Anyone recommend a good mtb instructor that can give me some pointers on how to avoid hitting rocks and stones when biking?

I’m very much a wheels on the ground kind of rider, with a liking for long/techie routes.
My Occam came with alloy DTSwiss 1650 wheels, which I understand are rebadged old 1500s. They’ve been brilliant, but I wanted something lighter weight to put some lighter tyres on for longer, more mellow rides.

So I splashed the cash on some DTSwiss 1501 XMC “All Mountain ” wheels and have been using them occasionally for the last 9 months on my more sedate rides.

Alas I discoved a skelf of carbon fibre delamination from the rim on the side of the wheel. Not an issue I thought, and send them off to DTSwiss to be sorted under warranty.

“No” says DTSwiss, “you’ve clearly hit something”

“Yes” says me ” of course I have. It’s a mountain bike wheel, I’ve hit hundreds of things, possibly thousands of them. Every time I go for ride I get stones of varying sizes pinging up and some of them might end up hitting the wheel. It’s utterly inevitable that a MTB wheel will get hit by flying rocks.

But DTSwiss have insisted that impacts from stones are not covered by their warranty.

Which is a concern for me, as I can recall multiple times when I’ve hit stones whilst cycling which have clattered into the rim. Clearly I’ve been doing it wrong.

I had assumed that “All Mountain Wheels” would be OK to be ridden in areas of loose rocks and stones, but that’s not the case, so I need to change my riding style…

So how do y’all do it?
Is there a knack that allows you to miss all the stones on the trail?
What about when the trail IS just rocks, do you get off and walk?
Or just go really slowly so as not to dislodge anything… sub walking pace?
Or just do a big heinous jump to the next patch of mud/ grass?
Or do you take another set of wheels ( not DTSwiss Carbon) to swap over when you get to a rough bit?
Or do you just ride on road and then photoshop the gnarr in afterwards?

Tell me…

Thats easy.

You hit the rocks you see so…. shut your eyes.

Note, this doesn’t work for trees.

Ride a road bike then ?

My alloy MTB wheels are full of chips and scratches.

Don’t look at the things you don’t want to hit.

When you come to a rock garden you get off and walk……very carefully pick the bike up and gentle place it down again when you get back to the smooth trail.
But yep, my wheels are scratched and nicked to bits. Always been to scared to spend the same on my mountain bike wheels as I do on my road bike wheels just for the fact that I’m rather crashy and not that very good on the mtb!

When you come to a rock garden you get off and walk……very carefully pick the bike up and gentle place it down again when you get back to the smooth trail.

good point. push up… carry down never fails

For components it’s been said:

Strong light cheap. Pick two.

I think the same may be said for riding styles, perhaps:
Long | gnarly | fast. Pick two.

For components it’s been said:

Strong light cheap. Pick two.

Mm. I’d settle for two of those TBH. All I got was “light”

That’s annoying. I think the roval carbons I got have a similar warranty which sounds great but in small print doesn’t cover object strikes.

I think reserve rims have a genuine lifetime warranty so if you want to spend another £580(!) you could get it rebuilt with one of them.

Can’t wait for my rims to inevitably get mashed by rocks. They’ve survived nearly a year so far 🤞

Wheels get mashed mountain biking. Riding over rocks is fun. Just accept they won’t last forever and get on with it.

Rovals don’t have a rock or crash damage warranty but they have a crash replacement scheme.

Sixth Element offer a full crash warranty if purchased with the wheels.

Saying that we have run Roval Carbons and Sixth Element wheels for years hitting alsorts and not had a problem.
Today’s 9 mile 2000m drop ride on the 601 trail above Lake Garda was rock after rock, technical and steep. Both bikes on Sixth Element. Mine are new for the mullet. Kevin’s were our daughters old ones from 2017 which have done 2 seasons Enduro and DH racing before going on the Turbo Levo. There is a spoke that needs a tweek on the back wheel but we knew that before we started the trip.

My old Sixth Element ones were five years old and still good. Removed them from the bike before selling it and will sell them separately

We don’t run tyre inserts and 22psi front 24psi rear.

Is the wheel still rideable or damaged beyond salvage

That’s useless. I shall remember this if I am ever looking to buy DT Swiss carbon wheels.

I think reserve rims have a genuine lifetime warranty so if you want to spend another £580(!) you could get it rebuilt with one of them.

Are they actually good or do they just have priced-in replacements?

Is the wheel still rideable or damaged beyond salvage

Rideable, but not sure for how long. I was planning on sticking some carbon fibre and resin on it to try to keep it working, then replace it with a decent rim.
6th element quoted £400 for a new rim, fitted. Which is a bit of a blow, but you know how it is: buy expensive, buy twice. Or something.

In my experience, a rock strike that dings a carbon rim will severely dent an aluminium one. It’s just a fact of life that anything ridden off-road will get scratched and dented. The problem with carbon is that when it needs replacing it’s flippin’ expensive.

I usually have my man walk ahead and clear the rocks before I swoop in and make the trail come alive

Learn to jump the difficult to ride bits.

At least that’s what my son’s downhill coach seems to do when he rides.

I usually have my man walk ahead and clear the rocks before I swoop in and make the trail come alive

Can he not use his body to smooth over the rocks?

Completely worthless warranty so and would definitely put me off buying carbon rims (if the price already hadn’t). As OP inferred, lifetime warranty as long as you don’t use them for their intended purpose.

Pretty unusual for a loose rockstrike to damage a wheel though, they generally don’t have much force. I don’t think they think that’s what happened- I think they think you dinged the wheel properly off a rock.

+1 for the sixth element lifetime warranty. Had call to use it a few weeks ago as destroyed the rear. Replaced with no issues / quibbles and was back up and running in a few days.

I’ll take them if you’re going to chuck em out 😉
I ran the xmc 1200s at 25mm on my 150mm trail bike in Whistler and squamish and they took an absolute battering and kept on trucking. Infact they’re downcyled on my kids race bike now. Front bearings need doing though
On the flip side, 2nd ride on a.n.other carbon rear wheel and I broke it. Repaired it at home and I’m 2 seasons in with zero bother.
Turns out my lezyne track pump says 20psi at 14psi.. that’ll do it.

I’d epoxy that skelf back in place with a quick clamp to hold it place while it cures then crack on.

Worth noting, my experience with the brilliant DT tech support staff back in the day is that they didn’t have much tolerance for JRA warranty complaints but would sort you out if you told them the rad story of how you actually broke it 😉

@thegeneralist

Just ride trail centres?

Don’t buy anymore DT Swiss wheels and carry on riding exactly like you do would be my suggestion vs changing your riding style to comply with the warranty requirements of a set of wheels.

More air in tyres?

But DTSwiss have insisted that impacts from stones are not covered by their warranty.

Why would they? Warranties are for manufacturing defects. Rims – especially on mountain bikes, are replaceable parts that wear out or get damaged, replace them when they worn out or get damaged to the point that they are irreparable. This is as true of carbon rims as it is for alu ones.

Because stones strikes come with normal use. As above, other manufacturers do offer such warranty so it’s not an absurd expectation that warranty would cover normal use.

Sure as a sales gimmick to get people to pony up for carbon wheels. Off the top of my head, Reserve, Enve, and Race face (used to at least they had that ad with the guy backing his truck over the wheel), had no fault warranties, but all of them have fair use clauses, and they’re still mostly limited to defects and build quality.

Rims are still consumable items whichever way you look at it. They’re going to break.

I don’t think coaching is going to help you avoid mangling your wheels particularly. They might be able to give you some guidance on picking lines – but mtb wheels get bashed / scratched – it’s just a fact of life. All my wheels are DT Swiss alloy (xm481 / xm421) and they just shrug the abuse off. They don’t all look very pretty but they’re still intact / straight etc. I have thought about carbon for mtb but just decided personally to go with middle of the road alloy rims that aren’t too heavy but are decently strong.

Warranty is against defects in their manufacturing. I can’t imagine they’re responsible for you twatting stuff. I don’t think Hyundai would appreciate me smashing my alloys into a pothole then expecting them to pay for a refurb.

Also, crash replacement schemes are not warranties.

I dont bother with carbon rims on a mountain bike for the reasons you have identified – they break too easily.

Went through several rear carbon rims a while back, eventually ditched them and went back to alu rims. It seems (although I havent tried every single carbon rim out there – and am unlikely to now ) that to get a carbon rim that is as tough as an equivalent type of alu rim -or at least with a warranty that covers impact damage – you need to spend a stupid amount of money.

I’ll stick to alu rims that cost a fraction of carbon rims , but last a lot longer before they need replacing.

+1 for decent alu.
Having said that, I do have a very old set of lightbicycle rims that are still going fine despite rock gouges, divots, scuffs etc. They look battered, but are still fine. I don’t know if lightbicycle are still cost effective now though.

Nickc is right, even reserve don’t cover ‘other impacts’. Perhaps if they were feeling generous, but unlikely I suspect:

The warranty for damage arising from accidents, crashes and other impacts is limited to offered replacement at a reduced charge as set forth above.

https://www.reservewheels.com/warranty

In that case I’d stick to alu.

Op can you post a picture of the damage out of interest? Also is it front or rear?

How to avoid hitting rocks? Try not to ride straight into the really big, sharp-edged ones would be my take.

And if you’re regularly dinging rims look at tyre pressures, tyre construction – go heavier maybe – and/or look at inserts perhaps.

But if you’re riding Peak, Lakes, Scotland etc, you’re going to hit rocks.

Thankfully I can’t afford carbon rims.

@thegeneralist

Did DT Swiss at least offer a rebuild for €249 or whatever they charge in £? It’s their extended fair-use carbon warranty thingy.

Doh, back again
Photo…

The wheel clearly got a good smack from a tumbling rock at some point.

Saying that we have run Roval Carbons and Sixth Element wheels for years hitting alsorts and not had a problem.
Today’s 9 mile 2000m drop ride on the 601 trail above Lake Garda was rock after rock, technical and steep.

Mmm indeed. And my 1650s have survived similar. In fact if the 1650s had died I wouldn’t begrudge paying for replacements in the slightest. But these carbon ones have barely been used on anything gnarly. That’s what pisses me off, I actually nearly bought the XC wheels but thought I’d play it safe and get the “All Mountain” wheels.

Pretty unusual for a loose rockstrike to damage a wheel though, they generally don’t have much force. I don’t think they think that’s what happened- I think they think you dinged the wheel properly off a rock.

Yep, they may well think that, but it would have had to be a bloody weird shaped rock. The impact mark is more towards the top of the rim than the sides, and I run them with big fat 2.6″ tyres, so I can’t see how it could have been a stationary rock

Don’t buy anymore DT Swiss wheels and carry on riding exactly like you do would be my suggestion vs changing your riding style to comply with the warranty requirements of a set of wheels.

Agreed

More air in tyres?

I tend to have my tyres fairly hard tbh.

Warranty is against defects in their manufacturing. I can’t imagine they’re responsible for you twatting stuff. I don’t think Hyundai would appreciate me smashing my alloys into a pothole then expecting them to pay for a refurb.

The warranty should cover defects in design and materials as well as manufacturing. If Carbon Fibre isn’t suitable for making all mountain wheels ( as many people above seem to be saying) then they shouldn’t sell them. Rock strikes are an integral part of off road biking.
The comparison with a family car is daft.

Did DT Swiss at least offer a rebuild for €249 or whatever they charge in £? It’s their extended fair-use carbon warranty thingy.

Yep, €302 Euros they wanted.
I considered that as they had me over a barrel TBH, but am going to cough the additional €250 odd and try Sixth Element.

Rewarding DTSwiss for their shit product/ service by giving them more money isn’t an option. Too much like paying for express security at Liverpool Airport fior my liking:-)
And besides, having paid my additional 300 Euros, I’d still have a pair of not very good carbon wheels….

At least this way I hopefully get some quality for my £420.

Yep, €302 Euros they wanted.

WTF? €249 was already a chunk for a crash rebuild service, perhaps not terrible but hardly generous, so it takes the piss to ask for another €53 over what their website says. In your shoes I sure I’d do the same and take the hub to a local builder.

Hard to tell from the photo how deep it is but I’d be tempted to keep riding it. After putting some tape over it of course.

pretty disappointing, but the rim isn’t actually broken. did they give you an opinion of how safe the wheel would be to ride?

I’d be inclined to keep riding the wheel as it is, but at the moment i generally ride laps rather than loops, so i’m never that far from the car and i’ve never actually broken a carbon rim. i used one pair frequently for about 8 years.

big rides that would result in a long walk, i’d be less inclined.

we are one and nobl will replace your rim if you break it while riding.

Purely cosmetic, frustrating sure, but as I said above, epoxy and a quick clamp.
Wet and dry once dry and carry on regardless.
FWIW, I invisi/ridewrap all my frames as I’m precious. That wheel…I would be disappointed but wouldn’t stop me riding them.

If Carbon Fibre isn’t suitable for making all mountain wheels ( as many people above seem to be saying) then they shouldn’t sell them.

It’s fine for wheels, I don’t think anyone is saying that they’re not suitable, just that like any rim, regardless of material, it’s a part on your bike that’s liable to get damaged. Face it, if these were 3 or 4 years old, you’d not be so worried, but that kind of damage can happen at any point, just you’ve been unlucky is all. It sucks, but it’s nobody’s fault, them’s the breaks sometimes

as @BearBack suggests, epoxy it back, and get on with riding.