hugely. Really, the only people I ever see smoking nowadays are either standing outside the pub, or are smoking weed. Vaping is huge though, people haven’t quit the habit, they’ve just switched to vapes, and I’m fine with that as at least it’s a bit healthier. What bothers me though is the number of kids that are vaping. Certainly, where I live, it seems like every other kid over the age of 12 is walking along with their phone in one hand and a vape in the other. I’m not sure if they’re going to be a ‘gateway’ to cigarettes as someone else mentioned, but it does concern me that we seem to have a whole generation of kids growing up who are addicted to nicotine.

How is that a good thing?

There has been far less of a decline (around 0.3%) since 2020.  And with the current push in movies and fashion to make smoking cool again it may be about to go back up again.

At some point it’s going to slow, the new uptake would give better figures. I’ve not noticed movies or fashion pushing smoking more than it has in the last decade or so.

I’ve not noticed movies or fashion pushing smoking more than it has in the last decade or so.

Posted earlier but here you go.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/smoking-cool-fashion-saltburn-trend-b2504079.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/smoking-ban-generation-alpha-vote-b2529470.html

Yeah I seen that earlier. I still can’t say I’ve noticed it being any different.

But as others have pointed out, if you look at wider societal costs, alcohol and sugar/processed foods are probably similar costs, so should also be banned.

There’s been a big push on reducing processed foods, not that successfully, there’s a sugar tax and companies have reduced sugar in many products. Alcohol being so cheap in supermarkets needs addressed though.

With regards to NHS savings…..

A few years ago I used to work putting together event stands for Philip Morris, the tabacco company, at political party rallies in Germany.

Built stands for all of the political parties except the Greens and the AFD. At these events there would be stands from all the major car makers, defence industries, gambling bodies, McDonald’s, energy concerns, local and national breweries… Basically all those who contribute to societies problems and environmental degradation.

Turns out Germany is the largest EU producer of (non-counterfeit) tabacco products. Philipp Morris chuck loads of money at all the parties, regardless of their leaning.

One year, they had posters (that we were told not to photograph and only display once the conference was underway) detailing a study they carried out for the Czech government….

The gist was let people smoke.

When you let people smoke they have a sense of freedom. It gives people something to look forward to and brings people together.

Smokers pay more in tax, once from their wages, secondly on the purchase of tabacco products. They also, on average, don’t live as long as non-smokers and therefore save the government thousands in pension payouts and associated health costs of old age.

We used to keep all the hundreds of 200 boxes from the likes of Marlborough, Camel etc and use them as payment for the forklift drivers or security for looking after our gear whilst we went for lunch.

And with the current push in movies and fashion to make smoking cool again it may be about to go back up again.

I watched Peaky Blinders and really wanted a roll up.

In the case of alcohol it’s much more severe if you get really addicted, whereas for cigarettes you could get lucky and despite smoking a packet per day for most of your life live to 90 and die from something unrelated to smoking.

Smokers on average live 10 years less and nearly half will die of a smoking related illness. Not great odds.

Im conflicted on this one. On the face of it I agree as the health benefits and associated costs smoking causes to the NHS make it a clear good thing to do.

But.

I am fundamentally against restricting peoples choices and freedoms to do as they choose where ever possible.

As others  have said you could make the same argument for alcohol.

I have no idea how it will work in practice. Are all shop workers now meant to ask everyone for ID as it will soon become impossible to tell if some one is 35 or 33 and one legally can buy them and one cant.

Making stuff illegal doesn’t work. Look at the so called war on drugs. An absolute failure and yet somehow everyone thinks this wont happen with tobacco. I’ve always been in favour of the legalisation of all class A B and C drugs as a far more cost effective and public health way of controlling them than trying to ban them. I guess tobacco could now become the new gateway drug into the criminal gangs that are no doubt gearing up to supply the market.

As others  have said you could make the same argument for alcohol.

I have no idea how it will work in practice. Are all shop workers now meant to ask everyone for ID as it will soon become impossible to tell if some one is 35 or 33 and one legally can buy them and one cant.

Making stuff illegal doesn’t work. Look at the so called war on drugs.

Already been covered several times in this thread.

Apart form maybe the ID thing.  The answer is yes, you ask people for ID.

But as others have pointed out, if you look at wider societal costs, alcohol and sugar/processed foods are probably similar costs, so should also be banned.

Govts of any stripe mess with alcohol and food at their peril, and the manufacturers of both know that. We used to have pretty strict rules introduced in 2003 about the levels of salt in processed food (world leading at the time) that ha both been watered down  and the emphasis shifted to personal accountability, sugar reduction and calorie counting (strong evidence about their lack of effectiveness) when the Tories came to power (natch). It looks like they’re doing something, when in fact; its meaningless. The damage to the nations health (and the secondary effects it has on the security of the food chain and climate change) of highly processed food is probably the next public health battle waiting in the wings.

And if you accept the personal liberty argument, then clearly all drugs should be legalised (and taxed) which will make the Tories heads explode.

I think you’ll find that the libertarian streak is often to be found in the ranks of the right wing, and interfering with your fun is a left-wing staple. (see the Temperance movement et al.)

I’ve not noticed movies or fashion pushing smoking more than it has in the last decade or so.

I’ve started watching 3 body problem on Netflix, It’s interesting given this thread, in so much that a plot point hinges on two women smoking, and another of the characters is told off by his boss about smoking in the office, and reveals that he sacked the person complaining about it. I’ve watched just a couple of episodes, and the amount of “incidental” smoking is noticeable.