Imagine his face this morning when he found out he’d need to take a position on the US bombing Syria. Or will he just wait to see what Boris says and nod in agreement?

I imagine he’s probably quite excited about the Syria bombing. He gets to play the ‘great british patriot’ card and flex his budding warmonger muscles. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see him donning a uniform with some fake medals. 🙂

I think it’s more about having a personality and seeming human.

I think he could manage without a personality if he seemed to have some ideas which hadnt been carefully filtered by a think tank via several focus groups.

He thinks everyone north of Watford is an uneducated, uninformed, lumpen warrior against muslamic rayguns. Hence the (ill-fitting) harrington and the flags and ‘defence is my first priority’. Blimey, can’t be easy at all if you’re a supporter of Sir, but I shall carry on voting LP even if it seems unlikely to make much difference whether he’s elected or not. He anxiously tries so hard to be seen as the man of the establishment that he is, he must envy the panache and elan of some of these Tories to whom it all comes so naturally.
The US presidents always swan about once elected in A-2 leather flying jackets (Obama included) to show they support all the ongoing foreign parts bombing policies. Sir doesn’t look comfortable in his own suit let alone a uniform. Deporting the skinhead look didn’t drum up much Red Wall support going by the polls, what next? Rashford means that he would need to stay away from football to avoid being shown up from the kick-off. Maybe darts? Whippets?

I imagine he’s probably quite excited about the Syria bombing.

Probably: so many opportunities to wave union jacks.

There’s no UK involvement, is there? So while he (and other UK politicians) might be asked their position on what the USA are doing, it’s not really a union jack waving opportunity, is it.

Time to remind ourselves that it was Ed Miliband who kept is out of the Syria conflict.

I think some people would be a lot happier if he was waving a placard

Is that the best you can do?

Well, it’s more entertaining than fantasising about Starmer waving flags and wearing medals because of something Biden is doing that has absolutely nothing to do with the opposition Labour party in the UK, or their party leader.

Time to remind ourselves that it was Ed Miliband who kept is out of the Syria conflict.

Ed Miliband did what he could to keep us from “chaos”. Really wish I’d voted for Labour when he was leader, in hindsight. If it wasn’t for all the tablet of stone controls on immigration stuff, I probably would have.

Well, it’s more entertaining than fantasising about Starmer waving flags and wearing medals because of something Biden is doing that has absolutely nothing to do with the opposition Labour party in the UK, or their party leader.

It was a response to an attack on the US-led coalition in Iraq, of which we’re a member. A perfect opportunity to wave a flag in lieu of any meaningful opposition.

I think we should try and get Iraq on every page of every thread about Labour. It reminds me why I didn’t vote for Labour under Blair and Brown… which I also now regret, in hindsight.

Actually, I just read the story about Mr Potatohead and think it’s the perfect opportunity for Starmer: tough on woke, tough on the causes of woke.

You know that nobody apart from tabloid hacks, Nigel Farage and now you has ever used the word ‘woke’, right?

You know that nobody apart from tabloid hacks, Nigel Farage and now you has ever used the word ‘woke’, right?

You used it in your post: you are Nigel Farage AICMFP.

As for the present flag fetish This pretty much covers it

The depressing reality of Brexit Britain

You used it in your post: you are Nigel Farage AICMFP.

Good come back.

Thanks!

Everyone to the right of Owen Jones is a fascist bastard!

Repeating this obvious truism is a guaranteed route to government

Repeating this obvious truism is a guaranteed route to government

No, you’re right. What we should do instead is wave flags and agree with the Tories. It’s working really well.

Good comeback.

Imagine his face this morning…

Not difficult as he only has 1 expression.

Otters’ noses?

Larks’ tongues?

Not difficult as he only has 1 expression.

Okay, that made me laugh.

This makes some good points imo.

Most people on this thread would prefer a Labour party to a Tory party.
Some of us would prefer Labour even if not the perfect Labour party that fits every single one of our ideals
But there is very little support for how Starmer comes across or what he is saying/how he is acting so that is all you need to know isn’t it – he doesn’t even do it for his own parties supporters.

As the video I posted says, he just comes across as lacking integrity because he’s trying to disavow himself of the Corbyn years which he himself was a part of and defended. So he was either lying then or lying now.

Combine that with seeming to be led by focus groups and his wealthy backers and it’s a very unappealing prospect.

Interested to know how businesses can be made to invest when a lack of investent has resulted from the availability of cheap labour which, sadly, I can see increasing with economic dislocation. When property prices rise people spend money plus the reverse, it’s going to be very uneven. Given the two parties have a similar ‘household’ perspective around government debt I can only see the post-Covid economy as increasing our world-beating levels of inequality.
Guidelines for a structured critique of this: sixth form, pinko, allotments, granddad, father Ted, Monty Python, eating organs, protest, placard, student, ‘idealogical’ and then a sneer in place of conclusion. If I was on the bones of my arse I hope at least I’d be aiming at the right target.
Where Starmer has positioned himself politically I think he has no critique for the tories so all he’ll be able to do is squeak and cheer slightly from the sidelines and take no benefits for the ‘opposition’ and Johnson will bumble on ahead.

Starmer and the party are stale.

It’s the PLP who are happy in opposition not the left of the party. & it’s not really opposition is it?

Most people on this thread would prefer a Labour party to a Tory party.

If they do the same things I couldn’t care less which is in power. In fact there’s a strong argument that if we’re destined to run the country with conservative poiicies, then we’re much better off with the politicians who actually believe in them. That’s why people vote tory, because they believe in what they’e doing and aren’t ashamed of carrying it through. Labour under Starmer on the other hand are terrified of promoting and implementing the things that the labour party was setup to do, and the voters justifiably conclude that they don’t deserve power if they’re not going to stand up for what they supposedly believe in.

Most people in this country still naively believe that politicians exist to serve the public, whilst most politicians think they are above the people. Right now Starmer looks every bit the out of touch elitest establishment stooge, whilst Johnson is doing a pretty good job of portrayiing himself as a man of the people. That’s why Johnson gets the benefit of the doubt. Labour need to ditch Starmer now, because at this rate they risk replicating in England what they achieved in Scotland.

This makes some good points imo.

It doesn’t just make good points, it absolutely nails the issue with the labour party. What I don’t understand is why all the members, trade unions and MPs who form the majority don’t organise themselves to eject the careerists like Starmer and Rayner et al, or leave en masse to setup a new party. The careerists wouldn’t last long without the mass support that the membership and unions give them.

Interesting points. I’ve just been out and got the Telegraph and the Times, both completely reactionary but they shoot from the hip unlike the Guardian post Rusbridger. The LP might convince people that life will be different under them so they’re told don’t protest, strike or rock the boat, the only way forward is via your vote every half decade. It’s about closing down effective opposition.
The budget will doubtless be full of ‘training schemes’ and ‘work experience’ (remember ET? Extra tenner?) to keep people from protesting on the streets and allowing employers access to almost free labour (‘I’m backing Britain’). When the tories clapped and cheered when the nurses didn’t get a pay rise, they meant it. They will argue ‘you were only doing your job’ whilst spaffing £22bn at Serco (who report only £168m profit, something going on there). By not taking a lead in serious opposition the LP are effectively just lining up with the establishment and leaving the potential leadership of any backlash to the left, whom they so despise.

Starmer and Labour have a nuclear option. If I were them I would come out openly and say “Brexit is a colossal mistake. Tory-driven and delivered for Tories to exploit the gullible. It is going to damage this country’s recovery from covid, perhaps irreparably. We are here for you, internationalist and sensible, for when you grow up”. Then hammer the Tories on everything, ending with “if it wasn’t for Brexit this buffoon wouldn’t be PM”.

The problem is the spectre of the Red Wall Racists who jumped ship at the first opportunity to air their prejudices.

We are here for you, internationalist and sensible, for when you grow up

Yes that’s really going to persuade the voters that they’re not elitest and out of touch. The very fact that you of all people think this is the answer only confirms my view. Honestly between Starmer and his focus groups and people like yourself Johnson has the easiest job in the world. He really is the luckiest politician ever to have existed.

Yes, Johnson has been lucky with his opponents. I see Starmer as the janitor who clears up Corbin’s mess, the steps aside for someone with more oomph… (Who though???)

I agree with Steelfreak. And that task of distancing the party from Corbyn and his closest and most vocal supporters is what so many are really upset about. The party has to become the alternative choice for government in the eyes of the public, and that means ditching much that some hold close to their heart in terms of the image of the Party. They want ‘a strong opposition’… a red faced angry performance and thousands of people behind placards that turn so many voter away. I want the Tories out, and a government that governs for us all installed instead. Sadly I really don’t see that happening before 2029. The Labour Party just don’t have the killer instinct to change their leader in 2023, ready for the next election. It just won’t happen. Depressing, but there you are.

don’t organise themselves to eject the careerists like Starmer and Rayner

Did you not vote for both of them? I think Rayner has really proven herself since taking on her role as it happens. Good luck with the “ejection”… at some point it will become glaringly obvious that it needs to happen. But it won’t. Unless Starmer has the sense to stand down at the right time. As Corbyn should have done in the May years.

If I were them I would come out openly and say “Brexit is a colossal mistake. Tory-driven and delivered for Tories to exploit the gullible. It is going to damage this country’s recovery from covid, perhaps irreparably. We are here for you, internationalist and sensible, for when you grow up”.

While you and I might revel in that… we wouldn’t be nearly as happy as Gove and the other Conservative strategists… they would be thinking that all their dreams had been answered…

The best way to distance yourself from what went before is to set out your vision.

The tories are introducing a 5% deposit for first-time buyers. They can obviously see all the evictions on the horizon but they last issue they will address is social housing.
Now there’s an opportunity to set out a vision (cladding too).

I think Labour would do well to market themselves simply as:

Labour. For people who aren’t ****s.

Or words to that effect.