I don’t believe for a minute anyone does those intervals mind …. Most folk would never get out on their bike as it’d forever be in the shop. Mostly it’s a license to get out of warrenty claims —-although in adverse conditions it is a good idea to adhere .

For me, it ends up being a lower service after 6 months, followed by a full service 6 months later. Otherwise things start to go wrong.

Are you going to apologise Rayban for your insults and personal attacks now I have shown you to be wrong?

I’ll just say it again.  the rockshox technical manual does NOT state to change the seals every service.  A service is a fluid change and inspection of the bushings and seals.  Seals are replaced when worn or damaged.as are bushings.

I asked you several times where you got your information from.  Nothing from you

Are you going to apologise Rayban for your insults and personal attacks now I have shown you to be wrong?

You didn’t, you just quoted Rock Shox stating that it is a wear item and therefore a service item. Repairs indicate damage through misuse, accidents or manufacturing defects.

Although I do apologise for my tone and the way I went about responding to you telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/nmTXcajhehsp4_UsFngmAwKHnW_aSKQWSpD1pEXyWPM/mtime:1523653545/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000005295_service_manual_2018_lyrik_yari_english_rev_d.pdf

Lyrik manual has you replacing damper seals at 200 hours.

I posted the service schedule and it does not include seal replacement.  Seals are only to be replaced if worn or damaged.  thats direct information from the manufacturer.

Ie what I said earlier and you gave me abuse for saying so telling me folk would damage their forks

You cannot admit when you have been shown to be wrong.

is that a current manual or did it come on the ark because it seems at odds with current recomendations.

Seals are to be replaced at 200 hours for the Lyrik – see page 36 – or does a seal head not count as a seal – did you not read my statement saying that your experiences do not translate to the equipment everyone else is using.

You’d be a nightmare in a GMP environment, technical documentation can become slightly contradictory when they get revised repeatedly.

“Dunning Kruger Syndrome” is a bit strong.

Edited to remove possible insult.

Trail rat   2011

rayban – thats the last time I answer you in any form.  I wish the blocking software still works.  You cannot even admit when you are shown to be wrong.  Neither can you read a manual.  Bye.

Neither can you read a manual.  Bye.

LOL. *sigh*

Do I really need to post a screenshot of that Lyrik manual? I guess it could be fake news.

I actually have top end rockshox as I said earlier.

Again with the insults.  why?

Well, calling technically correct opinions “nonsense” and telling others to “Put up or shut up” might elicit a terse response. But toodles TJ. 🙂

indeed maybe in 2011 they didn’t suggest replacement but in 2018 manuals they definitely tell you remove and discard so i assume that means replace as the forks wont work without them

The current service manual for 2018 linked above is pretty clear on part replacement during a 200 hour service (parts are cleaned in the 50 hour service)

<div>Service Procedures</div>
<div>The following procedures should be performed throughout service, unless otherwise specified</div>
<div>
<div>Replace the o-ring or seal with a new one from the service kit. Use your</div>
<div>fingers or a pick to pierce and remove the old seal or o-ring.</div>
<div>
<div>Parts, Tools, and Supplies</div>
<div>Parts</div>
<div>•</div>
<div>RockShox® Lyrik™ or Yari™ 200 Hour Service Kit</div>
<div>
<div>Follow this maintenance schedule and install the service</div>
<div>parts included in each service kit that corresponds with the Service Hours Interval recommendation below.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div>Also repeated throughout the 200 hour serice instructions “remove and discard”</div>
<div></div>

<div>
<div>Remove the top cap o-ring and discard it. Apply grease to a new o-ring</div>
<div>and install it.</div>
<div>Discard the seal head and wave spring.</div>
<div>
<div>Remove the quad ring seal from the air piston and</div>
<div>discard it</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>etc etc</div>
</div>

<div>For Fox forks again clear service parts are to be replaced</div>

<div>Every 125 Hours / Yearly, or whichever comes first</div>
<div>Full fork service (Full internal/external inspection, damper rebuild, air spring rebuild, bath oil and wiper replacement).</div>
<div>
<h1>2018 36 FLOAT NA2 Air Spring Rebuild</h1>
<div class=”chunk lists”>
<div id=”partlist” class=”list”>
<h3>Required Parts</h3>

• 803-01-226 Seal Kit 36 FLOAT NA2 Rebuild

<h1>2016-2018 36mm F-S/P-Se FIT4 3pos w/Adj Damper Cartridge Rebuild</h1>
<div class=”chunk lists”>
<div id=”partlist” class=”list”>
<h3>Required Parts</h3>

• 025-03-010 Oil: AM, FOX Bath Oil [32 oz.], 20 WT Gold
• 025-06-007 Oil: Suspension Fluid [1.00 Quart] R3, 5WT, ISO 15
• 803-00-961 Seal Kit: 36 & 40 FIT4 Cartridge Rebuild

</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div>Again “remove and discard” in the manual

</div>

Quick look at a 2011 Boxxer manual is all about changing o-rings as part of a damper service. Do we know which super-duper high end RS fork TJ has that doesn’t have this as part of the service?

FWIW I am in the clean and change oil camp, however I’d also be fuming if a seal let go shortly after i’d serviced it

Seriously guys, let it go.

We are only talking about bloody bikes here.

Life is too short. Really.

Just skirting round the little thread detour if I may ….

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, which we always read and digest carefully. Some responses to the comments raised.

If a shock tune requires a complete strip and rebuild then the labour and parts involved equate to a service and so are treated as such in the workshop. This is case whether the shock is new or not.

We’ve seen enough poorly built suspension to know that you should never assume that a new, factory fresh fork or shock is automatically fit for purpose. This is why all the suspension we sell gets a thorough checking over before we send it to you. Comments about bushings etc in reports are deliberately there so you can be assured we’ve checked it on your behalf.

In the busy periods we type a lot of reports, so occasionally, as we are only human, we make typos/ mistakes. If you spot something that doesn’t look right – just get in touch. We can always send you an updated version for your records.

If you have questions about our work – please always call us. You could ask random strangers on the internet 🙂 but however lovely they are they won’t have seen your suspension, and we will have!

Cheers,

Ruth @TFT

Well this thread turned into a shower of arse didn’t it.

Get out of thinking about manufacturers service guidance and timescales as designed by engineers. They have an input but so do the bean counters, the liability people, the warranty guys etc, and then they weigh up what they can get away with and what people will acually do. If the old Fox schedule that insisted you stop before the end of a wet 24 hour race and service your forks didn’t tell you that, or all the times a new model comes with “more reliable seals” and shorter service intervals, didn’t tell you that then I don’t know what could… Do all those parts need replaced every time? No. I think the only tme I’ve ever replaced a crush washer was because I lost one.

The thing with suspension is, they sometimes go wrong fast and obvious, but sometimes they go wrong slow and stealthy and most people just won’t notice if they ride 10 hours a week and it takes months to go wrong. So yep it’s pretty reasonable that a service will find a fault. It’s why I like pro servicing- I can do anything bar a nitrogen charge myself but servicing isn’t just changing bits and oil, it’s also spotting things that have gone off and I’ll only see that if it’s really obvious.

But then there’s economics. A really basic, frequent clean and fluid change will generally keep suspension happy for a very long time- whereas the cost of by-the-book servicing adds up very fast. Bangernomics kicks in really fast with bike parts- they hold little value and it can be reasonable to roll the dice and just do the least you can stand to do, and deal with it if it goes wrong.

And that’s another way of saying, don’t take service guides as divine law.As long as you have the ability to make sensible decisions anyway. It’s like your 5 a day.

so some forks state to change some damper seals at a damper service.  this is still not what Rayban was insisting which was that at every service you change all seals including wiper seals.

Wow. Pathetic. 🙄

I do wish some would stay in the general forum to argue about their preferred topics of trump, brexit & the tories.

It was Ruth who called me to discuss my order, brilliant service. Over the literal decade+ that friends and family have dealt with them, they’ve never replaced anything that didn’t need replacing and they have picked up on and sorted out issues that multiple warranties with the manufacturer failed to sort out. I find their product advice refreshingly impartial as well.

I feel inspired to spend a quiet evening changing the oil in my forks!

Over the years I’ve used

– TFT: both with Tim there and post Tim

– Loco: (Simon) who has now moved on I think

– J-Tech

– Sprung (Jake at the FoD)

I don’t remember having one poor experience. More importantly the forks or shock came back in a noticeably better condition than when it was sent. I have a mate who does oil/seals for me, but I still try and send them off every year. Might be false economy but when you’re away for a week riding, it’s good to know the suspension has been serviced fully by a professional.

I use Jake exclusively now as he’s close and I can drop stuff in, have a chat and get some useful face to face advice.

TJ and rayban, step away from the internet, both of you….

I’ve got to agree with TJ here, the only time I’ve had to replace seals has been on forks with damage on the stanchions and/or around the same time as bushings.

Those saying they do  it themselves are probably doing just a lower lube chscha and seals

Depends on the fork – the one point I’d disagree with TJ on is replacing bushes on Marzocchis being not a DIY job. If you buy the seal fitting tools it’s quite possible to DIY it on Marzocchis – although I believe it’s a more involved affair on Rockshox possibly requiring more specialist tools.

And, well, OK I’ve not done the travel adjust bleed on my Marzocchis cos I can’t find the bleed tool online, and I haven’t sent them off cos it’d be too much hassle/time without the bike! (They’re stuck on full travel, so not the end of the world). Apart from that though none of my forks have needed anything more doing. I probably should use someone else to do the more complicated stuff cos it takes ages the first time (have had a Reverb fully stripped, took a while and there are 2 parts that require a knack to do, so took me a good while -won’t take me so long next time though).

 A really basic, frequent clean and fluid change will generally keep suspension happy for a very long time- whereas the cost of by-the-book servicing adds up very fast. Bangernomics kicks in really fast with bike parts- they hold little value and it can be reasonable to roll the dice and just do the least you can stand to do, and deal with it if it goes wrong.

I kind of agree here too, as long as you do something – I’ve seen too many bikes with really sticky unlubricated forks from just not bothering to service, it makes me totally not trust anyone that bangs on about their great new set of forks being great compared to the old ones.

The thing is with wiper seals, you probably cant tell if they are past their best and starting to degrade visually, so as a precaution you replace them. By the time they are past their best it could be too late and crap starts to enter and damage the forks.

I tend to take the pragmatic view that whilst not necessary, its prudent to change them every other oil change, if nothing else it only adds a couple more minutes to change them out whilst you’ve got them apart anyway.

Treat them a bit like car servicing where you have minor and major services. You wouldn’t necessarily change the fuel filter every minor service, only at major services.

Oh re. TFT I’ve used them for parts and they’ve been spot on, quick to respond and the people there genuinely know what they’re on about.

The guy complaining earlier in the thread – you really should have gone back to them to get it sorted, it sounds like a pain but I would be surprised if they didn’t sort you out even if you had only discussed it on the phone with them – makes sense to write stuff down to avoid these errors for future, but it’s easy not to. Mainly this will stop people popping up on threads like this questioning their good name. As I said, they should have got it right, but everywhere makes mistakes and a one off can be rectified.

I used to use Loco and he was brilliant, sorted stuff and went out of his way.

I now use Rick at Slick & Slide who is even more helpful (if possible) and has gone well out of his way to sort stuff for me at the drop of a hat. I’ll therefore be going nowhere else for the foreseeable.

On a slightly related note, how easy is changing the wiper seal without the right tools on a newer Pike?

Seals pop out with a big screwdriver or tyre lever, not difficult

For refitting, a 35mm Unior Seal toolf for about a tenner is a great thing to have. Slot the new seal onto the tool, sit tool into the lowers/bushing, and tap it home. Goes in straight, nothing gets folded or damaged.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xunior+seal+tool.TRS0&_nkw=unior+seal+tool&_sacat=0

There is a serious amount of sexual tension between Rayban and TJ.