A long time ago they stood for what was right in the world and did a good job of sticking up for the man in the street. Then it all went to shit and they tried to out Tory the Tories.

Should I forgive them?

😉

No. Absolutely not. Every Labour govt there’s ever been has ended in near-bankruptcy and shame. What was it Einstein said about repeating the same process and expecting a different outcome? This time around we even have the same characters that got us into this mess hoping that everyone will have since forgotten. We haven’t, so tell them to get stuffed.

Should I forgive the Labour Party?

But they haven’t done anything wrong

Every Labour govt there’s ever been has ended in near-bankruptcy and shame.

Trust a tory to only think of financial consequences, not that the statement is true however.

Einstein said about repeating the same process and expecting a different outcome?

Th same can be said for the blue corner.

This time around we even have the same characters that got us into this mess hoping that everyone will have since forgotten.

The Myth of the “Labour government” causing the banks to bankrupt themselves, creating the worldwide recession?

The only shameful thing Labour did was to follow conservative style ideology to its disastrous conclusion.

I won’t forgive Blair. I bet I’m not alone in that.

For becoming electable?

I’ll never forgive this man for his shameless betrayal….

And if you look at the sorry state of the present Labour party, you have to lay the blame at his door. He hollowed out the party from the inside, and left it in its pointless and rudderless Tory-lite state

For becoming electable?

Personally I though the Tories became unelectable so there was no need for the lurch to the right

How about forgiving the people who voted him in?

How about forgiving the people who voted him in?

A mixture of deception and desperation does not usually need forgiving.

I see

No, absolutely not.

Dragging us into unncecessary wars
Obliterating the economy and jobs – every labour government has left office with higher unemployment than what they started with.
Selling our gold reserves for some magic beans
Starting the privatisation of the NHS and now hitting all time lows of double standards and weaponising it in their political campaign whilst the labour run Welsh NHS falls to its knees in desperation.

A complete shower of ****.

“There’s no money left. Good luck.”

My Dear late father, bless him, will be turning in his grave at the fact that at this moment in time, Scottish Labour are probably the last party I would vote for.

I won’t forgive Blair. I bet I’m not alone in that.

You’re not alone. If I don’t ever get to see him stand trial in The Hague, I’d at the very least hope that the Labour Party publicly denounces him, his policies and his legacy.

How about forgiving the people who voted him in?

I voted for him in the very first election I was eligible to vote in (I missed April 1992 by four days). I was young, believed that the message of change emanating from the hype meant and end to Thatcherism and the return to a fairer society.

I made a mistake, as did several million voters. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Tory government collect a massive kick in the Cholmondeleys on election night.

Dragging us into unncecessary wars

Like the Tories would have done any different. That criticism is only valid if you support a party that was anti-war.

Obliterating the economy and jobs – every labour government has left office with higher unemployment than what they started with.

Not like Tory hero Maggie then. Oh…..

Dragging us into unncecessary wars

Not many labour supporters will disagree. Remind me though how many tories voted against Iraq?

Obliterating the economy and jobs

The longest postwar period of unbroken growth accompanied by near full employment until the bankers screwed it up. You’re right though, if only they’d regulated the banks and raised taxes when times were good just like the tories said they should…

Selling our gold reserves for some magic beans

Jesus are people still banging on about that?

Starting the privatisation of the NHS and now hitting all time lows of double standards and weaponising it in their political campaign whilst the labour run Welsh NHS falls to its knees in desperation.

Using the NHS in the election campaign. How very dare they!

Once again I’m forced into defending them again 🙁 I’ve said it before but I think this tory trait of re-writing history and telling unfounded horror stories will ultimately backfire.

Not like Tory hero Maggie then. Oh…..

We are all Thatcherites now

The Prince of Darkness 2002 😉

Selling our gold reserves for some magic beans

This is a particularly ridiculous criticism for Tory supporters to make given they are continuing to sell off the few national assets we have left to their mates, for peanuts.

This is a particularly ridiculous criticism for Tory supporters to make given they are continuing to sell off the few national assets we have left to their mates, for peanuts.

Like what – and is it more or less than the c£450B of outsourcing and PFI that the last government presided over?

Absolutely **** not NO.

– runaway spending funded by debt
– taking the country to war through lies
– no border control and calling anyone ‘racist’ who disagreed with their ‘enrichment’

runaway spending funded by debt

Before the bank bailouts debt was at 70% of GDP, on a par with Germany.

taking the country to war through lies

139 labout MPs voted against, 15 tories.

no border control and calling anyone ‘racist’ who disagreed with their ‘enrichment’

Not a necessarily racists, just idiots with short memories.

There was definitely border control under the labour government, I remember having to show my passport, well not going to Scotland or Wales, is that where you expect border controls to be set up?

Any Labour leader would have gone to war in Iraq (ie any Labour MP who would have had a realistic chance of being elected as leader) as would a Con-Dem coalition

Blair delivered 10+ years of a Labour government after 18 (?) years in the wilderness. Introduction of the minimum wage. I really don’t get the hate about policy. It seems to me his financial success post being PM is what really grates.

Perhaps if Blair and Campbell hadn’t presented their “45 minutes” BS dossier then there might have been a lot.

Perhaps if Blair and Campbell hadn’t presented their “45 minutes” BS dossier then there might have been a lot.

Maybe, but are you really saying that the majority of tory MPs were so naive and gullible to accept what most of the public could see was a load of b*llox?

To be fair British governments have been juggling water, managing Britain’s decline for the last 30-40 years, with the shift in world power and our diminished grip on the allocation of resources, it’s really starting to hit home now. I agree the chronic complacency, short termism, lack of investment for the future, selling assets in bent deals for peanuts, bribing the electorate with market bubbles and unsustainable white elephants, has made the impact of these things much worse.

The adjustments over the coming decades are going to be brutal, with us the populace paying more for less of everything. Don’t bank on any state percs or the privileged lifestyle our older generation has become accustomed to, we won’t get any of it.

Should we forgive maybe, forget no, but they were not the only villains in this.

You knew it was all BS at the time ? Wow! Must admit that I didn’t.

Any Labour leader would have gone to war in Iraq

Pointless guessing that w ehave no way of assessing

It seems to me his financial success post being PM is what really grates.

yes that will be it as before that there was almost no criticism of him at all

[Mc Enroe voice] you cannot be serious[/Mc Enroe voice]

That is a rather strange point to make No doubt many do begrudge the envoy of peace his millions [ myself included] but if he gave it all away to charity I would still call him a **** and demand he faces trial. I find it hard to believe anyone could really think this is the main cause of people disliking the lying warmonger

Jesus are people still banging on about that?

Well yes, it was a monumental **** up.

ng the NHS in the election campaign. How very dare they!

That’s not really an answer. They are making out that the Tories are ruining the NHS. A bit hypocritical as they put the policies in place.

As for the whole war thing, I don’t think anyone could say that they would have done exactly the same thing. The Blair / Bush duo is one of the biggest evils of recent times, compare Cameron / Obama record and it is night and day.

Selling our gold reserves for some magic beans

This is a particularly ridiculous criticism for Tory supporters to make given they are continuing to sell off the few national assets we have left to their mates, for peanuts. [/quote]

Especially as the Gold was sold at the market value for the time and no one was complaining as the Gold price had been stable for ages.

Well yes, it was a monumental **** up.

Not really. You could argue that at some point Gold will be back at that price and you could just buy it back if you really wanted. Not that there’d be any point to doing so. An asset was sold at its market value and the money spent on something useful.

Don’t forget it was ‘Labour’ who began the War Against The Poor; handing the Coalition a baton they were only too pleased to run with. Nor ID cards; and the raft of police state legislation, or the bailing out of the bankers … The party remains unreconstructedly Blairite and rotten to the core.

No; never forget, and never forgive.

Not really. You could argue that at some point Gold will be back at that price and you could just buy it back if you really wanted. Not that there’d be any point to doing so. An asset was sold at its market value and the money spent on something useful.

😯

Not only did he sell it at an all time low after a gradual decline, he announced to the markets weeks before hand that he was going to sell thus plummeting prices further. He also sold at auction which was unusual and always commands a lower price. But lets not beat about the bush, this was all about bailing out the banks by offloading cheap gold to them that they could sell on at a profit. We can’t mention that though can we. (I’m guess that is what you were referring to about spending it on something useful – bank bailouts?)

At least when the Tories have had to bailout the banks this time after Labour ****ed things up again they made a profit off it.

JY I am scratching around for why all the hatred, I don’t see its deserved at all. Perhaps he wasn’t seen to do enough for classic Labour working class voter but if he had aligned the party like that Labour would never have been elected.

BTW selling Gold for 350 only to see it rally to 1500+ (edited) is always going to attract critism. Probably unfair given the cut price sales conducted by Tories not least the recent Post Office fiasco (conveniently blamed on Cable).

ID cards are a good idea. Many countries have them (France do and its compulsory to carry them) and our lack of them is often quoted by potential illegal immigrants as an attraction of the the UK

Labour had little choice other than bail out the banks, they should have got more (total) mgmt control especially at RBS and they crippled Lloyds by encouraging them to buy HBOS

Labour did have stronger anti-terrorism powers than the Con-Dems

I would love an ID card – bloody useful to have instead of lugging a passport around.

Probably unfair given the cut price sales conducted by Tories not least the recent Post Office fiasco

Yeah you are right, it was undervalued to the tune of £180M.

If Brown had waited to sell the gold it would have netted an extra £9Bn.

Incomparable, especially as the long term economic benefits of having a more efficiently run royal mail will make the £180M fade into insignificance.

No mention of the tip of the iceberg that is Rotherham yet…There ya go.
If you can forgive that you can forgive anything. You decide…

(I’m guess that is what you were referring to about spending it on something useful – bank bailouts?)

The two didn’t coincide if you look at the times…

The money would have just entered the general pot from which all expenditure occurs. As for the bank bailouts they happened later on and coincidently caused the rapid rise in Gold price (safe haven etc). Most of the bailouts were funded by debt, which was added to the UK balance sheet.

But then you knew all that, it just doesn’t sound so exciting.

Incomparable, especially as the long term economic benefits of having a more efficiently run royal mail will make the £180M fade into insignificance.

Unclear that you will actually get that. Private companies aren’t necessarily any better run. Personally I suspect RM is in long term decline (hence I’ve sold all my shares).

I am scratching around for why all the hatred, I don’t see its deserved at all.

I can see why someoen may disagree with it. I cannot see how someone cannot know why.

Perhaps he wasn’t seen to do enough for classic Labour working class voter but if he had aligned the party like that Labour would never have been elected.

the tories were unelectable and look at what John Smith achieved – it was not necessary at all to align the party to the right.

Also, during his[john smith] time as leader, the Labour party gained a significant lead in the polls over the Conservatives and on 5 May 1994, the Conservatives received a severe defeat in the council elections in Britain, their worst in over 30 years, despite the strong economic recovery and fall in unemployment that had followed the declaration of the recession’s end in April 1993.[5] Labour’s opinion poll lead was shown to be as high as 23% in early May 1994.