Sir! Keir! Starmer!

All well and good if in that history we’ve seen a transformation of class relations in capitalist society. If it happened, I didn’t notice. Contemporary society is much more unequal than it was in Marx’s time but people can be conveniently distracted by gender, ethnicity, region, status, football clubs, sex, drugs, rock’n’roll, and the disaster of capitalism happily rumbles on and profits from it.

LOLZ

Johnson attempted to turn the tables, suddenly suggesting the Labour leader had somehow been sympathetic to the IRA because he had worked under Jeremy Corbyn. “This is a leader of the opposition who supported an IRA-condoning politician,” said Johnson, to the bemusement of MPs on all sides of the house.

An angry Starmer pointed out he had in fact spent five years of his legal career prosecuting IRA terrorists and working with the intelligence services to bring terrorists to justice. Despite Hoyle’s request for Johnson to apologise he refused to do so.

A Labour source said: “If Boris Johnson wants to have a debate with Keir about past careers then bring it on. While Keir was a human rights lawyer or director of public prosecutions Johnson was being sacked for lying.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/05/desperate-boris-johnson-to-step-up-personal-attacks-on-keir-starmer

 A senior Tory MP said: “It is the issue of competence that we worry about against Starmer.”

Mega LOLZ.

I bet it is – having someone competent on the other side of the house appears to have Johnson shitting himself.

having someone competent on the other side of the house appears to have Johnson shitting himself

That was always certain.

That was always certain.

Competent at what? I see no evidence of anything other than this bloke that turns up on time. The lack of passion and useful offense towards the Tories is mind-blowing. He’s playing the long game the centrists screech…

Besides – Boris is carrying the can and apart from one poll (which wasn’t that great) seems to be doing okay in the public eye. Once Boris has done his number 10 squat – he will move on anyway.

Really don’t know where Labour are in this shambles they should be tearing into the economic lack of policy from Tories which is about to fall apart. It’s an easy goal. But actually they can’t really attack the Tories because their own economic policy is not clear either.

Magic Starmer.

Competent at what?

Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.

Competence at everything he’s set out to achieve? Rare quality in a politician. Especially compared to the current incompetent twonk in number ten who has failed upwards at everything he’s ever done

I’m sorry but I’m not one of these people who thinks that sitting back and waiting for this car crash government to possibly implode is what leading a strong opposition is about. I know what he was in the past, I know he seems articulate and has a certain level of intelligence hence his former profession. I still don’t know what drives him, where he wants the party to go etc. He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.

Competence is a key thing for politicians. Look at Sturgeon. She appears to be truthfull and competent and that’s the foundation for her and the SNPs popularity. It’s a slow burner but it has a huge effect. Even staunch unionists have respect for her.

The same will happen with Starmer. The comparison with the Tory incompetence and lies will have its effect. We already see it happening and although slow it’s a powerful and long lasting effect

He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.

Not important to me… evidence led rather than ego led policy would be a breath of fresh air in number ten. But as I said well before he even entered the leadership contest… he would make a great PM… he would have the intelligence to handle the brief, and would care enough to do the job to the best of his considerable abilities… but he will never get the chance to prove it… he does not have the charisma to win in a first past the post system. I’d love him to be PM… but it just won’t happen, sadly.

I agree but it’s not the world we live in unfortunately.

Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.

Johnson is digging his own hole at a pace right now. No need for Starmer to commit to much and why hand the Tories and their journo mates anything to get a finger hold in?

Johnson won the election by going AWOL, avoiding scrutiny and not being Jeremy Corbyn. All Starmer has to do is hold up Johnson’s oafish policies, attitude, and shower of dildos in the ‘top team’ to a bit of scrutiny. Get the preposterous bullshit in the public consciousness.

Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way with the rickety Bullshit Bus hurtling from disaster to disaster.

He’s not doing himself any favours in the visibility stakes.

At least with Boris, we know he’s hiding in the fridge. No idea where Starmer’s gone.

Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way

Do you really believe that?

“Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way”

With that thought process do Labour even deserve to win the next election with Starmer?

It’s easy when in opposition to just highlight when somebody does something wrong especially Boris. That’s not enough for me. That’s why Labour will lose again with that attitude. People need to know what he’s about, his passions, what is he trying to achieve, a long term vision. He’s not going to win just because he isn’t Boris.

To paraphrase Napoleon (yet again)…

Never interrupt your enemy when they’re in the process of massively ****ing things up.

In the same way that Johnson won an election by basically not being Jeremy Corbyn, it seems that the reduction of his 26 point poll lead to zero in less than a year would indicate the ‘not being Boris Johnson’ clause is now very much in play

Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way

Do you really believe that?

Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?

Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.

That’s rather generous. Current performances suggest the PM would struggle to find both arse cheeks in a well lit room.

The record defeat of Labour at the last effectively removed any meaningful opposition.

Theres no amount of stamping your feet and saying evil Tories that’s going to make a difference.

Do you really believe that?

Right now, yes. Absolutely.

Why give Johnson and the right wing gutter press (which includes the Telegraph nowadays) anything they can use in return? Anything they can twist.

For now, it really is a case of sitting back and letting Johnson keep digging his own political grave. That was what the ‘bring it on’ soundbite was all about. Let an increasingly desperate fraud like Johnson make the running. If he goes for a personal attack (which he will because he hasn’t got anything else) just smack his fat arse back with any of the innumerable examples where Johnson is a hypocrite and leave it there.

Brexit is going to be such a monumental national embarrassment, there is no need to do anything for now. At the right time he just needs to highlight any of the softer Brexits that would have made a difference. The tories will try to blame covid, but all Starmer will need to do is point over the channel.

If I was Starmer the main thing I would be working on is a roadmap back to accepting pretty much full regulatory alignment and renegotiating the deal on that basis. When things get really bad next year, he just gives Barnier a cheeky call and says “If I say we can be back in ‘x’ by whatever date and the benefits will be ‘y’ and ‘z’ and immediate, will you back me up?”

Barnier, who must loathe Johnson and his rabble with a passion will happily play along. The EU would probably like us back at some point, in some capacity, with a freshly smacked backside and a promise not to do it again.

Starmers job is to make Boris look like a lying, incompetent, thick as shit, C**t. He is doing a good job as Boris cant cope with analytics… and cant follow a “defence” script.

Starmer knows there is a epic shit show coming in January… either Boris folds like a wet napkin or jumps off the cliff and Starmer knows this.

He also knows that Rishi will inherit this… Starmer and his team just need to sit back and point out how shite they are. Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy – just not possible.

Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy – just not possible.

And don’t forget that his creditors (our creditors) aren’t going to keep doling out the sweeties to fund an epic political fail.

Even the utterly irresponsible shit the Tories are banging on about with six months to file imports paperwork – that can easily be negated. Some lorries still go from Dover to Calais, right? The UK has effectively waved every Tom, Dick or Harry through. But if the EU insist on full checks going the other way, the effect is much the same. Ferries aren’t one way only. Hold up each one for a few minutes more and Kent still becomes a lorry park.

This is what happens when you try to screw over people you actually need.

Maybe we could rebrand Xmas 2020 as the retro-Victorian one. I reckon some spaghetti and a six pack of Andrex Arsewipe Deluxe might turn out to be the fashionable gift of choice this year. And it is all down to Johnson.

I thought Boris as PM was depressing till I saw how little even those who see his flaws expect from politicians.

Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?

Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he’d like to see things change.

I think we can all take it as read that There’s no way on earth Boris Johnson will be leading the Tories at the next election.

It looks like it’ll be Sunak. That’s fine for now when all he’s done is given everyone free pizzas and looked vaguely more competent than the imbeciles he’s surrounded with

But come Januaries shitshow he’s a fully paid up Brexiteer who now has to pay for all those pizzas. His glowing poll ratings won’t last long

Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he’d like to see things change.

Come January and a likely no deal, we’re into a whole world of Rumsfeld’s known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.

You’d have to be a complete bloody idiot to nail your colours to the mast just before a shitshow of such epic proportions which Boris and chums will own 100%

Aa the time for that is in a couple of years

You’d have to be a complete bloody idiot to nail your colours to the mast just before a shitshow of such epic proportions which Boris and chums will own 100%

I expect a key message will be something along the lines of:

“Although the result of the referendum must be respected, there are a multitude of ways that can be done. And this damaging chaos is not one of them. You sir, is this the Brexit you voted for? How about you sir? Did you want this“.

Leave it there until pressed. Don’t commit. Let Johnson’s rabble own it 100%. Covid-blaming will only work for so long.

Aa the time for that is in a couple of years

So meanwhile only the people on this thread and about 30 people 3 dogs and a cat in the rest of the country get to **** themselves into a fever about how clever he is at PMQ’s and no one else gives a shit or even knows anything about him? Great!

Look at Sturgeon. She appears to be truthfull and competent and that’s the foundation for her and the SNPs popularity. It’s a slow burner but it has a huge effect. Even staunch unionists have respect for her.

Very good point, Sturgeon is hardly full of character or funny, or even particularly likeable but she has integrity and honesty and gives the professional appearance required.
Of course it helps that she is in Scotland where she has a population who don’t have a history of voting tory without any care of who is their MP or the leader at the time.

Well judging by current polls ( for what there worth) a few more people than 30 recognise what Starmer is achieving.

Not sure what you want from an opposition leader with an 80 seat deficit and a previous opposition team that couldn’t find their arse because they left it back in 1974?

Starmer understands what the press can do to an opposition party and he must avoid that negativity at all costs.

The UK working class/poor are not spurred on by the “greater good” they are selfish, greedy, xenophobic, small minded and sadly poorly educated. They voted for Boris (and Thatcher) on the promise that they would get something for nothing, the fear of losing what they have ( which is actually **** all) has been ingrained in multiple generations via the Vote leave, Dominic Cummins, ERG messaging, fear of foreigners Daily Mail bollocks

If Starmer lays out any form of political, economic, social plans in the next six months he would be a fool, just like Corbyn was a fool for allowing an early election based on the idea he had some good policy?

Its not rocket science to wait until the covid brexit misery manifests itself and as soon as thats in plain site then and only then offer a solution.

If you want a red flag waving left leaning younder version of Corbyn then Starmer is not that, if you want a Tony Blair (with a conscious) Starmer may be that. Sometimes we have to support the alternative for no better reason than its only marginally more palatable.

about how clever he is at PMQ’s and no one else gives a shit or even knows anything about him? Great!

Given that the Tory cabinet seem to be stuffed with woefully incompetent Brexiteer arseholes, who couldn’t be trusted to run a bath. Now is not the time to give them, and their enablers something else to talk about. The only thing the R-W press have to talk about right now is how badly this govt are **** it up…Let them get on with it. What do you want? A headline with “Hancock’s latest U turn” or “Cummings looks like a shabby day release patient” or…”We reveal how much Starmer’s plans will cost you!”

Because as soon as he sets out some ideas, that’s what’s going to happen…

He has to walk a fine line – he needs to keep giving the government enough rope to hang themselves, because with an 80 seat majority there’s nothing realistically he can do.

But he needs to be asking pointed questions to make it obvious to anyone with half an eye on the news whose fault this is. And I’d like to see some effort to start changing the narrative more towards “greater good” to try and get people to understand that that approach is the only way to build a society and country with a viable long term future.

Given the majority right wing press, not sure how you get out the message “you lot were conned into voting for this mess, and unless you start thinking about your kids and grandkids long term future, we are ****” as a catchy vote winning strapline.

Basically Labour, and the country, need the Tories to implode in the usual fashion with epic amounts of backstabbing and blame. If they provide them with something to unite against – some kind of tax or welfare or immigration policy – then the ‘it would be worse under Corbyn Starmer’ can be employed.

The Tories have to own this shitstorm 100% – unfortunately for the rest of us, those who gave them such a secure majority have to suffer to drive home this point.

Is there any episode in history of a politician who kept their policy cards close to their chest, got sponsored by big business, got elected and then turned out to have some socialist principles after all? I’ve heard this story countless times but there doesn’t appear to be a single example of it.

Starmer absolutely has to connect with people on a personal level. Right now he isn’t achieving that, other than with Lib Dem / Labour centre voters. That’s not a disaster at the moment, the next election is a life time away in politics.

If Starmer lays out any form of political, economic, social plans in the next six months he would be a fool

Totally. Big committal now gives the Tories plenty of time to neutralise it by claiming to do similar, even if in reality they have no real intention of doing so.

He has the ‘competence’ voters already, now he needs to work on showing empathy and understanding for the voters that Labour have lost of the last 15 years. This doesn’t need solid policy plans, he needs to show a vast chunk of the population that he ‘gets’ them. No easy task.

There’s more than 4 years to the next election, unless the Gov implodes sufficiently spectacularly to call another one under the Act – and at this stage why would they, as I say it would have to be a spectacular collapse. Or lose a vote of no confidence – same again.

There’s also a shed load to happen between now and then, no-one can predict the economic situation post Covid-Brexit.

There is no sense and no need for Starmer to lay out any policies right now, particularly as noted above if it risks diverting attention away from the general clown show.

‘No Prime Minister – you won a majority in December 2019 on the promises you made to the electorate then, and further back in 2016. It’s time for you as the Government to deliver on them, and me as opposition to hold you to account where you don’t. My policies are not relevant for another 2 years at least; it’s all about you right now.

I’d be tempted to come out and say it and stick to it, when the accusation of no policies is the response.

Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he’d like to see things change.

i think we did the “hopeless idealist” thing last time around and it didn’t turn out well 🙁

Hiding in the shadows isn’t a great look. Wakey,wakey people the shit has already hit the fan.
Starmer needs to suck up bad press and get his vision out there, this is not a time to be scared of the old media powers. Make some media waves and make some serious noise.
Sunak has become relevant off the back of a couple of TV statements, before you know it he will become the face of the new PM.