slow hand clap for Boris

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  • slow hand clap for Boris
  • soobalias
    Member

    earphones.
    really?

    really?

    im pretty sure that recent road deaths in london have no link with shoe-laces, i demand their prohibition immediately.

    *goes for a ride dressed in black, with black earphones and no lid*

    Earphones are the new helmet apparently

    Reminds me of that school shooting in the US where they wanted to ban kids wearing trenchcoats in the aftermath. Because the kid had concealed weapons inside one.

    IHN
    Member

    He has a point, it’s just not the point on this occasion.

    What he’s deftly done is move the debate away from HGVs.

    edlong
    Member

    I find myself agreeing that there’s a significant number of road users who are a danger to themselves and others when wearing headphones, and they should be made to stop it. They are, by and large, pedestrians though, so Boris’ latest wheeze won’t help any more than people are made safer by, I dunno, painting the road blue.

    I’m going to stop wearing a helmet on the road on general principle I think, they’re not even designed to protect at road speeds, let alone under the wheels of a lorry, and all I’m doing is perpetuating the idea that I’m undertaking some sort of dangerous extreme sport rather than using an eminently sensible, efficient and low impact form of urban transport. I’m starting to get a bit cross about all this.

    ninfan
    Member

    Are you people foolish?

    Journo plants sensationalist question, ‘do you support ban on headphones’ – gets perfectly reasonable answer, Journo releases story as ‘Boris supports headphone ban’

    Boris gets blame for changing focus, in fact its Journo creating an outrage out of nothing.

    He has a point, it’s just not the point on this occasion.

    What he’s deftly done is move the debate away from HGVs.

    Agreed. 👿

    edlong
    Member

    If Boris can’t grasp how to change attitudes of road users towards safely and responsibly using the roads, maybe he could learn from some small children who are making a better job of it than him:

    Linky

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    edlong, I mainly wear a helmet in winter so I can use the peak to keep the low sun out of my eyes, and when it’s really cold, so I can wear a buff without looking like some sort of hippy. In the summer I generally don’t bother.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Better than admitting his blue highways of death might be at fault

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    They should have been banned ages ago. Damn stupid idea.

    Then get on with the more difficult process of how to make roads safer, once you’ve stopped people doing blatantly stupid things.

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    So everyone on this thread supports banning the deaf from riding in cities?

    ninfan
    Member

    Have a listen to the actual discussion

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kkx9j

    The discussion regards headphones is brought up by a caller, starting about 30 minutes into the show – Boris says they’re a problem, but also points his finger very squarely at the risk to pedestrians wearing headphones as well.

    He also quite robustly makes the argument against helmet compulsion, makes the point on cyclists having a right to be on the road and to roadspace, puts Vanessa Feltz in her box a good few times and the rest of the discussion is very pro cycling and he discusses many of the challenges in an in depth fashion with extensive knowledge of the issues.

    The response from some areas of the cycling community is bordering on histrionic, anything that remotely suggests cyclists need to take care is being jumped on as some form of attack on cyclists in general, blaming them for whats happened – which simply doesn’t bear fruit when you listen to whats actually been said!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Darwinism innit? Ride through a really buy cities streets without the ability to hear what’s going on around you? Why not give ’em a blindfold too. The gene pools better off without ’em.

    Mind you… You could say the same about people squeezing them selves up the inside, between the kerb and a left-turning artic!

    sobriety
    Member

    So everyone on this thread supports banning the deaf from riding in cities?

    Except that they’re, by and large, born like it, and therefore have other senses that have improved to compensate. Unfortunately sticking in earphones doesn’t have this effect.

    On another note, I never realised how much I use my ears cycling until I rode a motorbike, not being able to hear felt very strange.

    I wouldn’t ban earphones though, choice, innit.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The response from some areas of the cycling community is bordering on histrionic

    Was TJ on there?

    Premier Icon simon1975
    Subscriber

    The more media coverage the better. EVERYONE needs to take more care.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    not a headphone in sight;

    The more media coverage the better. EVERYONE needs to take more care.

    I agree that everyone needs to take more care but as for media coverage, I disagree. I’ve had to switch off several of these recent phone ins about the deaths ‘cos the people phoning in, who presumably reflect society in general, scare the crap out of me with their attitudes towards cyclists. Until this attitude is sorted out, cyclists will continue to be 3rd rate road users

    So everyone on this thread supports banning the deaf from riding in cities?

    No. And I’m not in favour of banning blind people from walking in towns and cities either, but I don’t want normally sighted people to intentionally wear blindfolds.

    ndthornton
    Member

    goes for a ride dressed in black, with black earphones and no lid

    Thats exactly how Iv riden to work for the past 3 years

    ajc
    Member

    Ahh the old I’m not dead yet so it must be safe routine. I believe smokers fell for that for a while too.

    hora
    Member

    When I see people cycling with earphones I think they are bloody crackers. You need ALL your senses when commuting. To be destracted by cool music- its turns it almost into a video game IMO.

    Why the ire at Boris? You know, as a car driver DAILY I see idiots on bikes with inadequate lights, black/dark clothing, no helmet etc etc.

    ti_pin_man
    Member

    hora +1 – I agree with Boris, headphones in london traffic, on yer bike, is nuts. but this is distracting from the better subject which is that of banning HGV’s at rush hour. I agree they should be banned from moving at rush hour, say 8-10am and then 4-6pm. Every little helps and that surely gives them enough time to do their deliveries in-between.

    edlong
    Member

    The discussion regards headphones is brought up by a caller, starting about 30 minutes into the show – Boris says they’re a problem, but also points his finger very squarely at the risk to pedestrians wearing headphones as well.

    He also quite robustly makes the argument against helmet compulsion, makes the point on cyclists having a right to be on the road and to roadspace, puts Vanessa Feltz in her box a good few times and the rest of the discussion is very pro cycling and he discusses many of the challenges in an in depth fashion with extensive knowledge of the issues.

    Thanks for making the effort ninfan. I’ll put my hand up and confess to a knee jerk reaction based on how it was reported yesterday. It does look a little different put in its proper context. I’ll try and remember this next time I post something ill-informed – I don’t think I’m the only forum user who could benefit from reflecting on this a bit.

    I still think Boris is an arse though.

    hora
    Member

    HGV’s should be banned in certain times. Even MrsHora (non-biker) is horrified at the daily reports now.

    I’m GLAD the press is focusing on this- there are always cyclist deaths however the media’s short-term attention span is ‘great’ to hilight the tragedy and wrongs on both sides.

    freeagent
    Member

    I thought Boris put himself across pretty well in that interview.

    I’m with him on the headphones though, as I think it is crazy wiping out one of your senses, just when you need them the most.

    ndthornton
    Member

    [/quote]Ahh the old I’m not dead yet so it must be safe routine.

    Its not that at all – just a rational assessment of the risks using my own common sense rather than blindly following what is fed to me.
    Id never smoke as the risks are far too high.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Sometimes my ride to the dirt involves some boring fire roads. I’ve ridden them a thousand times and to alleviate the boredom I wore sone earphones.
    I got lost. The music stopped me paying attention and I missed my turn off. Therefore i think its a bad thing.
    Ps how loud must you have your music to hear it above traffic noise?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    ^^^ loving the implications that deaf cyclists have developed the ability to sense traffic coming up behind them, is that some form of radar or is it more like a spidey-sense?

    Im a headphone cyclist and Im still alive!(yes I know example of one) been cycling to work in london for 10ish years now, currently do a 20mile round trip 5 days a week

    Ive listened to my ipod ever since I started, I dont have my music deafeningly loud, nor do I use noise cancelling headphones, so I can still hear traffic when it gets close, the general noise of traffic in london is so loud that almost any vehicle could come up behind you unnoticed and my headphones certainly dont drown out the noise.

    I like listening to music as it helps me relax and focus on a pretty intense hour of cycling each way, sometimes I dont really notice it, sometimes I sing along.

    Its possible Ive developed a 6th sense to warn me of approaching vehicles or Ive just been very lucky, but generally I just assume that theres a car/bus/HGV/motorbike about to come up behind me at all times, this, I think, helps keep me safe, that and being sensible at junctions roundabouts and importantly around buses and lorries.

    hora
    Member

    IIts not ‘how loud’ its destraction and possible falling into middle thought/day dreaming?

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    IIts not ‘how loud’ its destraction and possible falling into middle thought/day dreaming?

    same as car drivers then, any call for car radios to be banned? No

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Aracer posted guardian link on other thread so I’ll repeat myself

    He (DCS Jones) said he shared Johnson’s worries about headphones. “There is, I think, good call for lorries to have audible warning signals when they’re turning left, but cyclists with headphones won’t hear them.

    so wearing earphones prevents cyclists from hearing an audible warning that lorries don’t currently have?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I want to know whether this cyclist had their headphones on and didn’t hear the train turning left.

    The driver would have got away with it if it weren’t for those pesky folk on twitter.

    Premier Icon phiiiiil
    Subscriber

    Unless everyone else’s headphones are much better than mine I always notice how far up you have to turn the volume as soon as you go outside, even when it seems fairly quiet. My ipod doesn’t go up anywhere near loud enough to block out a nearby truck!

    ndthornton
    Member

    stuff in front of me I can see with my eyes.
    Stuff behind me I cant see – but could hear better without headphones.
    But what exactly do I do with this extra information about stuff approaching from behind?
    I cant distinguish between an overtaking vehicle and one about to plough into the back of me……so

    …headphones help to take my mind off the very, very small chance of being run down by a lorry in circumstances I could do nothing about anyway.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    But what exactly do I do with this extra information about stuff approaching from behind?

    It makes you turn your head.

    I cant distinguish between an overtaking vehicle and one about to plough into the back of me

    I can. Maybe you need more practice using your ears? 🙂 I suspect you would be able to tell, to be honest.

    ndthornton
    Member

    It makes you turn your head.

    for every overtaking vehicle – you must get neck ache!

    I can….

    No you cant

    I can’t wait until the day i see this fat idiot pedaling around London.

    I’d call him a moron, but he isn’t. He’s got everyone talking about the rights and wrongs of wearing headphones when its utterly irrevelant to the latest deaths.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    No you cant

    You’ve no idea!

    dirk_pumpa
    Member

    Those with road savvy know that earphones won’t hinder them.

    Those that think conforming to the rules of the road, dressing like a christmas tree and wearing a helmet will see them safe are deluded.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    What about savvy people who also wear a helmet and high viz and follow the rules?

    dirk_pumpa
    Member

    The first two won’t get you into any trouble, following the rules might get you killed.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    If you were a savvy cyclist you’d know what a silly statement that was.

    You have to ride well within the rules. There’s a lot that the rules don’t cover, it’s called cycle craft.

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