im shopping for the new season in the sales form last. I’ve decided to go shell jacket as I want the use of a really good goretex jacket for dog walking etc, but struggling for a mid layer. I run pretty hot, previously layered with Helly Hanson cheapy base layer and Helly Hanson 1/4 zip technical mid layer with an insulated ski jacket on top that’s now well past it’s best. I’m assuming that without the insulation in the coat, I’ll need to step it up a bit but not sure what with. There seem to be a fair number of puffer style jackets but can’t help but think they are very expensive and I’ll boil. Are modern fleeces better than the old ones? (Not bought a fleece in 20 years!)

pointers / ideas please!

Any decent fleece from a good manufacturer will be fine for that. For piste skiing I use a merino base layer and a fairly heavy fleece under a goretex shell.

I run hot as well and use a goretex shell with a base layer underneath.  If it’s a bit cold (-10°C) I add a thin fleece (100 weight).  If it’s really cold (-20°C)  I add a 200 weight fleece as well.

Most of the time I’m just in a base layer with my goretex shell unzipped and flapping around.  Zip it up and maybe put a hat on for the lifts.

Pretty much same as wwpaddler. Only difference is I have a thin fleece gilet as my first step up from just a base layer.

Fleece neck gaiter and/or buff in jacket pocket in case it gets cold or for sitting on long exposed lifts. Used be be a beanie hat before the days of helmets.

I actually run pretty cold but still normally only have a base layer (archteryx of varying thickness cos even the finest virgin unicorn merino makes me itch!) then an old homies merino t shirt and finally a thin fleece – current one is a hagloffs one from a sale somewhere. If it’s trult baltic (<-10C during the day) I’ll add a synthetic insulating layer too…

shell and a couple of layers always used to do me until I stupidly bought an insulated jacket

waaay to f’in hot most of the time

Assuming you’re not primarily skiing in Scotland you lot have a weird definition of “ski hot”.

I use a short sleeve thermal with a goretex shell on top. Thin trousers and non insulated sallies.

If it gets chilly then a long sleeve thermal as well.

That option does me down to about minus ten on the continent.

Obviously if I’m in Scotland then I’ll pack a fleece too. And perhaps even go for fleece trousers if it’s really grim

Actually. Caveat that…

The bestest everest thing to buy to regulate heat is a huge snood.

In the pocket

Round your neck, collar open

Round the neck, collar closed

Lifted up to the goggle line

Fully over your head

Those four main.options cover a heuge range of temperatures for me.

I’m not talking about a pissy little fleece snood, or a thin one, I’m talking one of the decathlon fleece/ material combo efforts that are about a foot and a half long

Awesumz

Assuming you’re not primarily skiing in Scotland you lot have a weird definition of “ski hot”.

Are you carrying natural insulation? 😉

this is the blighter. So big that it doubles as an emergency sleeping bag for any small kids in your party.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/hug-technique-ad-scarf-id_8397932.html

Are you carrying natural insulation?

True. 🙂

Actually in truth I think it’s because I’m always off piste. I have pretty shit technique so use huge amounts of energy.

And I’m a chubber

Assuming you’re not primarily skiing in Scotland you lot have a weird definition of “ski hot”.

But you then describe almost exactly the same layering system as those who said they ski hot so looks like we ski just as hot as you do?

Hmm, now I’m wondering if I’m actually cold as I seem to wear more than everyone else here – although I’m too warm a lot of the time!

right you are, stop worrying about it and grab a fleece of some description next time I’m shopping and jobs a goodun. I suspect my old Salamon jacket was so shit that a really good shell will be as warm!

I used to use fleeces under my shell jackets, but now tend to go for a thicker wind stopper mid layer. I got a burton w/s hoodie for Christmas and it’s awesome. So warm that I can actually ski without a jacket down to about -1 or -2.

The other route I’ve gone is for really thin layers, but with an engineered fabric texture. I’ve got a couple of these – it’s basically a thin polyester but with 5mm x1mm hexagonal dimples stamped into the surface. These trap a tiny bubble of air very effectively but are much less bulky than a regular fleece. One of those combined with a merino base layer and I’ll be toastie.

For glacier days (<-20) it’ll be long sleeve merino, crinkly layer, wind stopper then shell.

Buffs are awesome too. Especially the ones with a fleece part and the thin part sewn together.

But you then describe almost exactly the same layering system as those who said they ski hot so looks like we ski just as hot as you do

My comment was mainly aimed at the OP and next poster. One look at your username made me conclude that you know all about proper bone chilling wet cold.

I have very little natural insulation, plus Raynaud syndrome means I can’t afford to chill too much on chairs or my hands go numb. I usually end up with about four layers. This summer I’ve discovered Brynje (polyester string vest) and it’s brilliant under a drysuit for kayaking – it seems to keep me warm without overheating, and I’ll be trying it for skiing.

I’d look at something like the Alpkit Apogee or Arcteryx Atom etc as a mid layer, can also be worn without a shell which will breath better on warmer days..

https://www.alpkit.com/products/apogee-jacket-mens

Fleeces etc are far heavier for the warmth than synthetic insulation. Synthetic insulation also packs down much smaller so easy to take off and stow if you’re too warm.

I use an asortment if fleece and Marino in different thickness plus I picked up a really light synthetic jerkin from Finisterre which is perfect when it’s propper Baltic. Important thing for me it to make sure it all works together and any layer combo doesn’t end up all restrictive, especially round the neck / face with my helmet strap. Too many layers And you just end up with breathability issues

with being unable to sleep last night, a mamouth google session meant I managed to find a hoodless Musto PrimaLoft jacket for less than half price. Thinking was same as above, I can easily take it off and stash it in a pocket (don’t like rucksacks unless off piste and kids do restrict that!) and it’ll be warm as toast on the proper cold days. Plus, I don’t end up with 2 hoods so should be good around the neck. Right, time to find decent merino base layers now!

Plus, I don’t end up with 2 hoods so should be good around the neck. Right, time to find decent merino base layers now!

I don’t like mid layers with hoods either, so just buy jackets – plus wear a helmet skiing, so they’re just excess material.

My most used midlayer is an Alpkit number..

Heiko [Mens]

Many layers, not too thick, and somewhere to put them when you are roasting. I sometimes use a microfleece but it has to be proper cold as it gets way too hot otherwise. Though that’s with a proper jacket.

Layers I’ve got are just any old thermal layers I’ve randomly bought from various shops on various trips, of no particular brand. Some are good enough as a bike top layer. Not so keen on HH base stuff. I just layer stuff loose.

Have always worn a shell jacket for skiing.  Pack the following –

Baselayer – One of:

Howies superfine merino, standard merino, Helly Hansen merino-mix thermal

Then, if needed, a midlayer –

–  300 weight fleece OR puffa type jacket

Neck-  

Always carry a thin buff, usually wear it.  If it’s really cold have a fleece neck thing.

In most conditions its standard merino, fleece and buff with vents and main zip adding venting when needed.  The other options are if it’s unusually warm or cold.  Can’t imagine wearing an insulated jacket anywhere I’ve skiied in Europe

Can’t imagine wearing an insulated jacket anywhere I’ve skiied in Europe

By far the most common ski wear choice in Europe / just about any resort…..

By far the most common ski wear choice in Europe / just about any resort…

sure – I see it.  Don’t understand it though – I can only think that I’ve always been a fairly energetic/aggressive skiier who runs hot. Maybe the majority drift down a few gentle runs and then go to lunch.  I’ve always skiied with people better than myself so had to push it.

Depends on time of year. If you ski March / April, you can ski in a t-shirt sometimes. January it’s hit and miss and depends on the season, but could be warm, or could be freezing with blizzard like conditions.

I maximise the lift pass and will go out when it’s dumping it, so the jacket has to be fairly waterproof, which is the insulated type stuff usually.

But then I also ski a lot in North America and it can get damn cold (Banff this year got to -29C, though I’ve been there before and skiing in slush).

Fleeces etc are far heavier for the warmth than synthetic insulation. Synthetic insulation also packs down much smaller so easy to take off and stow if you’re too warm.

Offset against fleeces usually being cheaper,far longer lasting and quicker drying if they do get damp.

Patagonia R1 full zip is my favourite mid layer.

I would get a jacket made of Dermizax NX. Far more breathable which is the key to a good shell. It will stop you overheating.

If you insist on goretex, I suggest a norrona lofoten jacket. It is a great design that offsets some of the weaknesses of goretex.

Winter sports are generally a battle between too hot and too cold in the same day.  I have been through all the shell/ insulated jacket permutations, and find that the best thing I have ever bought is a 10L (I think) tiny lightweight rucksack to put an extra layer in for under a shell when it gets cold.  I used to look at people wearing rucksacks and think are they mad…. all that extra weight and straps etc, but am now a convert.  I don’t even realise I’m wearing it.  The other good thing is you can take ALL the stuff out from your 649 pockets covering your ski gear and put it all in one pocket in the rucksack.  No more searching for stuff and checking zips are done up etc.  And you can easily clip your helmet and gloves to it when you are not using them.

As for the neck gaiter things the Mons Royale mesh one is a godsend.  It never gets wet from breathing and no stupid air hole to try to locate.

For about 80% of the season, I’ll be in a merino base layer (long sleeve), light prima-loft insulated mid layer (Rab) and a shell jacket.

Often add an extra short-sleeve merino when it’s chilly.

If it’s really cold, switch the prima-loft for a down mid-layer. Been known to wear both when it’s sub -20.

Spring, merino+shell or merion+softshell.

On the legs, merino + shell pants. Double merino when it’s cold, ditch it in the Spring.

Always have a buff over my face/neck, the sun/wind burn will over-power any sunblock when you’re out all day, every day!