Scottish politics thread

The results of every election since 1979.

I’m assuming this includes the election of 1997 where New Labour & the Lib Dems got 66 seats between them & the SNP got 6?

Yes. How many Tories were elected in Scotland that year?

I’m assuming this includes the election of 1997 where New Labour & the Lib Dems got 66 seats between them & the SNP got 6?

You mean the one where the Tories got 165 seats in England and 0 in Scotland?

Missing one thing…

Once indy happens no snp? So then what? They’re a coalition of folk who only agree on one thing….

Brexit wise some of the jingoistic name calling and bickering from both sides is depressingly family.

Loads of risks. No benefits confirmed is my take on it. Its all could and we can…

Im sure if the uk from stoke up asked for a devolution it’d be popular.

Thanks for bringing it back to a discussion Brucewee.

You mean the one where the Tories got 165 seats in England and 0 in Scotland?

Yes, the one where a Labour Party widely decried for following a neo-liberal agenda won a landslide.

Thanks for the info on the land reform act @scotroutes. I’d forgotten the role that F&M played.

“Someone looking in with fresh eyes might do a better job of explaining to an audience unfamiliar with all of the detail than assuming any sort of previous knowledge.”

I could have lived with that but I am thinking of incidents where a London man Nick Robinson was given a slot on Reporting Scotland, to explain how the indyref was going when Brian Taylor was  present ,actually visible in the shot.

The result was  Robinson did the same piece as he had just done on the national news, probably a good piece for the rest of the UK but patronising and lacking insight for a Scottish audience

@roverpig – I was doing a lot of home working during the LRA debates and would have it playing in the background when I could. It’s the only time I’ve listened to a bill being debated in full.

Yes, the one where a Labour Party widely decried for following a neo-liberal agenda won a landslide.

Yes, I’d argue Labour was the main cause of the increase in support for independence, not the Tories.

Putting up with the Tories was acceptable when there was an alternative.  Once it became clear the choices were Tory or Tory-lite support for independence exploded.

Once indy happens no snp? So then what? They’re a coalition of folk who only agree on one thing….

This is my argument whenever someone starts saying how much they hate the SNP.  If you start supporting indy then once that’s achieved the SNP will split into 3 parties.  At least.

imo that would be a good thing.

@scotroutes – Twenty years on and I still think it’s the most amazing piece of legislation. So simple, so obvious, but so hard to imagine south of the border.

“ What makes you think Scotland would be any different to a neo liberal England?”

Well there is the minor point that Scotland has a very clear progressive majority held back from doing much by the Westminster govt whereas the political scene south of the border is dominated by a rump of racist isolationist Little Englanders who don’t actually want anything to change, unless it’s for the worst.

@brucewee

Yep it gets rid off them.

But who and what then?

But who and what then?

Dunno, do you want the job?

Scotland on the other hand is a tiny country who’s economy doesn’t even match many UK regions

Edinburgh on its own is estimated to have a higher GDP than a whole list of independent European states. Would Scotland’s size necessitate working closely with other countries if it was independent? Absolutely. Being dwarfed economically and by population size by rUK would cause issues, for sure… but it does now.

But who and what then?

If you want speculation…

SNP splits. A rump remains. Some float off to Labour, some to Greens, some to Conservatives, maybe some to LibDems. There would be some movement both ways though, as once self-government was in place the similarities between much of the SNP and much of Labour would disappear. That leaves five parties, each with slighly different agendas. I could imagine some would try to set up a party of the Highlands, or the Highlands and Islands, perhaps incorporating the Orkney and Shetlands LibDem bloc.

It looks like we are seeing the end of the SNP for now without the hassle of Independence.

Im sure if the uk from stoke up asked for a devolution it’d be popular.

It was an absolute stinker of an idea 20 years ago and I don’t see people in the North of England being any more enthusiastic about it now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_North_East_England_devolution_referendum

It looks like we are seeing the end of the SNP for now without the hassle of Independence.

Could be.

If it happens I don’t think it would be a bad thing.  Support for independence seems to have decoupled from support for the SNP.

It would make sense to have the independence movement separated from individual political parties.

Fair point bruce

Obviously it’s a bit smug to quote yourself, but seeing as Labour managed to call a VoNC and then lose it today…

If anyone can find a way to squander this opportunity, it’s Labour.

They’ll not be terribly disappointed it’s easier to win a UK general election while they are in opposition in Holyrood. They can point out woes of the struggling SNP minority government, rather than being a minority government themselves struggling to get their own prògram through

I’m not sure Anas Sarwar is the guy I want to lead my “kick out the SNP for its cliqueishness and opaque financial dealings” campaign.

In related news, Ash Regan voted with Labour, the Lib-Dems, and Tories.  Apparently, ‘The vote was purely performative and in many ways irrelevant.”

Yes, it’s the vote that is purely performative and in many ways irrelevant.

wish I could have been a fly on the wall for Swinney’s meeting with Forbes – “I don’t want it” “me neither it’s a poison chalice” “I was looking to retire” “I’ve got a wean at home, I got a battering last time” , “nothing compared to the shit I took when Eck was having a rest, who else could do it”, “Jenny?” “Naw, Kezia will no let her”, “**** we need to be careful, we might get Neil Gray here”

In related news, Ash Regan voted with Labour, the Lib-Dems, and Tories.

TBF, she’s not part of the government and actually left because of some of their policies. She’d have been called hypocritical if she’d voted with the SNP and Greens.

Yeah, it’s more Alba’s personal journey of discovery this week. From swaggering around with the list of demands thinking they were kingmakers, to the crashing realisation when it became clear Yousaf was quitting, and now a ‘performative and in many ways irrelevant’ vote where she was the sole indy MSP to side with the unionist MSPs.

I’d give her and Alba a solid 2/10 for this week’s performance review.

But who knows, perhaps others thought they played a blinder.

and now a ‘performative and in many ways irrelevant’ vote where she was the sole indy MSP to side with the unionist MSPs.

in some ways she did exactly what “WE” all want “THEM” to do – vote with their heart/head not simply sticking with the ideas of who is good/bad over Indy/unionism.  If you are an Indyfan who doesn’t like the Greens, Alba are indicating there may be alternative ways to build consensus.  I expected her to abstain – as a symbol that she was open to persuasion by either side and reinforce her kingmaker potential, I’m guessing she wasn’t happy to have been rebuffed in Yousaf’s speech.

Realistically SNP are going to do very little about Indy in the remainder of this parliamentary term, she has her performative and in many ways irrelevant referendum on referendums bill and got it more attention – and Alba more attention this week than she’s managed in the last year.  Alex will be delighted with the attention.

Alex will be delighted with the attention.

True.  I got the impression she thought Yousaf was going to take her seriously and was shocked when he didn’t.  I guess the constant complaints that the tail was wagging the dog when it came to the Greens didn’t register as she thought a single MSP who wasn’t elected as a member of the party she represents should be able to set the agenda for the entire Scottish government.

People say she doesn’t come across well in media.  Personally, I just don’t think she’s very bright.

Salmond was just happy to be on TV again.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/24283999.salmond-kuenssberg-show-alba-msp-ash-regan/

Swinneys going for it i see…

Support for Independence declines heavily if the Euro is proposed as a currency (down to something like 35% if memory serves)

That’s mainly because +99% of folk have never experienced a change of currency in a country – I have, living in Germany when they went to the Euro.  For the ‘man in the street’, no big deal – they still spent what they were paid in.

I’m not convinced that Freeports are a great idea,

Freeports; loved by criminals, disingenuous politicians and gullible voters everywhere.

Did I miss the comments from you Unionists accepting that the UK borrows £120b per year?

Prestwick was a freeport for 30 years – they’re nothing new.

Swinneys going for it i see…

I would assume that means he has reached some kind of agreement with Forbes.

I think the right of the party has been getting ignored for a long time (not that I’ve been unhappy with that) but it doesn’t exactly do much for making the SNP a broad church.  If he does do a deal to keep the right happy then it’s just kicking the can down the road but maybe that’s the plan.

Or I could be wrong and we’ll get a proper leadership contest that’ll widen the gaps in the party.

I’m actually fine with it, either way.

they still spent what they were paid in.

Oh sure, personally I don’t think it matters at all, and I think most people would get used to it in no time,  but folks care about this stuff, and too many changes too quickly can have a chilling effect, as the polls show.

ChrisL Full Member

Forbes would signify that the SNP might move away from being a generally left-of-centre/social democrat type party.

scotroutes Full Member

What evidence is there of that? I mean, I’m not convinced that Freeports are a great idea, and she has certainly supported them in the past, but she’s not currently in Cabinet and they seem to be going ahead anyway.

It is merely the impression I got. The coverage I saw of the leadership contest last year seemed to portray her as more socially conservative and “pro-business” than Sturgeon or Yousaf. If the SNP were to elect her as leader I’d expect its general direction to move to be more in-line with her apparent preferences, which overall seem to be to the right of where the party has been recently.

That was quick.

Listening to Radio Scotland, one minute someone was talking about bunions, the next Swinney has announced he’s running.

Made a big point of reaching out to Kate Forbes in his speech.

“That’s mainly because +99% of folk have never experienced a change of currency in a country”

That’s one of those weird arguments that the right put forward seemingly forgetting that decimalization was effectively changing the currency. So our currency is only 50ish years old.

It would actually be easier to go to the euro than from LSD to £p

Once indy happens no snp? So then what?

Independence isnt about the snp, its about becoming an independent country. So far as im concerned they can do whatever they want. They can disband, reform under a different name or stay as they are. It’s not really about them.

.

After that we can see what we can do about getting rid of the so called ‘Scottish Conservative party’ as they pretty much defer to the main party down south.

Personally I hope it involves a trebuchet 😀

I believe the so called “Scottish” conservative party might become an actual Scottish conservative party  and could eventually establish it’s own “constituency” amongst the Scottish public. Without any connection to unionism.

It’s always been a disappointment to me that the main three Westminster parties didn’t actually set up separate Scottish parties, instead opting to retain all control at the UK level. For Labour in particular, the so-called Party of Devolution, I think this indicates a lack of belief in the very concept. Of course, I’d expect lots of alignment, but contrast it to the situation in Northern Island where a similar situation exists and the NI parties still use it for the benefit of their constituents. Wasn’t Murdo Fraser, for all his faults, once in favour of true devolution of the Scottish Conservatives?