Sir! Keir! Starmer!

and an apology for sharing an interview that claimed that it was

Her mistake was using twitter to sycophantly ingratiate herself with a celebrity friend by calling her an ‘absolute diamond’. I mean that’s bad enough, who the hell uses that phrase? It’s like something out of a 1960s cockney gangster movie. Her second mistake was sharing the interview without reading it first. That makes her an idiot, not an anti-semite. And not even a massive idiot, because Maxine Peake’s comment in itself hardly makes her the next Hitler. It’s a clumsy, uninformed and as it turns out inaccurate accusation against one part of the state of Israel, not a call to arms against world jewry.

Look at it another way. If Long-Bailey’s actions are typical of the anti-semitism problem within the labour party, then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and get on with other things, and Keir Starmer can sleep at night confident that he’s not the leader of a party of racist bigots.

I kind of agree though on the apology, she should come out an apologise for name dropping her mate in a crap attempt at using celebrity to boost her northern credentials. If we’re lucky it might have saved us from future tweets about chippy teas and black pudding for breakfast.

That makes her an idiot, not an anti-semite.

I don’t think she is either. An apology and a clear statement about the police killing not being linked to Israel was needed as quickly as possible. And still hasn’t happened. I have no idea why. The way she handled discussions during the leadership campaign made it clear she isn’t stupid. There must be some “look strong and never apologise” nonsense going on here, and she wouldn’t be the first politician to do that, and won’t be the last… but the result here is a dangerous lie lives on that she could and should help to stop.

Still, Labour are more electable without RLB so, again, what’s not to like?

A few weeks ago I saw a video of a speaker addressing a slightly bemused crowd at a london BLM rally where he was making the link between the Palestine issue and the BLM cause.

It worried me. I thought that any attempt to conflate politics or religion into the mix would only serve to undermine the central message of BLM, that of addressing prejudice relating solely to skin colour.

It was obvious that it would only be a matter of time before a celebrity leftie or Labour politician would do the same. Regardless of the veracity of claim and counter claim the effect has been to fill column inches with dross that connects two entirely unconnected issues, Fake news and whataboutary is the last thing the BLM movement needs to be dealing with.

If you follow any of the lefty Twitter feeds that constitute the fan club for Grandad and latterly RLB, then you’ll already know that absolutely EVERYTHING that’s wrong in the world is the fault of Israel, America or both.

Meanwhile Russia or Iran could carpet bomb a city and somehow remain completely blameless.

My enemies enemy is my friend is about as sophisticated as their political analysis gets, and we all know who they enemy’ is, right?

Binners, see also China. Genocidal tendencies towards the Uighurs, annexation of Tibet, etc, but hardly a peep.

The obsession with Israel/Palestine in some circles is toxic.

But isn’t that the right way around? Shouldn’t we be more critical of our or our allies actions rather than other countries?

& surely to Christ you don’t think our or the USAs foreign policy is selfless and moral?

‘We’ should be equally critical of everyone, regardless, and weigh up ‘evidence’ rather than conspiracy theories cooked up by paranoid lunatics in their bedrooms.

The left will leap on any old nonsense to accuse Israel of anything (see RLB’s latest ridiculous tinfoil helmet contribution), while simultaneously coming out with absolute twoddle like Jezza insisting we shouldn’t rush to accuse Russia after the Salisbury poisonings, despite them essentially trolling everyone by openly smirking while saying they honestly definitely didn’t do it. Honest we didn’t *snigger*

Yeah… because loads of people have access to weapons grade nerve agents

Hang on a minute…. maybe that was ‘them’ too?

Makes you think

Hang on a minute…. maybe that was ‘them’ too?

Well, to balance things up… the only person I know to make that claim used to be a LibDem, and then joined the SNP…

Russian to Judgement

We can all fall into this hole, it’s nothing to do with being Labour, or of the “Left”.

Milne finally fully binned. The cull continues.

Does that mean we can work out how much money he’s been paid by the party in total now? That book deal is going to be many figures, isn’t it…

Corbyn may have had a point in trying to be more cautious regarding the novichok incident. However, who else would have beef with a flipped ex GRU and access to nervous agent? If Viktor Suvorov’s account of the GRU from before he defected are accurate, this incident was only a matter of time.

I hear the steeple at Salisbury cathedral is particularly impressive?

Well worth a trip over from Russia purely to have a look 😂

If Long-Bailey’s actions are typical of the anti-semitism problem within the labour party, then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and get on with other things

You know that’s not the case though, right?

Any further reports of how much Saumas trousered in the end for him to finally **** off?

All Seumas Milne's friends were there for his leaving party. pic.twitter.com/OLxIdcyuRx

— Damian Counsell (@DamCou) June 30, 2020

You know that’s not the case though, right?

I do, but I reckon core of the problem is among the older generation socialists* from the 70s and 80s industrial towns and villages. Coming from a northern ex-pit village where the words **** and darky are still in general usage I’d be astonished if they weren’t anti-semitic. There’s basically still a huge racism legacy in the places which are traditionally seen as labour heartlands. Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.

*and no doubt a very small number of younger ones sucked in by the socialist workers and their ilk who take great pleasure in offending as many people as possible who are not in their deluded bubble.

Milne finally fully binned. The cull continues.

Literally more and more electable by the day.

dazh – good news is that older generation of 70s/80s socialists are dying out and taking their racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic, bigoted views with them.
As an aside, the Gala should be ended.

Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.

I think this is the challenge the left is having globally. The views of modern metropolitan liberals that live in multicultural places are clashing with the white working class, in what is a predominantly white country. On the other hand the right is having to balance out neocons and libertarians.

Edit: Which is exactly why I think Keir is such a great choice just on background alone.

Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.

to be fair, I’ve a couple of friends who tick all those boxes and go. And Billy Brag’s definitely a metropolitan liberal bit.ly/2JlCJ7v

and editing – it’s a condescending and utterly untrue sterotype that white working class = racist, ignorant, intolerant.

Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.

I always thought the opposite. It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries

a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries

exactly!

I always thought the opposite. It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries

Just did a quick search on google images. It’s all pot-bellied flat-capped gammons as far as the eye can see.

it’s a condescending and utterly untrue sterotype that white working class = racist, ignorant, intolerant

The experience of growing up in one of these places tells me otherwise. My dad would regard himself as a working class died in the wool labour voter and was a massive fan of Corbyn, and I’ve just had to block him on facebook because he keeps posting shite about white lives matter and how no one kicked up a fuss when Lee Rigby was murdered.

I thought a fuss was kicked up when Lee Rigby was murdered? Did I imagine it?

The experience of growing up in one of these places

Ten of you in a cardboard box? [Sorry, /binnersmode].

I should tread carefully, I’m 1st (or 2nd on my mum’s side) gen middle class and very solidly so, but 100% of my wife’s family and a fair bit of my own are white working class, Leeds and Liverpool I guess rather an armpit of beyond, but still. Can’t we all just gang up on the lower middle classes?

It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries

You have two out of three already, so keep working at it and they might let you in.

You saying he needs to move to the suburbs

I should tread carefully,

The opposite here, Mrs Daz is the gin and tonic in the afternoon on the verandah type and I’m the white trash with no manners. It is weird though. I was once told by my FiL that racism didn’t really exist these days, at which point I invited him to leave his leafy middle class utopia in suburban Kent and join me in a visit to a North Tyneside Working Men’s club. We never did do that before he died and I really wish we had. Probably a good job though cos he wasn’t used to hearing the F and C word used in each sentence.

You saying he needs to move to the suburbs

I think he’s actually suggesting I should sell my stately home and buy a nice semi

I have been thinking about where Starmer sits politically. I have come to the conclusion he is a technocrat with a social conscience I do not think he is bound by any ideology

I think that is exactly how he has been presenting himself so far TJ. I have no idea if that’s the real him. Taking a bet on ‘competence’ rather than ‘ideology’ being the battle ground to try and win on in a few years time might be wise, it might not, we’ll see. I’m pessimist about it currently… we have undeniable incompetence in government right now (just count the dead bodies) yet they are still popular.

It’s been said many times on this thread already, but it’s over 4 years to the next election.

Starmer appears to be (sensibly) playing the long game. His personal ratings are already higher than Boris’s as his sober serious air of competence and professionalism stands in stark contrast to the flailing buffoonery of the rolling car crash he’s opposing.

As no new policies have been announced, we can presume that as it stands Labour policy is largely what it was under Grandad. This seems sensible seeing as it wasn’t the policies that were labours problems, but the total lack of confidence in those tasked to deliver them.

And seeing as Boris seems to have discovered the magic money forest, accusations of things being unaffordable are largely now null and void.

There’s also going to be the horrendous reality of a no deal Brexit to heap economic misery on top of Covid, so it looks like he’s leaving them to fully own that particular shitstorm, seeing as theres nothing anyone can now do about it anyway

Tory lead has being steadily decreasing( I haven’t checked sources on the article though):
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/labour-keir-starmer-popularity-election-boris-johnson-polls

Edit: nice article on FT regarding Starmer’s activity and challenges he faces.

https://www.ft.com/content/ab079a6a-2ce3-466d-90fe-fffe52a715b5

I’m not quite sure how to word this but, it seems to me like mostly when people get called a technocrat or similar, and people talk about making decisions based on competence and facts rather than ideology, it just means “I agree with them”. Everyone’s a competent fact-led intelligent leader to someone, and there’s always someone that can dismiss good solid logic as ideologically led.

The only thing is, it can leave you looking like a flag in the wind sometimes. Without core values, people can’t infer where you’ll stand on other things. And Labour’s internal analysis of Miliband’s failings made it very clear that “not knowing what he stood for” was a critical problem (IIRC the biggest problem).

Starmer appears to be (sensibly) playing the long game.

I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government’s actions and he’s playing a “long game” for personal gain.
They need challenging, and challenging now. Not just case building to hold them to account in the future.
They’re more scared of Piers Morgan and Marcus Rashford. And those two have shown that you can get change and U-turns out of them if you just have the minerals to stand up to them.

We’re presently ruled by the most ideological government this country has ever seen. Far-right, Freemarket ultra-neoliberal zealots, but they never go anywhere near the word ideology and do everything in their power to play it down.

I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.

Options are limited due to the massive Tory majority gained at the last election.

I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government’s actions and he’s playing a “long game” for personal gain.

Personal gain? What’s he gaining personally from this?

You may not have noticed, but this ‘government’ (with its huge majority) consists of Boris ‘sock-puppet’ Johnson and Dominic Cummings. That’s it. They’re not listening to experts, medical professionals, they’re not even consulting their own cabinet members. They’re not listening to anyone.

So there’s little to be gained from the shouty-ten-second-youtube-clip approach to opposition, as that’s not what the public wants to see at a time of crisis. It might make you feel better for 10 seconds but it’s totally counter-productive.

But there’s going to be a reckoning when we finally get through this and the rank incompetence of this shower is going to be held to account at a public inquiry. So ‘building a case’ is exactly what’s required at the moment. He’s got Boris to say a lot of things at PMQ’s which are absolutely guaranteed to come back to bite him on the arse.

They’re more scared of Piers Morgan and Marcus Rashford

They’re really not. Boris must know full-well what’s coming at some point soon. He might actually about to be held accountable for his actions for the first time in his life. You can see how flustered he gets when he has to face Starmer. He knows he’s got the measure of him and his blustering

I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government’s actions and he’s playing a “long game” for personal gain.

The issue is that it’s unlikely to achieve anything, and an aggressive stance is likely to work against them (as it did Jeremy Corbyn), reducing their ability to achieve anything long-term.

As it is, Starmer comes across as measured and pragmatic, which is exactly what we need.

Well Starmer has basically walked in to the role and started trouncing Boris Bullshit from day one.

Either he is a genius or Corbyn was useless……or both.

Either way Labour is getting more electable by the day…..