Should I forgive the SNP?

Anyway, back on track of the OP’s point. Should he forgive the SNP?. As Al said, forgive for what?. I fail to see why anyone would vote for any of the other parties in Scotland.

Labour are going to get their worst result for many a long year North of the border, off the back of their behaviour at indyref, but also voting that blairite **** as their leader.

Precisely nothing, so why do you have such a big problem with it?

So you accept that the SNP would be a Westminster Party? Thank you.

I have a problem with not having the opportunity to vote for policies that may affect me whether adversely or not, as someone who rejects ‘Westminster Politics’as being unrepresentative of Scottish interests then you can surely see how having policy imposed without even the chance to vote for or against that policy is inherently suspect?

You say a change of name and the SNP would get elected in England, I believe certain of their policies may well sit comfortably with sectors of the English electorate – but we aren’t getting the chance are we?
Let them stand in England/Wales/N.l. and put those policies forward.

then you can surely see how having policy imposed without even the chance to vote for or against that policy is inherently suspect

Pssst – I’ll let you in on a wee secret. Each and every government in the history of the world has imposed policies that the people didn’t have a chance to vote for or against.

Yep, but we had the chance to vote for that party as a country.

So people had the choice to go to war in Iraq did they?

They haven’t done half the damage they could do, so I would hold back in the forgiveness.

Probably the most dangerous of the protest parties and the most odious. And UKIP takes some beating on both scores!!

How come the Lib Dems are allowed to prop up a government, but the SNP aren’t?

btw OP, get over yourself, you’re not that important! 😆

teamhurtmore – Member
They haven’t done half the damage they could do, so I would hold back in the forgiveness.

Probably the most dangerous of the protest parties and the most odious. And UKIP takes some beating on both scores!!

Here he is!. Took longer than I expected.

btw i thought the result of losing the referendum was to keep scottish votes at westminster, you canny complain that we actually use them now ffs! 😆 this is what youse wanted….

I think if Labour align themselves with the SNP to form a coalition to secure a majority to form a government this will push a lot of died in the wool English labour voters to desert the party on mass. There is still a lot of anger about the SNP trying to split the Union. Not sure how it will sit with a lot of English voters to have the SNP dictating Policy that will have a bigger effect in England than Scotland. Interesting times ahead me thinks.

I was born in England, spent my teens in Scotland, and am back in England because that’s how things worked out – and it wasn’t big deal because Scotland and England, while separate countries, are part of the UK, just like Lancashire and Yorkshire are part of England.

I like the direction SNP are going (but…). I like their policies for running Scotland, but I don’t think independence is the answer (I’ve no problem with devolution). I felt that a lot of the push behind independence was because:
a) Not liking the way the Tory led coalition was doing things and see independence as a way out.
b) As a vote catcher, Scotland’s proud heritage.
without any serious consideration of whether Scotland would be better off out of the UK. Democracy does mean you may have to accept policies you don’t like, but the alternative is fragmentation, which I don’t think works in today’s world.

A lot of other people in the UK (eg, most of the North of England) don’t like the coalition either, and we’d be better off if we stuck together to oppose it. Trying to split from any union because you don’t like what the rest are doing seems a bit selfish, although I understand the reasons (and the history). So if the SNP wanted to be a UK party, I might support it, but only if it stops wanting independence – which I accept it’s not likely to do.

Birmingham food bank[/url]

I feel it would be nice for the SNP to ask for forgiveness from people reliant on the above.
6 months ago the SNP held these people in disregard, and should be someone elses problem.
At the very least an apology for wishing to walk away, if they now wish to champion their cause.

Don’t get me wrong, I am glad they may now help, however the 2 faced cheek, hypocracy, and self congratulating on show during Nicola Sturgeon’s speech was not required IMO.

The SNP has been building up to that last referendum for a hell of a lot longer than the coalition has existed greybeard. They want independence as they genuinely believe that is the best way forward for scots, not as some anti English or anti Tory agenda, much as some find that hard to swallow.

died in the wool English labour voters

Who are they then? Most of the english labour voters I know would welcome some influence from the SNP with open arms. They do after all have a lot of policies that most traditional labour voters wish the current labour party would adopt. It’s hilarious, and deeply ironic that the same people who went to such length to keep Scotland in the union, are now openly creating divisions and seeking to deny scottish voters the influence which they were desperate for them to keep.

Athgray, you’re just using this post as another way to attack the SNP. Even THM wouldn’t blame the inner city poverty South of the border on the SNP.

Where have I apportioned any blame regarding Birmingham’s inner city poverty to the SNP?The difference between us is that I try not to see the border.
I would genuinly consider voting for them though in the current situation.

I have no problem with a Scottish political party having a say in how the UK is governed ie the Union, what I find funny is a Party hell bent on Independence selling there vote and principle’s now a chance of power crops up. A lot of labour supporters up here in the North of England felt deserted by the SNP ie their vote would of helped to possibly get a Labour majority in this election. I would be surprised now if we ever see single party politics in my lifetime, coalitions are here to stay I think.

A lot of labour supporters up here in the North of England felt deserted by the SNP

Eh whit?

I’m like greybeard and athgray – the whole nationalist thing bothers me greatly. I genuinely believe the UK is stronger as just that – a United Kingdom. I live in the north and frankly we have more in common with Scotland than London. When I expressed similar views on the independence thread last year the attitude of many was ‘tough shit’ about the poor in the rest of the UK. So to hear that the SNP supporters are suddenly bothered is a little surprising…

This is just going to end up like the Indy thread. I’m away to talk shite about tyres, five tens and woodburners. As you were.

I would genuinly consider voting for them though in the current situation.

Course you would as that previous post and everything you said on the referendum thread shows

Aye poster above is right we did a thousand page insult fest. Do we need to keep going over it ? No ones mind is going to be changed

Follows no beer to other threads

When I expressed similar views on the independence thread last year the attitude of many was ‘tough shit’ about the poor in the rest of the UK. So to hear that the SNP supporters are suddenly bothered is a little surprising…

Mainly because we’ve never been in a situation where we could make any difference. That situation may change, but given the chance to get off the sinking boat and on to a life raft, or stick with the sinking boat and try to fix it, I know what I’d choose.

What @seosam says, the vote was No so Scottish MPs get to sit at Westminster. If SNP MPs can extract more concessions via a coalition with Labour that will be a victory for them but I don’t see it as that damages Labour in the medium / long term. I think it’s more likely a vote for the SNP makes a Tory government / coalition more likely. No one should delude themselves that the SNP would do anything positive for the UK as a whole, it’s just not in their DNA.

**** this shit

I might even read a thread about bikes

athgray – Member
Birmingham food bank

I feel it would be nice for the SNP to ask for forgiveness from people reliant on the above.
6 months ago the SNP held these people in disregard, and should be someone elses problem.
At the very least an apology for wishing to walk away, if they now wish to champion their cause.

Don’t get me wrong, I am glad they may now help, however the 2 faced cheek, hypocracy, and self congratulating on show during Nicola Sturgeon’s speech was not required IMO.you keep waffling on about food banks, tell me, why have their numbers gone up about 10 fold in the last 5 years under the uk parliament.

Seems to me your argument is nothing more than waffle tbh. you are clutching to a point that has bugger all basis in reality.

AD – Member
I expressed similar views on the independence thread last year the attitude of many was ‘tough shit’ about the poor in the rest of the UK. So to hear that the SNP supporters are suddenly bothered is a little surprising..

The attitude was not tough shit, it was what the **** can we do about it, and what are westminster doing about it…

Those questions still stand.

btw, I reckon far too many people are believing tory propaganda in this thread about how much power the SNP will have. Seems to be a distinct lack of understanding as to how a minority government will work. (The snp will get some concessions for supporting a labour manifesto, when they can. That is vastly different from being a puppet master.)

Lets put it this way, how much power do the lib dems have? Not an awful lot beyond what the tories are willing to give them at the moment… We aren’t living under lib dem policy at the moment, we are living under tory policy with a few lib dem concessions that suit the tories(changed tax rates, essentially)

btw, I’m not an SNP supporter, I’ll only give them my vote if it’s a closer run thing in my constituency between them and labour. Otherwise I’ll be looking elsewhere. (I actually don’t understand peoples fear of them to be honest, they are just another centrist party like labour and the tories, slightly more about social equality, but not much.)

Anyway, back on track of the OP’s point. Should he forgive the SNP?. As Al said, forgive for what?. I fail to see why anyone would vote for any of the other parties in Scotland.

Because whilst I agree with a lot of their social policies I can’t vote for a party who are so economically clueless they don’t even know how currency works.

I have no interest what she looks like BTW. Most politicians by definition look pretty much like lizards to me 🙂

One thing I cannot stand – a bad winner.

You won, move on.

muddydwarf – Member

Is it democratic if, as looks likely, the SNP get to impose their policies (regardless of what they actually are) on an electors that had no opportunity to to actually vote for them?

Seems no less democratic than that the Tories get to impose their policies on electors that had the opportunity to vote for them, and told them to **** off, really.

Labour are going to get their worst result for many a long year North of the border, off the back of their behaviour at indyref, but also voting that blairite **** as their leader.

The choice of Murphy as their leader is baffling, it’s almost like Scottish Labour want to get as few votes as possible, the guy is an obnoxious career politician, he really creeps me out as well, reminds me of Voldemort.

you keep waffling on about food banks, tell me, why have their numbers gone up about 10 fold in the last 5 years under the uk parliament.

The answer to this is surprisingly simple.

Historically food waste has been sent to landfill. Landfill tax has risen tenfold in 20 years so it’s now cheaper for retailers to pay for it to be taken to food banks and given away for free than dumping it in a hole in the ground.

Incidentally, food banks doubled under the last Labour government as well, and for the same reason, not that you’ll hear any Labour MPs having the honesty to admit this.

Ok quick question, is that a wig Sturgeon wears or is it just a really sh*t haircut?

It’s pretty sad when labour are routed not because they have the wrong policies but because they had the cheek to be on the same (correct) side as those nasty Tories. So instead they should have joined forces with a party that lied its way through an independence debate on all key areas of policy and would put the well being of Scots behind their own political egos and agendas.

Great state of affairs?!? Not surprising that posters here and AS today elsewhere are keen to suppress dissent. Worrying though that people fall for it, not least the breathtaking hypocrisy. Of course, the “discredited Westminster system” provided dear Nicola with an appropriately obscure smokescreen to hide behind.

As before, be careful what you wish before (and we all deserve better, but that’s obvious.)

would put the well being of Scots behind their own political egos and agendas

An unfair criticism motivated by your personal antipathy towards them. They think scotland is better off independent and they are motivated , as are most politicians , even the ones i personallly and political loathe, by improving the lot of the country/people. Whilst you are free to disagree with them as to what their goal will achieve they are not doing it, as you well know, for the reasons you state
Please dont make up reasons [ ad homs basically] for why they want to do this whilst [ ironically] chastising them for lying.
I really have no idea what it is about the SNP that makes you criticise them so harshly whilst doing the very things you criticise them for.

Labour have been routed for being dire and for nto having the policies that the Scottish people want, it was not the union ALONE that has led to this their entire policies, leadership and agenda is one that does not appeal to the Scottish electorate.
IMHO if the rUk had a credible left wing alternative folk like say myself and Binners would also be leaving the Labour Part. We are only here because the rest are worse. Labour has lost its way IMHO and has tried to hard for the centre ground so that it is little more than a [ slightly] nicer bunch of tories

The answer to this is surprisingly simple.

As are you. Are you seriously suggesting that the huge increase in food bank use is because of landfill tax? Nothing to do with many more people needing their help? Oh, and foodbanks often don’t get the food drect from supermarkets, and it’s not usually surplus food – it’s bought and donated by the public.

Ok quick question, is that a wig Sturgeon wears or is it just a really sh*t haircut?

Go on, show us all how gorgeous you are. Pathetic.

Is there a trade sale in mirrors?

Suppress the truth, ban the beep, control the message…. 😉

Funnily enough the “red Tories” and the SNPs track record in introducing private provision of healthcare would make the real Tories blush.