And how many grouse moors are there in sunny Fife? The one case of a sea eagle death in Fife I found had injuries consistent with a fight with a wind turbine.

Once again..when i spoke to him yesterday there was no gun anywhere to be seen!!! The only mention of a gun I made was that I jokingly said I hope he didn’t have one! Even if he did, as long as he doesn’t point it at me then no issue.. it’s a tool of his job I assume.

Have a word with yourselves, the op never mentioned a gun. It’s like readers of the Mail talking about immigrants.

I was responding to other posts mentioning a gun, not the OP, but I’ll be sure to ask your permission next time. Sorry.

And thanks for the contact details. Ill get in contract.

Steven – One sea eagle killed in a windfarm. another “disappeared” on a grouse moor. 3 proven incidents of raptor persecution in fife in 2018. Latest data.

Edit – 2012 – 2018

They’ll be fattening up the pheasants. It’s easier for the estate staff if the feeders are near the access tracks. Folk passing could disturb the birds, chasing them off so they spend less time eating.

I don’t agree with the whole bird shooting thing but there’s no need to be paranoid about what’s going on.

Good point scotroutes. Still no reason to stop access tho. I guess following the raptor persecution stuff makes one a bit suspicious given the data we have that proves that vast majority of shooting estates persecute raptors. 100+ proven cases every year 70% of them on shooting estates

Houns

Member
Soon as this barbaric ‘sport’ is banned the better, it has ruined our countryside.

How do you reckon that then Houns? If it wasn’t for grouse shooting for example, heather moorland would be left to the sheep and over grazed, impacting biodiversity and threatening this delicate ecosystem. The UK has about 75% of the world’s heather moorland. You reckon landowners are going to spend vast sums of money to preserve it just cos it looks nice? Nope, they’ll put sheep on it, the white grass will take over and the heather will be gone.

Likewise, shooting on lowland estates means wider field margins, more hedges and woodlands as cover for the birds, with obvious benefits to other wildlife.

So shooting has a huge impact on how our countryside looks and not in a detrimental way – regardless on you views of how barbaric the activity itself is.

Red T was the one who died due to the wind turbine somewhere in the Ochils, there was one spotted in Methil that must have been scary for the Eagle. Quite a few Perthshire poisoning of birds not sure if anyone goes to jail though

dashed – yes the whole question is multifactorial but that driven grouse moors are detrimental to biodiversity and that raptor persecuting is normal in the “industry” then its indefensible. Both things are proven.

Lowland pheasant and other bird shooting causes less harm and deer shooting can be fine with biodivesity or can lead to green deserts.

If you think grouse shooting is good for the countryside just look at the lammermuirs

How do you reckon that then Houns? If it wasn’t for grouse shooting for example, heather moorland would be left to the sheep and over grazed, impacting biodiversity and threatening this delicate ecosystem. The UK has about 75% of the world’s heather moorland. You reckon landowners are going to spend vast sums of money to preserve it just cos it looks nice? Nope, they’ll put sheep on it, the white grass will take over and the heather will be gone.

Likewise, shooting on lowland estates means wider field margins, more hedges and woodlands as cover for the birds, with obvious benefits to other wildlife.

So shooting has a huge impact on how our countryside looks and not in a detrimental way – regardless on you views of how barbaric the activity itself is

Why would you want to preserve heather moorland? There is no biodiversity on a heather moorland whether it is overgrazed or not. It is not a natural condition for the land to be in, it is entirely the product of human beings destroying the woodlands that would once have covered the hills. The single best thing that could be done for the environment in this country would to let the moors scrub over and then return to woodland.

Some heather would survive of course – and it would be able to grow to its full height which is almost never seen nowadays. In “Kidnapped” the hero hides in the heather. You cannot do that now

jamz

Why would you want to preserve heather moorland?

Indeed. And it’s amazing how many traces of substantial human occupation still exist on that land from before it was turned to a desert.

Shooting estates protecting the environment? Aye, right…

Fine biodiversity on a grouse moor.

https://goo.gl/maps/qd4PLuYa11ewXu3s5

There is no biodiversity on a heather moorland

UWOTM8?

Look at my link above. Grouse moors are monoculture and green deserts. The landowners kill any predators moving in and all trees and bushes are burnt off and killed. What do you think would be naturally in the lammermuirs ( my pic above)

Go on then – something to counter that view

Some nice peer reviewed stuff on how well raptors do on grouse moors? How about mustelids? No? How about mountain hares? Infact how about any mammals at all?

Its beyond doubt that grouse moors damage biodiversity. It can be nothing less as its such an impoverished environment with no habitat diversity.

Oh I have done which is why I know about the poor biodiversity on grouse moors.

I mentioned the gun and also said if you feel threatened. I’ve had fox hunt people sit across my path on a quad with rifle in lap.

I’ll say again I very specifically said if you feel threatened.

So reporting that not a dickmove in my opinion.

Why would you want to preserve heather moorland? There is no biodiversity on a heather moorland whether it is overgrazed or not. It is not a natural condition for the land to be in, it is entirely the product of human beings destroying the woodlands that would once have covered the hills.

Sure about that?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17550870802260624

Yes – we do know that – partly because if you stop the heather burning and the overgrazing the trees return and partly because all the bogs are full of tree stumps that are the remains of forests from a few hundred years ago

I’d love those who think burnt heather monoculture is good habitat and that grouse moors are good for wildlife – I’d like you to justify the annual slaughter of mountain hares – an endangered species but killed in the tens of thousands every year because they compete with grouse for food

go on justify this

https://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/revealed-the-extent-of-mountain-hare-slaughter-in-scotland

Do they get eaten?

Slight tangent, but Im baffled as to why there’s game keepers in the 21st century.

There’s 50,000 vacancies in the road haulage industry. Surely the gamekeepers could find more productive employment in that sector?

The landowners would be better off growing things like hemp or bamboo.

We’re entering an age in which most of our everyday ‘stuff’, bikes, furniture, household appliances etc, will be 3-d printed from hemp resin.

The landowners could go to university and equip themselves with a relevant skill set for the challenges which the planet faces.

The hemp plants would also be an ample source of bird-seed, thus keeping the grouse-fans happy.

And that’s Saturday. Phew!

5th – no – they are dumped and burnt.

There’s 50,000 vacancies in the road haulage industry. Surely the gamekeepers could find more productive employment in that sector?

Aye, get away from those cold, windy hills, and into a nice warm truck. Bet they’ve never thought of it! 😂

**** that!

5th – no – they are dumped and burnt.

Well, some of them will end up in a stink pit to attract raptors and other “pests” so they can be snared or shot.

5th – no – they are dumped and burnt.

That’s shitty.

go on justify this

Have you seen how many young trees hares eat? Particularly in the absence of grazing pressure from other herbivores. Hence why SNH issues licences to cull thousands during the breeding season

https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/thousands-of-hares-culled-to-save-trees-1-4284579

You do realise that is simply a press release?

Usual nonsense from the hunting shooting criminals

They are not slaughtering hares so trees can regenerate. They slaughter them on grouse moors where trees cannot grow because of the burning

Hares are not culled in areas where reforestation is happening

Local shooting estate gives away 200+ birds after each shoot. They cannot cope with the numbers of birds slaughtered. It got to the point that the butcher was charging 25p per brace to take them.
Fat blokes in tweed roll up stand still and shoot at the sky while drinking.
They now roost the birds on one side of where the birds will be and feed them on the other so when flushed they head for “home”.

Sorry, SNH have confirmed via FOI that all their out of season mountain hare licences were for tree protection

Local shooting estate gives away 200+ birds after each shoot. They cannot cope with the numbers of birds slaughtered. It got to the point that the butcher was charging 25p per brace to take them.

Have you got freezers full of them?

Most of those hares killed under licence for “tree protection” were on shooting estates.

You mean the exact places they have been trying to regenerate woodlands? (Eg. Glenfeshie is still classed as a shooting estate)

How many hares have been killed on Glenfeshie?

I don’t have the data (licences anonymised) but TJ asked for justification for killing hares, and everyone accepts that, just like deer, mountain hares eat trees, so there you go.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378112702003110

Much of the problem is a lack of predators. Foxes, weasels, stoats, wild cats, eagles etc would control the numbers of hares. Except they are persecuted by gamekeepers.

Glenfeshie have not killed any hares under licence, the woodland is regenerating fine there.

All comes down to money (Much like the rest of society, really). Anything that eats into profits of the big estates will be exterminated. Same as farming, it’s a business decision. If there’s a legal way to do that (‘tree protection’🙄) then they’ll use that. But don’t be under any illusion that the landowners particularly care about trees, other than as a nice backdrop to encourage the guns to spend their money.