Shooting in Paris; casualties reported. Hope this isn't what it sounds like.

French president states it was an act of war by IS!!! Please let him have the facts to back this up as that is a very scary statement 😥

And all this goes back to the hunt for WMD’s that did not exist.

Sadam Gadafi and Assad are beginning to look like the good guys.

Assad has killed 5x as many civilians as ISIS – he’s certainly not a good guy. There’s very few good guys in this, only innocents trapped in the middle.

I cannot imagine what takes a human being to that place

Nor me but I imagine they’re either mad, or they think they’re doing it for some greater good. The RAF would have blown up a concert full of civilian German Factory workers in WW2 for the greater good so the logic that civilians are a worthwhile target for the greater good should be comprehensable to us.

Horrific events, my thoughts FWIW are with the victims and the families of the victims. Also let’s not forget the 100 or so who are maimed, blinded etc.

I do hope this means we continue to stay out of Syria although I suspect DC will see it as justification to lobby to go in.

I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper’s charter. Scum will be scum.

Sadam, Qadafi and Assad were / are anything but good guys. That said, to try to remove them with such limited thought given to the post-great leader country was <lost for words> insane? A horrific misjudgment? Naive in the extreme? Criminal?

What a mess.

Quote!

I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper’s charter. Scum will be scum.

I agree there are times and places, but that said, the solutions to all these interlinked problems and issues will be political, and as such politicians will be putting forward arguments for the solutions they think best. This kind of debate is necessary.

I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper’s charter. Scum will be scum.

It’s a reasonable point. If for example there were a couple of similar attacks in the UK and it was shown that better “snooping” powers would have possibly have prevented them where is the balance to be placed between privacy and terrorism prevention?

Scum will be scum

typical lefty attitude where someone they disagree with is scum rather than just holding a different opinion. I disagree with many politicians but in general accept their views are honestly held if mistaken.

On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper’s charter. Scum will be scum.

You ask a member of Parliament on to a news program in the middle of a terrorist disaster. They are not a member of the emergency services, let alone a member of the French emergency services. They will have nothing noteworthy to add to the conversation about what is happening on the ground. They could bleat on about had dreadful it is, but I have eyes and can see that for myself. The only thing they can add to the discussion is what the UK can do to support the French or what we can do to prevent the same thing happening here.

Rightly or wrongly many people feel the security services having access to our online data will help prevent this kind of thing happening. The tin foil hat brigade will think it’s the beginning of the end and as someone who is not high up in the security services I can’t tell you how useful it is either. Either way the ‘snoopers charter’ is hardly an irrelevant discussion topic when interviewing a member of parliament in the midst of a terrorist atrocity. If it offends you I suggest you blame the BBC for their choice of interviewee rather than the interviewees response.

yes I always admire the way you are polite on here to the lefties – I mean typical lefty is just brimming with respect …face palm

You ask a member of Parliament on to a news program in the middle of a terrorist disaster.

If it offends you I suggest you blame the BBC for their choice of interviewee rather than the interviewees response.

I don’t think that the BBC had advance knowledge that the attack was going to be taking place, so they hardly chose the interviewee did they?

I don’t think that the BBC had advance knowledge that the attack was going to be taking place, so they hardly chose the interviewee did they?

In the middle of a terrorist attack it would be perfectly reasonable to bump the guest if they were not appropriate and return to live broadcast of the scene or pull in specialists. Has been done in the past with Newsnight.

I was thinking back to the optimism of 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I doubt many then would have thought things like this would be happening 26 years later.

France and the rest of Europe are going to end up as security states after promoting open border policies for 30 years.

For whatever reason to boost their image, political influence, budget or manpower requirements or just to express their sometimes stupid and pathetic views, tragedies like this bring them all out of the woodwork.Politicians, media types, forum internt warriors and so called experts

But one thing is usually forgotten quite fast, all those who have lost a freind relative,partner or parent, and also those emergency services that need to pick up the pieces in a very professional way, without complaint or being allowed access to the general media to vent their feelings at what they saw, and what they had to do.

RIP, fellow people, many of us are thinking of you and everyone you have left behind.

Hope its not linked in anyway but Gatwick terminal being evacuated

Sussex police dealing with suspicious package 🙁

Are any of them state armies?

The Iraqi and Syrian armies. Supported by Iran, Jordan and Lebanon/Hezbollah.

It’s a reasonable point. If for example there were a couple of similar attacks in the UK and it was shown that better “snooping” powers would have possibly have prevented them where is the balance to be placed between privacy and terrorism prevention?

It is a reasonable point to be made at an appropriate time and place. Not while blood is still being spilled.

I see Farage and his supporters are out in force on social media

I’ve even seen Enoch Powell quotes being banded around

Toads everywhere

People are dead and dying, how people can be thinking of anything else is beyond me

This is what really gripes me.
The state will use this to promote its credentials of protector of the people, meaning even more security intrusions.
But the state is responsible for this mess, not least through a series of utterly stupid foreign policy interventions.
War made the state and the state made war.

The Iraqi and Syrian armies. Supported by Iran, Jordan and Lebanon/Hezbollah.

It is Saudi that needs to join in the support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.

We could also do with the Chilcot report coming out and Blair being done for war crimes…

[Saudi needs to lend] support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.

You have it totally backwards. Your real hardcore jihadi despises the Saudi regime as a bunch of Yank-fellating degenerate sellout scumbags. This is why IS (acolytes) have attacked Saudi targets and why the Saudi state is (ineffectually) training anti-IS forces. Saudi involvement in the fight against IS would not win hearts or minds.

In any case, Saudi Arabia is too busy destroying Yemen to get very Involved in Syria. And do we want the Saudi regime to get involved in solving Islamic militancy around the world? Naah

My thoughts are with the people of France, more particularly the people of Paris and especially those innocents killed and wounded as well as those bereaved by this atrocity.

As many other have said, I find these actions incomprehensible. It is an emotional response on my part but human conduct seems to be regressing, becoming more barbaric and feral.

I’ve had La Marseillaise running around my head all morning and these apposite words in particular:

Allons les enfants de la Patrie … contre nous de la tyrannie … C’est nous qu’on ose méditer … De rendre à l’antique esclavage

Aux armes, citoyens…

I see Newt Gingrich believes the answer is more guns – **** bell-end apologist for the gun lobby/NRA

Newt Gingrich and his call to arm everyone

To be fair to Newt Gingrich, he thinks the answer to absolutely everything, including global warming, which doesn’t actually exist, is ‘more guns’

I’ll give him this… the man’s consistent

On a serious note, as adults we become kind of hardened, and slightly desensitised to this kind of thing, and to some degree it loses its desired impact. We’re still horrified, but are we scared? Probably not really, on a personal level

However… this is the first terrorist atrocity that my 11 year old has been old enough to really comprehend. I’ve just had her really upset, snuggled up to me, saying ‘daddy, I’m scared. This won’t happen here, will it?’

So we’ve sat the 2 of them down over lunch (her sister is 8), and explained to them how its not going to happen here, and that they’re perfectly safe, and they shouldn’t worry. But it makes you realise that its called terrorism for a reason. And it works. Its not just the people it impacts directly. Its the fear and division it spreads though wider society

explained to them how its not going to happen here,

Can you explain that to me as well please?

Just seen on the news someone arrested at Gatwick trying to leave a suspicious package in one of the terminals…
No confirmation as to whether it’s a bomb, it wouldn’t surprise me though

War made the state and the state made war.

So we’re to blame for all of this? Rather simplistic – look around the world and it’s a mess everywhere. Every nation has it’s own ideals – and in various ways we are prepared to fight for them. Would you be prepared to live under Sharia Law, in a state where women are oppressed, gay men and women are killed? I wouldn’t.

I don’t think there is an answer to this – for the next few decades this will be just the way it is. It seems every ‘solution’ has consequences.

blimey that footage from behind the bataclan is hard viewing

explained to them how its not going to happen here,

Can you explain that to me as well please?

Its not that I believe it won’t happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we’re not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

Theres that, and not wanting my daughters scared witless by hysterical tabloid nonsense when statistically they’re about as likely to be the victims of terrorism, as they are from falling grand piano’s

EDIT: She’s jus been in crying gain, saying she’s still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how WE”RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!

🙄

Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

I’m not sure why they go for harder guarded targets like London and Paris – they could go to somewhere like Derby in a few weeks during Xmas shopping, walk into the shopping centre unhindered and cause as many or more casualties.

So what will happen next? The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is “at war” and the noises being made by the Russian Foreign Minister (in Vienna on Monday for talks) seem to be a step in a worrying direction. I feel we have been living between the wars and this pause is now coming to an end.

Its not that I believe it won’t happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we’re not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

Fair enough, in that context that makes sense.

However, if “here” is the UK then I would suggest that an attack in London, or possibly another major city, is very likely.

EDIT: She’s jus been in crying gain, saying she’s still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how WE”RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!

I never said that.

It is terrible news.
What reaction has there been from the uk Muslim community?
I think I would be organising a “Not in the name of Islam ” rally.
Letting the nutters know they are deluded and not supported by their communities must be the first step.

Well the French Muslim Council condemned it pretty clearly and quickly.

I wouldn’t want to be organising any ‘not in my name’ rallies if I was a muslim today..
Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere? The W.I.? The local boys choir?

Islamophobes are despicably ugly and ignorant creatures at the best of times, let alone on a day like today.. I’d be laying low if I was a muslim this arvo

Anyone going to a vigil tonight?

Faith communities, including the Christian-Muslim Forum and the Muslim Council of Britain, have organised a silent vigil at Trafalgar Square at 6:30pm tonight, to remember those who have been killed in Paris. Attendees will be coming to bring tea lights and blue, white and red flowers.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/vigil-in-solidarity-with-the-people-of-paris/

The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is “at war”

Article five?

If the perpetrators can be positively linked to Isis/Syria rather than domestic Islamic extremists supporting Isis then invoking it could really shake things up. There is of course precedent from 9/11 here too.