Shorter stem? Worth the bother?

I currently have a 50mm stem on a Codeine. Will I notice any difference if I go to a 35mm stem (length, not bar clamp) ?

And does anyone sell such stems that are not either absurdly expensive, or fugly, or out of stock to try out?

Ragley do stems down to 40mm at a really good price and I’m really pleased with the quality of mine.  Don’t know if the change you suggest will make much difference.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ragley-stubbing-stem/rp-prod122312

Two budget options to try but guess you already know about these with your out of stock reference (unless you’re not fussy about colour)

https://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/STEGOUT/el-guapo-outlaw-stem

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/funn-funnduro-stem/rp-prod156041

And yes I think you will notice a difference between a 50mm and 35mm stem. Whether it’s a change for the better you will have to find out 🙂

If you don’t mind an extra 5mm the Ragley Stubbing stem can be had in 40mm version for not too outrageous a price

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ragley-stubbing-stem/rp-prod122312?gs=1&sku=sku439119UK&pgrid=43646971904&ptaid=pla-103436231116&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE-Shopping+QLB+Manufacturer+Desktop&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid|sAsBsdfjU_dc|pcrid|161845658788|pkw||pmt||prd|439119UK

Edit: Beaten to it 🙂

I got an On One El Guapo 35mm one.  Looks pretty cool actually.  Trying to decide between that and a 50mm on the Patriot.  I have both though so I just swap them around to try them out.

I have a library of cheap stems that I can try when ever I want.

I noticed going from a 40 to a 50 so I suppose you could notice it.

get the funnduro, it’s a great stem and a steal at £25.

it’ll probably make your bike feel too short though, if you’re on the 29er Codeine

I’ve got the Funnduro one and its a quality bit of kit. At 25 quid its an absolute steal.

And… yes… you will notice the difference

I’ve taken the collective’s advice – Funnduro on order, thanks! I shall report back.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/nukeproof-neutron-am-stem/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=582550

40mm and not to expensive

I went from a 60mm to a 45mm and noticed the difference, am tempted to go down to 35mm now also.

Let us know how you get on OP.

First note about how much backsweep you have on your bars, you may get into the minus (behind stem). Bike will feel more quick in steering response (but sometimes to much, esp blasting downhill and it becomes twitchy) and thus you’ll also need a slacker head angle (more trail to compensate).

Really like my RSP Trail 35mm stem. £27 after 5 off code and in stock at Tredz.

35mm stems seem to be very fashionable at the minute but that doesn’t necessarily make it a better choice for every bike. Modern 29er trail/enduro forks often have an axle offset of around 51mm. Do you really want to be weighting your front wheel from 16mm behind the front wheels axle?
Just a thought for you.

Modern 29er trail/enduro forks often have an axle offset of around 51mm.

X-Fusion McQueens, which are 27.5+/29, and hence have 46mm.

Yes – like nearly all pointed out: quite a difference! If better or worse you will find out.

Issue of riding style and trails you bike as well.

Looking back: biked some bikes way to long with the original stem. But as pointed out from you: issue of money as well…

Have fun!

I played around with a 50mm and a 40mm stem, swapping them a lot. Riding a section, going back, swapping stems then riding it again. Did this for about 6 months.

Back on 50mm stems on all my bikes now.

Different frames with different reach lengths, head angles, different fork trails etc. may suit different stem lengths but I don’t think anyone can say shorter always equals better.

Had a 35mm zero degree Corto on the Wazoo for about a year, replacing the default 80mm, before swapping to a 110mm 17 degree a few months back. The short stem felt fine until I started doing local hill reps, but I think I prefer the front end stability now of the longer stem when I hurtling down Woodmill Lane at ~30mph before the left sweeper.

I have swapped 50, 40 and 35mm between my full suss and hardtail and the only noticeable difference I felt was the shorter two made the ht a bit more cramped. Apart from that I would struggle to give any firm advantages or otherwise.

Saying that I probably don’t ride enough to compare properly.

Ill second the RSP (Raleigh special products) 35mm long stem from Tredz..

Its a fantastic bit of kit for the price.. Well made, nicely finished and light too!

if it had another brands name on it it would sell for twice the price..

I just wish they made them in other lengths too so I could put them on all of my bikes!

35mm stems seem to be very fashionable at the minute but that doesn’t necessarily make it a better choice for every bike. Modern 29er trail/enduro forks often have an axle offset of around 51mm. Do you really want to be weighting your front wheel from 16mm behind the front wheels axle?
Just a thought for you.

I don’t think there’s a sudden cut off where things get weird if you have a stem shorter than the fork offset. Look at motorbikes, they’ve never  had stems (well at least since they evolved into  motorbikes rather than a push bike shaped objects with an engine).

My fatty has 55mm offset and 50mm stem, once head angle, wheel diameter and everything else is accounted for it’s completely natural, just like 110mm stems used to be except the wheelbase is much longer. Component choice and geometry are a interdependent system, if you have a short stem you need more reach (for comfort if nothing else), and a slack HA to stop the short stem making the steering twitchy. If you have that you need a steeper SA to keep the weight forward, which also needs even more reach. And now the reach is that long you need longer chain stays to further weight the front wheel. So a short stem is one thing, but unless its combined with a steep SA and longer chain stays its not going to be quite the same effect, it’ll just unweight the front wheel.

Or in other words, unless you have good reasons, stick with what the designer picked.

If you listen to Cy’s podcast on their “longshot” geometry you’ll see that this is all motivated by a desire to have stems that are shorter than the fork offset since he feels this gives much better steering response. Basically it reduces the chance of the front wheel “tucking-in”.  I’ve been running 35mm stems on 29ers with 51mm offset forks for a couple of years now. Not really for the reach but simply because I prefer how they feel.

desire to have stems that are shorter than the fork offset since he feels this gives much better steering response.

I’ve heard that said before. Sounds nice, they’re both measurable lengths in the same ballpark so saying you need to have X shorter than Y for the best handling is a nice easily relateable thing to say. The thing that makes me question it is bar sweep, stem rise, head angle etc all construe to change the effective ‘steering length’ to something that bears no resemblance to the offset number at all so why tie them so closely together? Yes there may be a relationship there but it’s no where near as clear cut as to say one number must be shorter than the other, that’s just come about because people have noticed the lengths are similar and so jumped to the easy conclusion that the golden rule should be one must be shorter than the other when in fact the relationship is much more complex and needs to take into account lots more factors.

I’ve gone on a bit too long on that. Sorry.

Interesting that you’d chose to use Cotic as an example. Not that there’s anything wrong with Cotic bikes. I just wouldn’t take whatever their latest slant on their idea of the perfect geometry too seriously.. They’ll be sure to be pushing ideas that contradict their current thinking in one or two years time. Afterall. It’s what they’ve done from day one.

Bringing motorcycles into  the equation is just silly. The physics of turning a motorcycle and rider are very different to that of a bicycle and its rider.

@chestrockwell:

that’s the neat thing with this forum. Sooo many different opinions.

For you the stem didn’t make such a difference. For me it “changed the bike”. And that’s the neat thing about biking and the reason we are able to talk forever about them…

Guess also a hell of difficult Job for a bike designer. Lots aboout “haptics” and “feel”. Impossible to “nail down” these issues. But what I learned, for me: to try as much as possible “different stuff”. I always wonder about the mtb bikers which hate every gram too much on their bike. I don’t even feel a kg more. Don’t care about the tire weight and stuff like this. But hell – for me – the stem. Changes the bike – and takes lots of time to find the solution which works fine for each bike…

Well, I tried it out this morning.

First off – as said earlier, that Funn stem is great. It’s cheap (£25) comes in a shiny nice red colour, and most importantly, grips the bars and the steerer.

So, did having a 35mm stem make the bike completely awesome? I took it to a snowy Thetford Forest this morning to find out. Sorry, no pictures, I was having too much fun.

The first thing I noticed is that, unsurprisingly, it shortened the reach. While a 50mm stem felt spot-on, now it feels a bit cramped.

It might have been a bit sharper in the twisty-turny bits, but not massively. I didn’t hit any trees, but I didn’t hit any trees last time either.

There aren’t really any crazy scary descents at Thetford (no, the Beast does not count), so it’s really quite hard to know whether it improves things for descending.

While riding around, I was thinking about the comments on the Cotic video about stem length vs fork offset. Honestly, I think it’s probably cobblers. I think a shorter stem just reduces the leverage of the bars over the wheel and the tendency of the bike to rotate over the big rock you just stopped on because you weren’t going fast enough, dumping you into the nearest tree. But surely dropping your saddle gives you exactly the same effect?

I think what this tells me is that I probably need to go somewhere a bit gnarlier to find out for sure. Perhaps a cheeky morning trip later this week is in order, in the interests of science.

I measured the various bikes I use, measuring the distance from the centre of the seatpost to the centre line of the stem/bars. I think this tells me everything I need to know:

– Codeine: 605mm
– Stanton: 640mm
– Swift: 630mm

The Stanton is spot on, I never find myself thinking about the frame size, if I think about anything, it’s just about what a great frame it is. With the Swift, I often find myself thinking it’s too short.

This is unsagged, so that probably makes quite a big difference, since the Codeine also seemed fine with a 50mm stem when actually riding it.

Edit: I don’t think the suspension plays any part in that.