However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo’s

Aye, but as Mike suggests, bikes are often ride greater or less than the sum of their numbers. I know a few folks that are obsessed by geo, suspension curves, pivot design etc. In general, they can’t ride anywhere near as well as their words suggest they do. Definitely less than the sum of their opinions. 🙂

In general, they can’t ride anywhere near as well as their  expensive santa cruz bikes suggest they do

sorry i had to  🙂

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership, but it would have been childish to bring it up unprompted.

😀

However, technical climbing just didn’t do it for me. The positive response under power, the surge if speed when peddling that others talk about just felt like the suspension extending and hooking up behind square edges to me.

This is exactly how it felt to me when I tested a MK1 Bronson.  I also prefer DW bikes.  However, VPP has had a few iterations now so I’d be willing to demo again to see if anything has changed.

The warranty and customer service reputation of SantaCruz is definitely a draw for me.  Having had out of warranty (at just over 4 years) frame problems with 2 frames, I think I’ll be prioritising a longer/lifetime frame warranty period next time.

In general, they can’t ride anywhere near as well as their  expensive santa cruz bikes suggest they do

None of them ride Santa Cruz though, as they all cite the same ‘conservative’ numbers as suggested on this! Then you see them on youtube and think, **** me, is that slowed down? 🙂

2 guys in particular I ride with ride Nomads, both rapid, both couldn’t tell you what the numbers on their bike mean, never mind suspension curves!…

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership

As there is with all the best products in any sport, the world over.

I run a V2 Bronson C and I’m looking at getting a newer one soon. I always said I’d never get a carbon framed bike in case I stacked it and then you cannot see the damage inside compared to a good honest dent in an alloy frame but the ride is so good I’m past caring what happens to it. It’s incredibly quiet, which if you’ve ridden carbon bikes which resonate, is a huge bonus. You really think your on a alloy frame. The geometry is spot on and the reason you see so many is because they are good. I remember many years ago at the beginning of the trail centre revolution seeing lots and lots of Turner 5 Spots and I wondered why until I bought one and loved it.

I did the DW thing with the newer 5 Spot and I’ve owned other VPP bikes in the past and there’s very very little to chose between them and each has it’s strength and weakness and both are very very good. As for Jungle and their help you cannot fault it and so if your thinking of getting one go for it and you won’t be disappointed.

i did a local mountain bike challenge on my Lefty F29er last year (1100m of climbing 26 mile with quite a bit of link up road), i was very happy with the ride, it climbs like a beast

this year on my 3rd ride out on my 5010 with the suspension open on the offroad climbs and locked out on some longer road climbs, i took nearly 20 mins off my time, maybe it was a few degrees cooler, but both days were dry and my fitness similiar.

thats not bad for a bike that weighs at least 2kg more..

its slower on the road but offroad uphill i was amazed how it ate the climbs

Still not sure why they did a single pivot, vpp is so very <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>different.and</span> better.

because the company they bought it off hadn’t invented it yet ??

Lifetime bearings is good but isn’t that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Lifetime bearings is good but isn’t that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Lifetime came in about 12/13 I think?

My 12 Blur LTc needed 2 bearings in 6 years, they still had factory grease inside the links there as they were that well sealed.

From the people I know who have had them since then bearings are hardly mentioned.

Over hyped would be the more appropriate description.

From the people I know who have had them since then bearings are hardly mentioned.

I definitely remember lots of people complaining about it at one point in their history

Reassuringly expensive.

See also, Apple, Volkswagen, Festool and Stella etc. 😊

I had an original Heckler. Noodly flex machine it was. I suspect the newer ones are much better but they’re not aimed at my budget.

They’re nice looking bikes but it’s highly doubtful that they’re better than bikes that can be had much cheaper.

Seems to be a lot of talk about great warranty in previous posts. All good, but it would be nicer not to need it. I’ve never warrantied a bike, but have friends who have on other ‘high-end’ brands.

Lifetime bearings is good but isn’t that because they had an awful reputation at one point for eating through bearings ?

Dunno, before my time.

Yeti SB66, now that was bearing funtastic! 120 quid a set, and I could just about nurse them through 6 months per set. Brilliant bike to ride though, to be fair.

Seems to be a lot of talk about great warranty in previous posts. All good, but it would be nicer not to need it. I’ve never warrantied a bike, but have friends who have on other ‘high-end’ brands.

Considering how tough MTBing is on bikes, I’d far rather have a good warranty than wait for some pie in the sky brand that never breaks. Ain’t gonna happen.

Stella

you mean mcartney right

Having come from a long line of Orange full suss bikes I demo’d a Tallboy LTc back in 2014. I was really disappointed to be honest as I expected it to feel super plush and whippet quick coming from my heavy and single pivot 5 29. It felt clumsy and nothing special at all. Saying that, the build wasn’t the best and the 5 RS I tested at the same time had Pikes, which I hadn’t tried before so it could have been a lot to do with the fork/shock on each.

Still on Orange now but wouldn’t rule out demoing another though as I expect things have moved on.

A mate has the previous 5010. I would kill for it.

We hired a couple in Moab. Very impressive bikes. Just seemed to handle everything despite a lack of skill in the cockpit. Had a quick look online at prices and they didn’t seem that crazy. Don’t think I’ll be getting one for christmas though.

I’ve had 2 Blur TRcs (26″) each for a year, and had a 5010/Solo for 3 years (v1) so been riding a very similar bike for 5 years.

The suspension goes up and down, it’s not the plushest as it stiffens under power and you get a bit of pedal kickback, but that means it accelerates quickly, horses for corses, you need a good rear shock to get the most out of them, I’ve had a Pushed Fox Float and now a DVO Topaz and those were both a big improvement on the stock RP23.

I change the bearings once a year, yes you can get more life out of them, but if you take the links apart and check the bearings you will notice they’re getting rough. Changing them and cleaning everything PROPERLY takes 1-2 hours, or if you’re a money bags pay a shop to do it.

I wouldn’t buy one again, there’s 8 bearings and 4 axles. When everything is done up righ and there’s no play they’re great, but if you feel a little bit of play in the linkage it can sometimes be hard to track down if it’s a worn bushing, a worn bearing, or a loose axle. It is worth pointing out that the v1 solo has only M8 (8mm) axles, these are too lightweight and flexy, everything else since has M10 (10mm) axles so they may be a lot stiffer and more durable.

There is absolutely a certain correlation between ATGNI-types and SC ownership

It seems there’s little middle ground with SC owners, either ATGNI or absolute pinners. I’m not good enough to be a pinner therefore I couldn’t bring myself to buy one as I’d fall into the former category.

However, they seem to me to be pretty middle of the road with their geo’s

+1

Yes there is more to a bike than the numbers, but I have found I prefer longish slackish bikes. The medium 5010 I demo’d a few years ago felt cramped, I’m 5’7″. However I noticed that the seat tube one the latest Bronson is short enough that I could just about size up to a large.

Stunning based on a demo. A hightower rode up a hill with no eagle & the seat far too low before I realised I was at the top. I normally push my bike up the same hill.

A bronson had immense precision, picked up speed downhill like nothing ive ever experienced  and gave me a level of confidence Ive never had on any other bike.

I want one. But am too tight to buy one. But will probably buy one anyway.

I had a 5010 v2 – it was fantastic, till I rode a Hightower but then I’m 6’4″ and 29″ wheels seem to suit me. My Hightower is XXL  – 505mm reach which is ideal.

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz. 😂

Hightower LT is the best bike I’ve ever owned. In the alps I’d honestly say it was 95% as fast as my DH bike. My old Spesh Enduro and my Nukeproof mega felt out of their depth at times but the Hightower feels so plush and stable at full tilt down alpine runs that I’ve ridden hundreds of times. It’s equally at home on mellower stuff, climbs brilliantly and barring a cheap standard headset I’ve not had a single problem with it

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz

yes because when ever people negatively comment about somthing its because they can’t afford it.  What you going to write next “haters gonna hate” or some other equally bullshit statement.

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz.

it’s always funny to see dickhead comments like this.

It would be even funnier if you drove an Audi…

The geometry off most Santa Cruz bikes is very conservative. Higher lt vs cube stereo 150 29er…. Near as dammit identical, reviews of cube mention it’s short reach etc, but Santa Cruz seem to avoid this…

I’d say more Mondeo with a Ferrari price tag

reviews of cube mention it’s short reach etc, but Santa Cruz seem to avoid this…

Is that as most people of a normal height can probably ridr anything up to xxl in the high tower.

I can read numbers from a page, don’t need a review to write them down for me.

Still the challenge there what’s wrong with a conservative geometry if it works? That is the acid test for a bike.

Yeah, confusing comment above as the reason I demo’d the Tallboy was because I was considering buying one. If it makes you feel happy to think that way though go for your life.

It would be even funnier if you drove an Audi…

A six year old fiat😂

yes because when ever people negatively comment about somthing its because they can’t afford it.

Just think Ross, you could stack those shelves for half a year and maybe buy one reserve wheel😉

Just think Ross, you could stack those shelves for half a year and maybe buy one reserve wheel

I don’t stack shelves  but my university teaching would pay for a nomad should I ever want one.

It’s always funny to see the jealousy from those that’ll never be able to afford a Santa Cruz

What an odd thing to say.

The last SC I had was the Nomad 3, which climbed like a pig. Went down alright, but the Reign I had after was a much better bike overall.

Ridden an HTLT, given how much it cost it was remarkably uninspiring to ride. Slack STA made it feel like a recumberant & short reach made it just feel weird. But then it was a bodge job to give them something a bit longer travel in the 29er market.

They don’t make anything i would want to spend money on these days. Guess that makes me a jealous hater who can’t afford one. 🙂

Gods gift to mincing, bang on queue….

I say no, most modern big brands are good, any brand new bike on a demo will always feel good. It must be impossible to pick a crap bike from SC, Giant, Spesh, Trek, YT, Canyon, Orange, Nukeproof, Cannondale, Transition, yeti, devinci, rocky mountain etc etc.
Surely it is based on colour, spec, preferences and what gives you the horn. The rest is marketing guff.

Look at the EWS which I think is a better measure of what we all aspire to.

Top teams in order:
Canyon, Ibis, Commencal, Cube, CRC (I assume nukeproof?), Rocky Mountain, GT, Trek,

SC-14th
Giant15th
Spesh 20th.

I don’t think it means any are bad. But personally I would go big brand like spesh, giant, trek etc as they are likely best value and best warranty. SC are a level above in terms of price, and despite the anecdotes above, my local  (crawley/north downs) anecdotes are that SC are bad when it comes to warranty – but that might be to do with a certain shop where lots of ATGNI types buy SC from…

No way are SC poor with warranty,  as you allude to, more likely the shop.

Honestly not sure who is trolling and who not anymore…

I’ve had three SC bikes.

Really good “point and shoot” bikes which just seemed to plough through suitable terrain. Got me into some lazy habits.

However, not the best climbing or cornering bikes I’ve owned. Front end was very fond of lifting and chain snap-tastic particularly if you tried to shift while climbing.

Customer service was excellent. Would buy another when current bike is finished with. (prob a Hightower).

No idea if I’m a god, a mincer, a troll or a jealous hater these days now!

@hobnob if what you do is mincing, I’m giving up riding…

Is there a huge difference in feel/ weight/ flex/ behaviour etc between the alloy and carbon SC’s? I’m a fan of alloy bikes but without demoing one of each material of the same bike, which is quite hard when sat behind a keyboard and no SC demo centres on my doorstep, I’m intrigued to see what others think/ have experienced?