@Scotroutes He was, at least in 2009 he was…may have changed since

Wasn’t Murdo Fraser, for all his faults, once in favour of true devolution of the Scottish Conservatives?

From what I remember that was the key differentiator between him and Ruth Davidson in the 2011 leadership contest, with Davidson making it clear she was very much against a split.

Wonder if she still feels the same…

It’ll be a while until we even get the argument for independence, and the world has changed a fair bit since 2014, not a lot of it positive unfortunately.

First thing is to firm up the SNP and the government, then show progress, after that there needs to be clear focus on the benefits, biggest issue for me just now is the SNP is bereft of leadership potential, they have lots who want power, but have no track record or ability to have a decent public image.

Forbes is out so it looks like the good ship SNP will continue on it’s way for a while longer.

Swinney says he is going to be different, we’ll have to wait and see. We’ll also have to see what role Forbes takes from here on. Assuming she accepts any roll. That is speaking as an SNP member.

“Forbes is out so it looks like the good ship SNP will continue on it’s way for a while longer.”

Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
The SNP have been doing that, mostly. The Gender Bill, as mentioned way back on this thread, was political, the general public were not at all bothered about it, and they then started asking why is time being spent on this, when there are far more important things to be done?
Get back to basics, do them right, then, when there is time, and public will, go for the less important, or, the bigger things like Independence. The SNP have to show they can be trusted in Government before they can get anywhere near to thinking about Independence again, I’d say at least another 10 years, probably longer, as there will be a coalition for the next 7 or so years if things stay as they are now with the polls, with the other Parties unlikely to vote for Independence.

It’s always been a disappointment to me that the main three Westminster parties didn’t actually set up separate Scottish parties, instead opting to retain all control at the UK level. For Labour in particular, the so-called Party of Devolution, I think this indicates a lack of belief in the very concept.

I agree.  I also think the Lib Dem’s miss a massive trick to be seen as the party of “compromise and common sense” by loudly arguing for federalism to make the U.K. work, rather than jumping on the unionist coat tails.

Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.

And will be acceptable to the Scottish Greens, unlike Humza Yousaf and Kate Forbes. Pragmatic choice.

London man Nick Robinson was given a slot on Reporting Scotland

Be glad that the process was calm enough that they didn’t send Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie (long retired, I know)

Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.

When things are going well, it would make sense, but with things going downhill just now, is it going to help them in upcoming elections with all the talk of ‘continuity candidate’, Swinney has been around for a long time and has been through resignations, votes of no confidence and intrinsically linked to the old SNP brigade like Salmond, Sturgeon, Ewing’s, etc, it almost feels like the SNP are bereft of ideas or leadership potential, even Forbes just not going for it feels like she’s just not wanting to risk failure, rather just wait for Swinney to fail and take over then.

Only good thing is at least it stops the Stephen Flynn rumours, never thought i’d miss Blackford, i know he was lightweight in some aspects, but he knew the game well and could talk well.

“Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie” Either one would have been better

Interesting contrast between this thread where Humza is seen as too boat-rocking and the Labour thread where Starmer is seen as too timid!

I wouldnt say too boat rockng but when he tipped the boat over he fell out

Viewed from my little corner of the country, I wonder if Yousaf has (accidentally) played a blinder. With a couple of years to the 2026 elections, the SNP might be able to distance itself from the failures of DRS, HPMA and mandatory ASHPs and even get some spades in the ground on the A9 and A96. All of these failures could be laid at the feet of the Scottish Greens. 😂

If they can do that and start work on a new Belford Hospital and work on the A82 between Fort William and Inverness, both projects in Kate Forbes constituency I would be very happy and extremely surprised

Belford and a whole bunch of other major nhs projects were binned recently as well as a massive reduction in social housing (2/3rd cut or thereabouts) so I wouldn’t expect anything for a few years (and the repercussions of those cancellations will soon start hitting the economy)

Sorry Munkyboy Should have said I live in Fort William there’s a touch of cynicism in my post people have been waiting on the new Belford since my son was born (in the Belford)34 years ago

The most recent budget has examples of delaying capital projects like the new small ferries as there was no cash. Save X£££ by deferring the start until another financial year. I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc. won’t hold my breath for the next 2 or 3 years though.

“Our modelling indicates that our resource spending requirements could exceed our central funding projections by 2% (£1 billion) in 2024- 25 rising to 4% (£1.9 billion) in 2027-28.”

Weekly Update: What did we learn from the Scottish Government’s Medium Term Financial Strategy?

I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc.

A great weekend for you then. Tenders for Tomatin-Moy are already being appraised.

That is good news.  Three years after they failed to get a. acceptable contract in 2021.  If the new schedule is met it will have taken over  20 years.

Highland highway: Upgrade of the A9 from Perth to Inverness

So John Swinney as the lame duck/caretaker First Minister and SNP Leader up to the next election campaign, and then handing over to Kate Forbes who gets to warm up as Deputy First Minister? Or does having Forbes inside the tent mean that she is under greater control?

Neither one is very inspiring.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/kate-forbes-john-swinney-has-essentially-named-kate-forbes-his-successor-in-first-act-in-bute-house-4620674

Neither one is very inspiring.

Perhaps not but still a damn site better than Tory/labour.

Yesterday’s man and Sunday’s woman…

John Swinney has axed the post of  Minister for Independence  

“John Swinney has axed the post of Minister for Independence “

Hardly surprising, as a new referendum will be at least 10 years away, and he knows it, and has just admitted it. Apparently we are in for a lot of spending cuts, as inflation has eaten away the money pot.

No magic money tree.

“The SNP faced a similar dilemma last year, when John Swinney warned a lack of extra cash for pay rises, through the Barnett formula used to determine devolved budgets, would mean “deep cuts to public services”.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/13/scotland-facing-savage-budget-cuts-to-pay-for-snp-pay-rises/

Typical Torygraph neglecting to mention in it’s headline that the pay rises were for junior doctors and teachers

Great…so we’ve got the same cabinet (plus Forbes, minus Yousef) that was failing on ferries, climate change targets, school standards, crime, health etc.

I actually quite like Swinney, strikes me as a decent and well-meaning man.

But we really need a general and Scottish parliament election to shake things up. Tories and SNP have been in power too long.

But we really need a general and Scottish parliament election to shake things up. Tories and SNP have been in power too long.

who do you think would make up the Scottish cabinet if there was an election in June?

Hardly surprising, as a new referendum will be at least 10 years away, and he knows it, and has just admitted it.

But he also said that independence could be delivered in 5 years…? Is he shoving it on the back burner or not? Or does he mean “if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029”?

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/scotland-could-be-independent-in-five-years-swinney-claims

But he also said that independence could be delivered in 5 years…? Is he shoving it on the back burner or not? Or does he mean “if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029”?

He is obliged to say it as that’s what an SNP leader is supposed to say.

He knows there’s not a chance it’ll happen (as we all do), but as he’ll only be leader till Kate takes over in a year or two he can say what he likes and it doesn’t matter.

till Kate takes over in a year or two

I hope not.

Or does he mean “if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029”?

I thought that was what he was getting at. However, I don’t think he has a plan for the first step, or for how to move the pro-indy vote firmly past the 45% or so where it has more-or-less stabilised.

If Nicola couldn’t move the indy vote past 45% with Brexit and  Boris and her own daily TV spot for months during Covid I would be amazed if it goes  up with a UK Labour govt.   Especially with Branchform continuing it’s glacial progress popping up every so often with reminders of the  Murrell years.

The problem with Nicola Sturgeon is that she kept repeating the now is not the time line. I think that had the effect of discouraging many indy supporters (based on mine and friends reactions). An actual indy campaign might move that dial a bit. I don’t know. It’s certain that there are many indy folk outwith the SNP fold these days, based on their previous couple of leaders.

Some folk think that having Labour in at Westminster will make indy seem less urgent/attractive. That might depend on what sort of Labour government we end up with though. The more SKS paints himself as Tory-lite, the less attractive he might be to the floating voters (but then we’re overlapping with the SKS! thread 😂)

I don’t think i’ve seen a serious push for any indy vote in the last few years, yes some push after Brexit as it was an opportunity, but that’s past now, and there is a lot of unknowns just now, the economy, instability in the EU, conflicts around the world, failures in Scotland, SNP issues and so on, it’s not a good time to be pushing for an Indy vote, 5 years isn’t long enough either i think, i think there’ll be some big decisions taken by the UK and EU in the next 5 years due to Russia.

There’s not much chance of an indy referendum in 5 years  and the govt does need to focus on the basics but now is not the time to  for pressure groups or individuals to stop talking about independence either. There is no guarantee that the UK will be in a better situation in five years or ten. Look how many torie arrivistes have joined the Labour party under Starmer it bears a certain similarity to UKip’s slow domination of the Conservative party. With the world being volatile at the moment and showing no signs of getting less so, you would be daft to rule anything out.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,rishi-sunak-singles-out-scottish-nationalists-as-he-warns-of-threats-to-uk-in-major-speech

Rishi Sunak has listed Scottish Nationalists as a threat to the UK ,  that  must be the best news the independence movement has had for a long while .  It certainly won’t help the Scottish Tories

But nationalists are a threat to the UK. They want to break it up

I think that’s the very point @gordimhor was making. Many Indy supporters will be encouraged by Sunaks speech.

TBH we don’t want to “tear the UK apart” we just want to govern ourselves, that involves leaving the UK it’s a necessary step that’s all.
However we must be pretty scary if he’s likening us to Russia.