Where do you start?

It continues / adds to the ‘British exceptionalism’ which does great damage to the country economically and socially due to our refusal to see our neigbours as anything other than enemies.

It continues / perpetuates the Tory wet dream that the NHS is really a charity and should be funded by goodwill / clapping rather than cash.

All of that from an old man’s funeral?

This is the most depressing, joyless, miserable thread I’ve seen on here for quite some time.

yep….and that’s saying something on this site!

blokeuptheroad gets it perfectly in my opinion. Thanks for finding the words that I couldn’t.

This is the most depressing, joyless, miserable thread I’ve seen on here for quite some time.

You’re going to be a right bundle of laughs when we get the Phil the Greek festival of dying thread in a few weeks / days.

It’s easy to subject every single news event to forensic examination to uncover malevolent government manipulation or conspiracy. Sometimes, just sometimes there isn’t any.

And much of the time, there is. No conspiracy in this, but the rush of many of our more nationalist politicians to attach themselves to any bit of ‘Dunkirk/Blitz Spirit’ is what we used to call ‘unseemly’. The tendency to reverse this into attacking anyone who even seems to dissent even a little bit as ‘unpatriotic’ is also now commonplace. Heaven help the newsreader/reporter whose poppy is on their other jacket, or underneath a coat in the pissing rain…

You’re going to be a right bundle of laughs when we get the Phil the Greek festival of dying thread in a few weeks / days.

Thank god for iPlayer/Youtube.

You’re going to be a right bundle of laughs when we get the Phil the Greek festival of dying thread in a few weeks / days.

If you imagine that because I don’t think impugning an old man and his family over his funeral arrangements is seemly, that I must be a bowler wearing flag draped royalist you’d be wrong 😉

Though I won’t be celebrating his or any other death when it comes.

You’re going to be a right bundle of laughs when we get the Phil the Greek festival of dying thread in a few weeks / days.

Mind you….

Do you reckon we might get a Bank Holiday as a result?

Silver linings and all that…

Do you reckon we might get a Bank Holiday as a result?

I think wfh and everything being shut has taken the magic from bank holidays ( not that I skive off on the odd day I wfh – definitely not)

If you imagine that because I don’t think impugning an old man and his family over his funeral arrangements is seemly, that I must be a bowler wearing flag draped royalist you’d be wrong

I don’t imagine that. Actually the way you made your points has been to the point and courteous, although the gratuitous dig about ‘intellectual superiority’ was a bit of a let-down. Otherwise, I have read what you have written and taken it at face value.

One more slight thread digression back on to Phil the Greek.

It is slightly bad timing on his part. For decades every time he went on a foreign junket the officials at the FO had their heads in their hands waiting for the inevitable ‘gaffe’ and having to plan for some hasty behind the scenes diplomacy.

But now, just as he has the opportunity to be the authentic voice of British foreign policy, he is probably going to pop his clogs…

Still…

Captain Sir Tom Moore.

A gent by all accounts and someone who captured the moment and raised a lot of money for a good cause.

Hats off to you, sir. RIP.

His former regiment wasn’t a squadron in the RAF, so why the Battle of Britain element?

What Battle of Britain element, I read there was a fly past by a Dakota which was used for transporting troops

@dannyh thank you. And point taken about the dig. It wasn’t directed at you but in hindsight wasn’t warranted at all. I can see both sides of this, I just feel that all of us (me included) are often too quick to see the bad in people/situations where it isn’t always warranted.

Why don’t we add an extra section to the forum called political chat, then we can talk about the merits of Spd vs flats, which Octavia estate or cheap but amazing coffee bean grinders without it being hijacked and turned into a political rant.

@inbred456;

I don’t think what coffee machine or rate my Octavia threads often descend into politics. You can predict which threads will go that way and not open them if you don’t want to.

@butr:

I’m sorry if you think I’m miserable. I’ll requote myself, I can’t put any finger on it but there was something about an interview I saw that made me very very slightly uncomfortable. I wish I hadn’t but I can’t put that back in the box, and I’m probably wrong. I hope I am. I’m not accusing them (the family) of any of it, the rest was someone (woodster I think) asking what they might get out of it, and me offering a suggestion. No more.

I’m not even sure why I would feel uneasy about the family cashing in on his legacy. But I would.

What Battle of Britain element, I read there was a fly past by a Dakota which was used for transporting troops

The Dakota is part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

Quite what they have a Dakota and Chipmunk for, though, is beyond me.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/display-teams/battle-of-britain-memorial-flight/#:~:text=Dakota,-The%20Douglas%20C47&text=The%20Flight’s%20Dakota%20ZA947%2C%20named,aircrew%20for%20the%20Flight’s%20Lancaster.

This isn’t about Sir Tom Moore, Its about how he may have been taken advantage of by the government, the media, the military, potentially family members and most importantly nationalists.

So to echo Danny’s point, chapeau to Major Tom.

The best way to honour Major Tom is by not confusing the war to liberate Europe with a war ‘against’ Europe. (For context, the Daily Mail Online did this by issuing a commemorative VE day coin last year where the copy in the advert said “Victory over Europe.”)

I think this is why many of us are uneasy, we witness a constant misrepresentation of the war in order to serve a Nationalist agenda, the complete opposite of what the war was about. It’s so wrong it’s not even wrong.

Free thought is under attack. To be critical or sceptical of such a thing will result in an instant accusation of lacking patriotism. I mentioned my father served in Aden. I didnt want to but I was aware that if I included that piece of information it would change how people viewed what I had to say. I virtue signalled and didn’t feel all that good about it.

I’d like to think I could have offered the same opinions as I have without the need to leverage something that is in reality no more than a family connection and does not in fact validate or otherwise what I have to say.

And w00dster, differing perspectives but always appreciate your measured and open minded contributions.

I imagine the flyover is a damn sight easier to organise than it would be organising a convoy of tanks through the town centre.

we witness a constant misrepresentation of the war in order to serve a Nationalist agenda

Free thought is under attack. To be critical or sceptical of such a thing will result in an instant accusation of lacking patriotism.

100%

The two things go hand in hand.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

And to forestall some classic deliberate straw-manning and misrepresentation…

That does not mean I think all people who would be considered patriotic are scoundrels.

I definitely think the government jumped on the bandwagon and used Captain Tom to their advantage. But, and I’m being honest, I’m not political so my eyes are closed go most of what goes on, but I would say the message Boris was getting across was the British public need to look after each other and used the spirit of WW2 to focus this message. But my take on the message was it wasn’t about the battles during the war but about how the civilians rallied around to help each other.
Personally I don’t think there’s any attacks on people in the media or elsewhere for folks being unpatriotic. I’m not patriotic nor are my family members. I have no affection for the crown or the politics and government of this country.
I don’t read the daily mail, but agree with your comments about not conflating VE with victory over Europe.
I thought WW2 was a war based on nationalism? Were the Nazi’s not a militaristic nationalist organisation? (Hugely simplistic but I was under the impression Hitler was allowed to build a strong nationalist state to stop the spread of communism further West)….obviously other failures happened including the Great Depression, Treaty of Versailles and the Policy of Appeasement.

Quite what they have a Dakota and Chipmunk for, though, is beyond me.

The chipmunks are mostly there for training purposes. Means they dont wear out the proper planes keeping up their hours.

For the OP. For whatever reason the press decided to push him as the feelgood story to try and cheer people up and then the government jumped on the bandwagon. I dont think it really means much overall beyond the press finishing off the story.
Personally I found it somewhat grating in terms of the PR effort.

Personally I found it somewhat grating in terms of the PR effort.

That must be due to a lack of patriotism. 😉