should I stay or should I go – the coke and hookers thread

so, my marriage is on the rocks, its been broken for about 2 years. We live together in the same house and its civil. I wont leave as I love my kids too much and the civility between us is good enough for the moment for them not to notice, too young. I haven’t had any intimacy (trying to avoid a mod closing this thread) with the mrs in this time bar one evening when we were on holiday. I still love her but shes such hard work. She has depression. I’ve tried hard over the last two years to encourage her back to the relationship but despite the drugs helping they’ve not helped her back to who she was once. Shes adamant she wont see a counsellor and keeps me cut out of her medical stuff. I don’t think shes having an affair, stranger things have happened but I honestly don’t believe she is.
I’m at tipping point. I’m thinking about looking for an affair, looking for some affection. I don’t want to betray her, I still love her but just cant see a way back. I distract myself with my biking and other hobbies to tire me out and keep my mind focused on my children and job and life, its like my meditation, biking is really good for that I find. But I honestly don’t know what to do. I vaguely think I should encourage her to look at her mental state but expect to be again told to bog off and keep nose out.

Cmon guys whats yer verdict? Hookers and Coke really appeal to my brain right now.

Does she know you feel like this? If not, time for a heart to heart mate.

She wanted to ditch you over a year ago (yup, I clicked on your user name because I didn’t recognise it – I know some here consider this stalking). A private detective to make absolutely sure she isn’t seeing someone else. If she is then see a lawyer, if she isn’t then the hookers thing would mean you can still live with your kids even if that means putting up with a mardy but faithful wife.

I think that wrecker has it. You need to talk and tell her how you are feeling. People can get out of the habit of intimacy and maybe a good talk will help you get that back.

I personally rate counselling. It might help and talking to her may allow her to accept that option. You have nothing to lose.

Is she on the right meds? From personal experience, different antidepressants have different (side-)effects depending on the person.

She probably doesn’t know how serious things are, as mentioned above have a completely honest heart to heart and go from there.

Have you tried a cuddle?

A close relative has been through this. She had had a bit of an unfortunate childhood and post-kids she froze up completely and focussed entirely on the kids. He was just a source of income. Relations were amicable enough to stay together while the kids grew up but despite counselling meds & affairs people change and sometime find it impossible to stay together

They’re separated now he does what he wants and she puts on a brave face but it’s a messy business

I don’t think an affair is the answer.

I think you’ve got to decide if you’re happy, or you’re just putting up with it out of a sense of duty to your family. Your wife, whilst not ‘happy’ because she’s got depression, might have just found a situation she can tolerate but you don’t sound happy and if you’re not what’s the plan? You’ve put up with it for 2 years, perhaps hoping it will improve and it hasn’t – if your kids are still young do you intend on putting up with it for another 10, 15 years until they leave home and then getting on with your life?

If you think you’ll be happier with a bit of ‘intimacy’ elsewhere, you might as well be honest about it, if your Wife is happy / tolerates you to playing away from home then you can do so with a clear conscience if she’s not (and I think most people wouldn’t be) then it’s time to either work things out between you, or call it a day – your kids might not notice what’s going on – but they’ll feel the tension and if your tolerance for the current situation goes it’ll only get worse – better to split whilst you’re civil and continue to live apart happy than it get all bitter and twisted, because the kids will suffer, they always do.

Must admit, even before kids my wife was a bit special at times, since having them I’ve nearly walking several times. But as you say, you stay for the kids. Same here, plus if you aren’t there and the Mrs finds another guy…guess what, another bloke is around your kids and that’s something I’m not willing to risk.

If you are determined to leave, then leave, may not be good, but she hopefully won’t make your life a living hell. Guess what, if she finds out you’ve played away…..oh man, you are in for a World of pain.

As someone said, best keep your head down and trust in madam palm and her five sisters…..never know, maybe she might come around after a while…hopefully.

I understand quite well how you feel, at the end of the day, you have a responsibility to your kids above everything else.

Its hard to see how having an affair improves your domestic life

What do you think will be better as a result of this?

Be honest with each other and move on if you have to do.

I don’t think an affair is the answer.

+1

Do you have any friends nearby you can chat to about it?

Although I wasn’t married, I was in a similar situation a couple of years back with a gf who was very troubled, and the support of my friends helped massively.

Go. It’ll be hard, but do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?

I expect this will not be as popular choice (hard hat at the ready) but you’ve got to think about yourself as well.

I don’t think an affair’s the answer. If your marriage does recover, she’s sure to find out and that’ll cause much more grief than the passing pleasure the affair will bring.

I’m with growing lad on this.

All women are a PITA, stick with this one for the good of your kids.

The fact you’re civil is beyond what many marriages achieve.

Go. It’ll be hard, but do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?

Some good friends of ours have recently started to go through a very similar break-up, whilst the man involved had been having an affair, the reason for the break-up was her depression / aggression / possessive behaviour (delete as applicable depending on whos side you’re on…). Despite the obvious effects on the children, the one thing this has done is bring her depression (and subsequent mental illness) to the forefront, and has lead to others assisting in getting her help. He would never have left had it not be utterly unbearable, and has kept it civil, and IMHO gone above and beyond what he would have been expected to provide.
Think about the kids, but also think about yourself and your partner. Maybe the best thing would be time apart.

An affair is madness, it will just add another persons feelings into the mix, why would you want that?
Ask yourself, what attracted you in the first place, you must have had some feelings to have children?
All woman are the same in the end, they have doubts and fears, and can be incredibly hard work.
I would urge anyone to keep trying, if you walk away you will still be responsible for the children financially and this will add a massive strain to any future relationships.
Good luck.

I know the hookers thing in your opening post was tongue in cheek but has a lot of advantages over an affair:

If you are still at home a year after you wife wanted rid of you then the current situation suits her. If you really have eliminated the possibility of her being in an affair then she is happy in a sexless relationship. Where else is she going to find that? Prospective candidates for your place will want intimacy.

However, you having an affair is dangerous and would no doubt upset the apple cart. She doesn’t want that. Equally you will be hard pushed to have an affair that doesn’t become a close relationship that will ultimately draw you away from your current life.

Hookers on the other hand are discrete, demand no more commitment than a financial contribution, don’t risk upsetting the apple cart by sticking their noses in or demanding lots of your time, won’t see your wife as a rival (and your wife shouldn’t see the hookers as rivals because she doesn’t want you in that way).

Talk about it with your wife, I have with mine in a hypothetical way and there are circumstances in which hookers would be tolerated, or so she says. I’m so sure an affair would not I don’t need to ask.

I have indeed tried the cuddle approach and the response is like a verbal slap at the least. Sadly she aint keen on the counselling route, I’ve tried that and got her to one session and she really closed the door on it. You can take a horse to water …

just don’t know really what I should do next.

This. She has you exactly where she wants you, providing for the family and supporting the kids. There is no incentive for her to change. Either live with it, start the affair so that when she finds out she can screw you financially, or move out and seek another relationship.

You can still be a good/great dad not living with your kids. Being happy would make you an even better dad.

If you really have eliminated the possibility of her being in an affair then she is happy in a sexless relationship with you.

FTFY, just saying…

There are people who are happy with companionship and no sex, but someone who wants and needs both is not going to be happy spending the rest of their life with them. And that unhappiness will poison the relationship and affect the kids.

You need to be honest with her, and say where you are in your thinking.
Her options are: 1) do nothing and lose you, 2) Involve you more in her medical stuff so you can understand it, committing to resolving the sex issues, 3) Accept a companionate but open marriage in which you can have sexual but not emotional relationships outside the marriage – be they FWBs or professionals.

The people whose marriages keep going because of arrangements like that don’t exactly advertise.

Think what’s best for the kids, it may not be what you think. If she won’t go to couples counselling there’s nothing stopping you going on your own to get an outside view. Obviously it’s better if you both go. These people are professionals, they’ll be used to this situation

BillOddie has it. From experience your kids will have a better time of you are happier, providing you keep it civil with their mother. Affairs are not the way to go. Good luck.

Alternative viewpoint – bear in mind I don’t know you or your wife:

Sometimes people don’t function well. You promised to stick with her through the good and the bad times, well these are the bad.

It does sound rather like you have run out of ideas. You should get some more ideas. For most blokes, ‘are you ok?’ ‘I’m FINE’ is about all they can manage. You need to learn how to relate to her, and that’s really difficult. Worth the effort though. Perhaps some reading around depression, medication, and how to handle the situation.

The advice given by the divorcees on these threads seems to be ‘**** it, look after no 1’ and that makes me sad. It sounds like they are projecting their cynicism onto the situation. If I were depressed, withdrawn and having trouble coping with life, having my partner bugger off to enjoy themselves leaving me with my shit and the kids would not help. Sometimes people need to be pushed to confront their issues and open up even if they resist. That doesn’t have to be in the context of a row either – sometimes people take an idea and come to terms with it over a week of silence.

For a long time when we were first married my wife would not respond to my efforts to figure out what was wrong when she was depressed. Often literally – she would not reply to questions, nice or anguished from me. After a few years she managed to articulate that she physically couldn’t talk at all during those times, never mind have a rational discussion.

my wife suffers with depression and so does my son. it took me a long time to try and understand how they feel as i’m the ‘get on with it’ type of guy. i would suggest googling depression to figure out what goes on and also get a book called ‘sod it’ by martin davies. (the depression virus and how to deal with it). £6 on ebay. it’s sort of a cartoon book but it’s been really helpful, both for me and my mrs. leave it on your bedside table where she might see it. dont suggest she reads it, that produces a negative. as for an affair, that just introduces guilt into the mix so dont go there. i’m big on marriage so do everything you can to fix it before giving up. PM me if you want to talk some more.

i’ve just noticed, there doesnt seem to be a PM facility. it it not available here?

molgrips all very reasonable

But the previous thread seemed to suggest he’d really tried and that she was the one pushing for separation previously

In my marriage, I wish I’d been more upfront about the problems and given my wife a clearer view of what was at risk if things didn’t chnage. I think that would have been fairer to her. Might not have changed anything though.

growinglad
guess what, another bloke is around your kids and that’s something I’m not willing to risk.

What a weird thing to say – not all single blokes are Jimmy Saville, you know.

Depression is the big thing. People are aware of how something like alcholism can change people and make them into something they’re not – depression can do the same. When it’s got you in its teeth it’s taking away your personality, your pleasure, everything.

As above – learn as much as you can about depression.

she was the one pushing for separation previously

Yeah depression can do that to you. But who knows in this situation, we’re not likely to get the other side.

i’ve just noticed, there doesnt seem to be a PM facility. it it not available here?

No – in STWese, ‘PM me’ becomes ’email in profile’

@molgrips talks a lot of sense
Just out of interest, how is your wife now? Did she seek professional help?

Listen to,Molgrips he’s talking perfect sense.

Ignore Edukator.

She’s broadly ok – thanks for asking!

Fortunately, when she’d fall into the deepest hole she’d come back out in a day or two, so we were able to resume a normal relationship even though she’d still be a bit low sometimes in a normal everyday sense. All I could do was back off and wait even though this was very difficult for me. She was still going through a lot of things when we got married (like dealing with being married to me!) and has grown through the years as have I of course.

Since having to deal with kids she found herself becoming very snappy and irritable a lot which was really period related – so she went to the doctor with the aim of sorting that out. I know this is very personal, and if she ever reads this I apologise, but sharing the experience might help someone.

Suspect the OP is entertaining the idea of an affair (whether real or just as an escape fantasy) rather than just having a ham shank is because sometimes (even for men, and hold onto your hats because I’m sure this is a shock ) it’s not all about sex. Sometimes you may want some loving companionship, tenderness, to feel valued, respected and yes – wanted. Sounds like this is missing at the moment, and although it may be no-ones fault per se if depression is the root cause, it can still be hard to tough it out on your own.

I’m truly not entertaining the idea of an affair, theres nobody I have my eye on, its just not me.

Theres been some interesting replies and that’s great to read, it gives me a more objective view and some fresh ideas on my situation.

Having not spoken to my wife for a week, last night we had a raging argument once the kids were asleep but off the back of it came more deep discussion and I remain confident she isn’t playing away. One interesting thing is she opened up that shes trying to get herself some counselling. I’ve done counselling myself when she was in hospital last year so I know its not a cure and not an easy journey but also that it helps to talk openly about all your issues to a sounding board and be prompted and challenged on what is said. So I hope it helps her.

At the end of the deeper discussion she said that if I was leaving then to leave soon, so the kids aren’t old enough to be to badly impacted. I repeated I didn’t want to leave them, the kids or her, although honestly its more the kids than her but I do still love her. I’m just no longer in love with her.

She then said if I stay then she’d make sure our girls saw that we were a couple… now I struggle with this. sleeping in the same bed doesn’t mean intimacy and she explicitly said it wouldn’t. So, the concept sounded to me like two ‘friends’ as parents bring the kids up. What do you guys make of that? Part of me thinks its a step in the right direction and I should take that step for now and see if in the medium term we cant build on that. But hey, she wants me to promise not to leave without the promise from her to commit to trying to get the relationship back on track. And she wants me to make that promise to the kids as it were, not really to her. I don’t want to promise something like that to the kids even if they don’t understand, I will. So the promise is a commitment.

Well, I have nothing useful to add but you have my sympathies. Got to be a positive that she’s thinking about counselling though.

Sounds shit..

I wouldn’t be imposing that sort of weirdness on my kids..

Leaving my kid’s mum was the best thing I ever did..

But I refused to leave the family home until I had legally witnessed signed agreements that I would have shared custody

Neither of us did anything wrong, we were just sick of the sight of each other and had nothing left except resentment.. We still cared very much for each other, we were just ready to accept that life’s too short for bullshit and the kids deserve to be raised in a positive environment

Some more advice about ‘women’ depressed or otherwise and cyclically they become depressed, they are also more ‘open’ to romantic overures cyclically, you need to study the cycle, whilst doing all that other bullshit with the counselling etc

Marriage with kids is tough, I see this poor cow every morning on my ride, one toddler, one strapped to her chest and the bloody dog out in the freezing weather, she’d be wide open to some flattery, some flowers, a suggestion of a drink, whoever her moron husband is she’d be an easy pull.

Girls need constantly to be made to feel they are still attractive, despite their own desperate lack of self worth, their feeling ‘is this what it’s come to?’ their sense of being trapped whilst ‘he’ can still get on with his life and his hobbies.

Your girl needs to be cheered up she needs to be made to feel pretty, young and wanted and you are clearly not doing that, none of us do, once we’re in it for the long term, blokes are always thinking selfishly.

So, work harder at it before some bloke who thinks like me comes alongs and admires her new dress, her hair, the way she flutters her eyes, whatever and then waltzes off not only with her, but your girls as well.
She needs help, but not the sort you’re thinking of right now.

Sorry to be so blunt.

OP have you tried seeing a counsellor yourself? Getting an independent and non invested/judgemental view may help you discover the best route? Its worth exploring.