Training? adaptation affect? a pace that brings about physiological change?

What happened to “just run”?

It seems that you were using a quick soundbite of advice, that is actually the opposite of what you actually do.

Yes slow is relative, for me its 7:00 to 7:30 min miles when a race will be 5:30 to 6:15

Thats it exactly. So many people think they can simply move at a pace slightly faster than walking and kid themselves they are following a prescribed training method. I shudder to think how fast Peter Snell’s LSD runs where 😯
Lydiard would be turning in his grave!

It seems that you were using a quick soundbite of advice, that is actually the opposite of what you actually do.

I have ignored you remarks and everybody else seem to have done the same thing. If you want to make a point go ahead just dont be an arse.

Just bought 2 new pairs of trainers, on a crossbread for road(40%,60%) trail and a pair of minimalist jobbies just for the road.
Let you know after the weekend how I got on with the minimalist(s)

Just pointing out how you preached “just run” with statements like

Your over thinking it. Just go out and run and it will take care of itself

but it turns out that isn’t what you do, you clearly don’t like having it pointed out, but making misleading statements as advice that you don’t follow yourself could really be considered being an arse.

but it turns out that isn’t what you do

Where did I say that this was what I do? please tell?

I said that in response to Molly who was talking about technique. That advice stands and Molly and I have a different view of “technique” also Molly has explained that he is relatively new to running so his and my requirements would be different.
I do “just run” but it has a purpose and within that running I adopt a number of different things, intervals, a lot of Fartlek and some very long runs.
I am not sure why you think my statement is incompatible with the things I have said since.

I’m doing 8:30mins miles on my weekend LSR just so I know I’m doing under 2 hours for a 1/2.

Can do 7mins mile for a 10k but haven’t been doing much speedy stuff recently, loving going long distance 🙂

Molly, I’m not a natural runner, took me ages to get from running round the block in one to wanting to cry thinking my legs and lungs were in fire, but I’m a bit obsessive about stuff so just kept on at it. To quote the masked man ” thank you, I’ve worked long and hard to become so”

The thing is, when I was a shuffling zombie, I was actually pretty fit from a cycling point of view. Having a high level of general fitness, but still being unable to do more than a zombie shuffle after about 3/4 mile or 2 miles in under 20 mins told me something was missing from the picture.

Turns out it was technique that was missing. As I said, surfer and I mean different things when talking about technique. He’s talking about the finer points of running fast, but I don’t think he’s ever experienced running from my starting point.

If you want to know what good running technique looks like, or any movement pattern for that matter, look at young kids and see how they move.

Not sure I agree with that. It takes many years to refine motor control, depending on what you end up doing.

I’ve got two kids, both really young, and they do things completely differently with a completely different innate aptitude.

I didn’t expect you to agree with it.

Squat like a baby.

Lol that’s genius!

Kids running. 😀

Some of whom are striking their heels way out in front of them.. I have no idea where you are going with this… some kids are crap runners, some are great.

It’s the new pedialithic running technique.

There’s a diet to go with it that sucks tits.

Some of whom are striking their heels way out in front of them.

And your point is what?

Have you ever seen an able bodied kid who thought they had a rubbish running style that they had to work on?

Some of whom are striking their heels way out in front of them

You cant tell from the picture if the heel will land first though.

Have you ever seen an able bodied kid who thought they had a rubbish running style that they had to work on?

NO but I’ve seen load and loads of kids who are crap at distance running! Honestly you must be on a wind up.

You’re saying that I should do what comes naturally, aren’t you?

I’ve told you many many times – I started off doing that, I did it between the ages of 10 and 34. And then I thought about it a bit, and got much better. I really don’t understand why you don’t believe me on this.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsUfo_jHQ60[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BojhBdWppc0[/video]

I was reading some articles on a running site that said very few distance runners, or triathletes (even those sponsored by Newton) finish the race running on their forefoot.

What they can do though is maintain a good cadence and land with their foot close to their body and with their knees in front of the ankles.

You’re saying that I should do what comes naturally, aren’t you?

I’ve told you many many times – I started off doing that, I did it between the ages of 10 and 34. And then I thought about it a bit, and got much better. I really don’t understand why you don’t believe me on this.

I’m saying that you should do what comes naturally yes. A zombie shuffle isn’t natural at 10 years old…

Baby – my running style doesn’t change with distance. I always land mid foot first, then heel lands shortly afterwards.

Let me explain again.

I started off doing what came naturally, and it was awful, and I hated running. I thought about technique, made some improvements, and my running got much better.

Are you disagreeing with that chain of events?

my running style doesn’t change with distance

Or so you think…

What they can do though is maintain a good cadence and land with their foot close to their body and with their knees in front of the ankles.

That’s the general conclusion we’ve come to on STW I think. Foot placement is important, heel/mid/toe less so.

The bit I’m not convinced about is that what you were doing was what came naturally. You may have made some changes which took you back to the “normal” running style that you had as a young child.

Or so you think…

It doesn’t – certainly not up to marathon distance.

Ok fair enough.

So why would I have changed my style, and at what age?

And how young are we talking about? Are you saying that ALL young kids have good technique?

And I never ran distances as a child either, so it’s a bit hard to make a comparison. All I did was sprint and muck about.

So you’re cadence is consistent from mile one though to 26?

You’re obviously a very good runner. With excellent technique and ancillary strength.

good technique

I dont know what this means

So you’re cadence is consistent from mile one though to 26?

Cadence isnt the same as foot strike. My footstrike stays the same even when I am exhausted and my “form” has started to get ragged. I still land on my forefoot.

Ok, so I think good technique means

a) you’re comfortable over several miles
b) you can keep form over several miles
c) if you’re generally fit, and you are working hard, you’re doing more than say 9.30

So why would I have changed my style, and at what age?

No idea.

And how young are we talking about? Are you saying that ALL young kids have good technique?

Given that you adopted the zombie shuffle at 10yrs old I’d say 9 and below. I’d also say that all able bodied kids without impairments have good running style.

So you’re cadence is consistent from mile one though to 26?

Pretty much. Stride length gets longer in the 2nd half of a run as I like to do negative splits.

You’re obviously a very good runner. With excellent technique and ancillary strength.

I was surrounded by top quality runners, including olympic gold medalists, as a kid. It’s like riding a bike – it never leaves you. 😀

Obviously Surfer. But as a runner tires and their cadence slows to maintain the same pace then the stride must lengthen?

Which may, or may not, result in a change in which part of the foot contacts the ground first.

Worth mentioning that some runners forefoot strike and overstride.

The part of the foot that hits the ground first is not what makes someone efficient.

I was surrounded by top quality runners, including olympic gold medalists, as a kid. It’s like riding a bike – it never leaves you.

Did you got to school with a guy called Matt who was into surfing?

I’d also say that all able bodied kids without impairments have good running style.

Based on what?

By the way, I never ‘adopted’ the zombie shuffle. I was heel striking out in front of me, which is very knackering, and results in significant fatigue. This in turn induces zombie characteristics.

I remember even at the age of about 6 or 7 noting that I had to run differnently in bare feet because my heels were hitting the floor too hard.

Ok, so I think good technique means

a) you’re comfortable over several miles
b) you can keep form over several miles
c) if you’re generally fit, and you are working hard, you’re doing more than say 9.30

Whereas I think good technique is:
You’re not landing heavily with limbs going everywhere,
You’re not spending all your energy going up and down,
You’re enjoying it and you’re relaxed.

I think your points overlap with mine, especially the last one.

you’re comfortable over several miles
b) you can keep form over several miles
c) if you’re generally fit, and you are working hard, you’re doing more than say 9.30

But this is a definition of fitness and comes with training.

But as a runner tires and their cadence slows to maintain the same pace then the stride must lengthen?

When I tire by definition my stride length would not lengthen to compensate. If I had the strength/energy to lengthen my stride I wouldnt be slowing. All of those things happen around the same time.

Which may, or may not, result in a change in which part of the foot contacts the ground first.

No necessarily. My forefoot strike comes naturally there is no effort involved and it would take a conscious effort to change it. Its developed that way through no decision on my part. I suspect it is faster and more efficient but is just a by product of a mis spent youth! If you run fast (using the term loosley in my case!) then you lean forward and have to push hard from the front of the foot using them as levers.
It seems counter intuitive that the next part of the cycle involves your heel.

Did you got to school with a guy called Matt who was into surfing?

No, but the guy on the right of this picture was our school running club’s coach.

He is even more awesome than Surf Matt. Saw him once at the national relays in Birmingham. What a Physical presence 😳