Should I forgive the Labour Party?

If “the richest” all clear off, how does that help the poorest BTW ?

Curious that the supply of labour within the heady heights of banking appears to be one small pool of personnel, so small that we CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE ANY OF THEM. Apparently you have to pay a lot of money for talent…and its a special kind of talent that bankrupts your economy.

If they don’t like it, they can leave. There will be plenty to replace them.

Hmm, that sounds familiar…thats right, its the tactic their kind have used on everyone else since year dot.

but many many senior jobs gone in London. I personally think this is a factor in the reduction of average earnings as these are all above average paying jobs

The master of understatement strikes again! 😆

Seems to be quite a ping pong on non doms, anyway, entirely unrelated, I was wondering what the crowds opinion was on the ‘tax differences’ between PAYE, self employed and director status was.

If they don’t like it, they can leave. There will be plenty to replace them.

You make the mistake of thinking that thrm ‘leaving’ means leaving their jobs – this is the 21st century age of technology, truth is they will still be doing the same job, still getting the same money, just resident elsewhere so we don’t see a penny of it (and more likely than not taking a bunch of their employees who do pay lots of scrumptious tax with them)

It sounds to me that the filthy rich haven’t got enough money. We obviously need to shower them with even more money and perhaps exempt them from all taxes.

Like that we will all be better off as they get even richer, at our expense. It makes perfect sense.

Anyone who can’t see the sense of making filthy rich people even richer is clearly guilty of ‘politics of envy’.

ernie_lynch – Member
Anyone who can’t see the sense of making filthy rich people even richer is clearly guilty of ‘politics of envy’

There is a law of diminishing returns and also of unintended consequences in regard to taxing the uber rich.

Whilst the subject warrants attention, it needs to be remembered that the system is trying to outwit the portion of society which is comprised of individuals who may be any or all of the following; the most powerful, well connected, intelligent, hardworking, quick-thinking and well educated.

FWIW I do know of high-earners who have already left the UK altogether, purely as a result of taxation. The UK now gets 0% of the benefit of either their earnings or cost of living expenditure – it might benefit from a few exports to them indirectly.

I have received my postal vote confirmation yesterday so I shall be voting before you lot … 😆

Seems to be quite a ping pong on non doms, anyway, entirely unrelated, I was wondering what the crowds opinion was on the ‘tax differences’ between PAYE, self employed and director status was.

@towzer, personally as someone who’s been PAYE I feel like a sitting duck for the tax man/government whilst business owners have a huge amount of flexibility, tax allowances, lower tax rates etc. Even pensions are seen as fair game these days. I think if I had my time again I would focus on starting a business and not doing a more normal job. I did give that a try in 2012/3 but it didn’t work out, from a tax perspective it would have been much more favourable.

I have received my postal vote confirmation yesterday so I shall be voting before you lot …

Will see if mine has arrived at the weekend. BTW are you based outside the UK ? i was trying to fund dates voting slips are sent out yesterday but could only find registration dates.

I wonder how this will play out in the polls, is Labours’ portrayal of the tories as the party of the elite tax avoiders working? (regardless of how effective it might be or indeed if it would ever get passed into law)

its been countered by a bitchy, ‘Millibands a backstabber and will get us all nuked’ we saw today
im not sure if that was a panicked response after labours best polls of the year coming out yesterday and the tory vulnerability at the elitism claim

There is a law of diminishing returns and also of unintended consequences in regard to taxing the uber rich

And don’t forget the law which states that the “uber rich” never have quite enough money and always need more.

@kimbers indeed it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Polls I saw had things still neck and neck between Tories and Labour, not much change really.

yeah very little in it,
also, interesting to see what happens with ukip, theyve crashed out in the polls, only a couple of months ago they were a dire threat to labour and the tories, im not sure if they just peaked too soon or if the constant drip of negative stories has beat them down

FWIW I do know of high-earners who have already left the UK altogether, purely as a result of taxation. The UK now gets 0% of the benefit of either their earnings or cost of living expenditure – it might benefit from a few exports to them indirectly.

Society is probably better off without such greedy borderline sociopaths.

I find it astonishing this argument of ‘let’s not try and tax the super rich as they’ll only wriggle out of it’. How about ‘let’s not bother trying to catch serious criminals because they’re really good at evading capture’ or ‘let’s not bother going after the worst benefit cheats as they’re really good at fraud’. Yet somehow people have been brainwashed into thinking that it’s perfectly acceptable. 😕

We do tax the super rich though. It is a reality though that the richer you are the more able you are to avoid tax via the organisation of your affairs. Warren Buffett is hugely wealthy on paper via his ownership of Berkshire Hathaway but he is able to shelter most of that from tax via the company. Sadly we are unable to address corporate tax avoidance as countries like Ireland and Luxembourg actively encourage it for their own benefit. Super rich individuals are able to do the same.

digga – Member

FWIW I do know of high-earners who have already left the UK altogether, purely as a result of taxation. The UK now gets 0% of the benefit of either their earnings or cost of living expenditure – it might benefit from a few exports to them indirectly.

How do they do their high earning? Likewise I know of several who chose to leave the country, and you know what? We lost their tax, but someone else took over and they do pay tax. Essentially, we lost some ****s and in their place, some better human beings are now doing well.

jambalaya – Member

I have received my postal vote confirmation yesterday so I shall be voting before you lot …

Will see if mine has arrived at the weekend. BTW are you based outside the UK ? i was trying to fund dates voting slips are sent out yesterday but could only find registration dates. [/quote]

I am based in the North East in a very sunny county with nice people who love to drink and to party. Wahey! 😀

So the Torygraph finally runs the Flanders story – tomorrow the “earth is round” revelation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11526188/Ed-Miliband-was-dating-senior-BBC-economics-journalist-Stephanie-Flanders-when-he-was-at-the-Treasury.html

Amazing that he used to talk economics and yet now he seems to have forgotten most of it. The Flanders trio F x E^2 is slightly mind boggling though

Still despite everything Ed opening up a slight advantage in the polls this morning. Maybe focusing on non-issues that make good headlines is the trick after all. He could try currency is an asset and perhaps that might start a recovery north of the wall.

The only good news from the election stories so far, is the fracture of the UKIP bubble. How did it take that long? Was it Farrage’s promise to resign if he lost his seat?

@Northwind – you seem to have this view that anyone successful with money is a ****
The guy I know who retired to Singapore has about £1m a year in investment earnings after selling his businesses for £15m. If he stayed in the UK that would be £250-£400k of taxes, in Singapore he pays close to zero as investment income is tax free. We lose tax and we lose his spending and his considerable expertise, he still runs a few businesses in that region, if he lived in the UK he’s probably do the same here creating employment and passing on his knowledge. Its not as simple as to say if someone leaves another person just “does their job”, in many cases the jobs leave with the person. He comes back to the UK for his 90 days a year, that’s more than enough to do most of the stuff any of us would want to do. He spends the summer in the Med.

Anyway we cannot and should not try and compete with Singapore’s zero tax but on the margin these are important considerations

tmh I think UKIP’s strongest showing for the time being is going to be European Elections and By-elections. I think the potential Tory waverers to UKIP don’t want to see a Labour government. I looked at the Borough I’ll be voting in and its a straight race between Lib Dems and Conservative, UKIP are miles back.

EDIT: BTW do you think this Flanders story is really newsworthy ? Trying to make some implication of impropriety seems pretty weak, BBC journalist with politician. The fact she dated both Ed Balls and Miliband, who cares ?

How do they do their high earning?

Why ask when…

Essentially, we lost some ****s and in their place, some better human beings are now doing well.

…they are condemned already!!

Northwind – Member

digga – Member
FWIW I do know of high-earners who have already left the UK altogether…

How do they do their high earning? Likewise I know of several who chose to leave the country, and you know what? We lost their tax, but someone else took over and they do pay tax. Essentially, we lost some ****s and in their place, some better human beings are now doing well.[/quote]They are mostly in financial services, although one is a (very senior) mech engineer, so on the most part they could base themselves anywhere with an internet connection, and do.

FWIW and IMHO, as far as being ‘fair’, UKIP is the only party talking about increasing GDP and immigration eroding the living standard of ordinary people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn4x-4RcGnY

Ukip are crashing out because the election is imminent, they are swivel eyed loons, they are making loads of mistakes and their previous success was purely by election protest vote.

The group that will have a significant impact is the SNP who have made it impossible for Labour to win, leaving the Conservatives as the largest party without a majority. The Lib Dems will get wiped out so they can’t prop them up this time, hung parliament here we come.

The irony is the party wanting to split up the Union is likely to have the most positive effect on finally shaking up politics long term. Thank God they lost the referendum.

As for Labour, they should be storming into power on tbe back of the last 5 years of Conservative non governance. They should be genuinely embarrased they are where they are in the polls.

Yes the populous poll has a Lab/SNP coalition well ahead in terms of most likely result

So the trident thread could be a 100 pager.

After a fortnight, the polls on seats are unchanged. Can we have the vote now and just get on with it?

Interesting the poll shows that if Jim Murphy claimed back just 5% of voters, the Lab seats would more than double (in Scotland). But if the SNO gain another 2%, then labours seats go down to just 5!!!

The group that will have a significant impact is the SNP who have made it impossible for Labour to win

They’ve made it much less likely that they’ll win an overall majority, but much more likely that they’ll end up in government. It’s a win-win for us anti-tory, anti-nu-labour types. We get a labour govt with a further left minor partner who will prevent them from doing anything tory-like. And even if the lib-dems keep a decent number of MPs, something tells me they won’t want to go into coalition again. They need to rehabilitate themselves with the electorate and their supporters and siding with the tories again will not do that.

something tells me they won’t want to go into coalition again

Don’t underestimate the appeal of power.

Ernie, we meet again.

And don’t forget the law which states that the “uber rich” never have quite enough money and always need more.

Remember the Uber Rich employ people. These people who are employed then go on to pay tax and stimulate the economy. The Uber rich also pay tax, to an extent, and yes I agree tax avoidance should be debated. The motivation if Uber rich people to earn money results in research, development, innovation and technological advances.

What is wrong with people being successful in life? Would you prefer a socialist state like Cuba? I wouldn’t, as it would completely suck all motivation out of me and you.

The motivation if Uber rich people to earn money results in research, development, innovation and technological advances.

involved in much r&d then?

id say the majority of innovation (certainly in medical research) happens in state/charity funded university research departments and its then spun off into the private sector but usually still developed in concert with the unis and NHS for example

I fail to see how your logic of uber rich people driving r&d and innovation makes any sort of sense

Would you prefer a socialist state like Cuba?

I think the answer to that lies in his name…

Hi Kimbers. To an extent I am involved in research. The graphene institute at the Uni of Manchester use my machines to test. Astra Zeneca is Knutsford use my machines to test, Sheffield University use my machines to teach. The list is endless. But my point isn’t about research entirely. Companies have to evolve, develop and innovate new products to remain competitive, which in turn drives profit and growth.

The motivation if Uber rich people to earn money results in research, development, innovation and technological advances.

You mean the billionaires funding medical research, space exploration, the LHC, university research etc? Who are they then? I was under the impression that the vast majority of funding for these are paid for by governments.

And don’t forget the law which states that the “uber rich” never have quite enough money and always need more.

Not to mention the law that states “if we tax the uber rich they’ll leave the country and we won’t have anyone left who’s competent to run a bank (*) “

(*) yes – I know it’s hard to type that with a straight face

Not to mention the law that states “if we tax the uber rich they’ll leave the country and we won’t have anyone left who’s competent to run a bank (*) “

If that’s true why aren’t they all already living in Monaco or Luxembourg?

You mean the billionaires funding medical research, space exploration, the LHC, university research etc? Who are they then? I was under the impression that the vast majority of funding for these are paid for by governments.

Funded by governments with hardware supplied by private companies. Think outside the box a little bit.

@binners I think those are legitimate concerns but unless someone has been convicted of a crime how do you decide if someone is “dodgy” ?

Same way you’ve decided all Greeks are “dodgy”, for pages and pages and pages?

You mean the billionaires funding medical research, space exploration, the LHC, university research etc? Who are they then? I was under the impression that the vast majority of funding for these are paid for by governments.

Are you not eternily grateful for the research that Russian oligarchs, and their ilk, are funding… into owning football clubs, massive yachts, diamond encrused Bentleys, enormous cinemas underneath their Nightsbridge mansions, and gaudy tasteless watches?

Because I bloody well am!!

*doffs cap*

hardware supplied by private companies

But you said the Uber rich fund R&D, not private companies. Most of the biggest private companies are owned by pubic shareholders, not by the ‘uber rich’. Some, like the one I work for are owned by the staff, and operate without any ‘uber rich’ people at the top. It’s perfectly possible for the private sector to operate and be successful without there needing to be some rich people at the top creaming off all the profits, so making the uber rich pay more tax would have negligable effect on the success of these companies, and certainly wouldn’t have any impact on R&D or innovation.

Just imagine if anyone in Britain had jobs making football stadiums/luxury yachts/bentleys/cinemas/watches?

Oh yeah… ‘trickle down economics’? The more yachts Roman Abromivich buys, the better off we all are a society? And we should be thankful for his benevolant largesse?

He could alwys just pay some tax instead?

Just a thought….

Well, he’s made his money abroad, and he’s going to buy the yacht anyway – would you rather it was a yacht designed, built, crewed and maintained in the UK, or somewhere else (like Germany)?