• This topic has 36 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 1 day ago by P20.
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  • Road Wheels ~ Scribe, Prime, DT or something else?
  • Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    Looking for some road wheels to go on my new bike when it arrives. I’m not that bothered by deep section aero as I’m unlikely to be going fast enough to benefit! I’m more interested in the wheels being light.

    So I’m looking at,

    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/prime-attaquer-disc-wheelset-tubeless-bundle/rp-prod198696
    Or

    https://scribecycling.co.uk/collections/alloy-disc-brake/products/scribe-race-d

    or

    https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swiss-pr1400-dicut-21-disc-clincher-road-wheels-700c-204813.html

    the prime and the scribe look very similar spec and I believe the scribe team used to design prime wheels, so no huge surprise. Both sets look good value.

    The lure of the DT hubs is strong, but it’s a huge jump and not one I feel I can justify.

    I will happily run tubes on the road, but may try tubeless.

    I realise I haven’t listed Hunt which would be an obvious candidate but don’t feel they offer anything over the Scribe/Prime

    any thoughts appreciated

    Premier Icon anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    I have some Prime Race on gravel bike, they’ve been ok, needed a bearing replacement after a year or so of all weather use. My other half has some superstar components wheels that I got with a 50% discount code which were crazy value

    Premier Icon trailwagger
    Free Member

    I looked at Scribe recently, really good weight to cost ratio was i was put off by the loud noise of the freewheel. Search it on Youtube, its worth checking before you buy if that sort of thing may bother you.

    Premier Icon mrchrispy
    Full Member

    I upgraded my DT-Swiss DiCut RR21 to some Hunt50 carbon hoops.

    The DT Swiss are lovely and marginally lighter than the hunts but i wanted some carbon rims as I’m a total road ponce. It was a very close between scribe and hunt to be fair….yes they are very loud and they are slightly faster on the flat but the main thing is they look badass.

    The DT Swiss are now sat in wheel bags doing bugger all, I’m open to selling them if want to go down that route.

    Premier Icon soundninjauk
    Full Member

    I’m not that bothered by deep section aero as I’m unlikely to be going fast enough to benefit! I’m more interested in the wheels being light.

    I thought this when I upgraded the wheels on my road bike and ended up on some carbon Reynolds ARX DB 41 (which are 41mm deep as the name suggests), up from some alloy DT Swiss jobbies. The original DT Swiss wheels weren’t that light, but good lord did the new wheels make a huge difference. I reckon I get 3 or 4 ‘free’ km/h out of them. So I guess what I’m saying is don’t underestimate the difference that a mildly deep aero wheel can make even at ‘regular’ rather than pro speeds.

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    Noise doesn’t bother me. I run King on the hardtail and I think the loudest was Royce BITD.

    @mrchrispy I could be interested depending on how much you want/spec that I’m looking for to fit the new bike

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    @soundninjauk

    the thing I dislike most about the deeper rims is the effect crosswinds have

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Check out Pacenti, their hubs are Bitex, so the same as Scribe (and probably also Hunt/Prime) but I *think* the rims are very slightly nicer (assuming Scribe/Hunt etc. use Kinlin rims, the Pacentis are a tiny bit lighter/nicer finished).

    I’m a bit of a fan boy but have a horrible feeling it’s mostly down to the Italian sounding name and fancy stickers…

    https://pacenticycledesign.co.uk/collections/aluminium-wheels-road/products/forza-wheelset-centre-lock-disc-brake-700c

    Edit: new ones don’t have quite as fancy stickers it seems…

    Premier Icon cultsdave
    Free Member

    I have a set of Scribe 40’s on the road bike. Compared to the stock DT wheels that came on the bike there is an obvious difference in the stifness feeling of the wheel. Its really noticable when accelerating out a corner. Despite this they do not feel uncomfortable on the rough roads which is nice. The seam very well made and are easily serviceable. One of my wheels went wrong after less than 2 weeks while I was on holiday in France. Scribe posted out a replacement complete with tyre on a next day delivery. They were surprised by the fault and further googling on my part has not shown up any other reliability issues. The replacement wheel has been faultless too.
    The only negative is the noise of the freehub, it really is loud. Thankfully you don’t do much freewheeling on a roadie!

    Premier Icon cultsdave
    Free Member

    Pretty sure Scribe Hubs are not Bitex, they are certainly different from hunt etc

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    I’ve got Pacenti rims on the gravel bike, but they have required a bit of attention to keep them straight, but I guess that could be the build. That Pacenti set are giving away 200grams though to the Scribe/Prime.

    I thought hunt used novatec?

    Premier Icon jonba
    Free Member

    I had some prime wheels on my road bike. They were great, ran true for 3 years, raced, ridden across the alps etc.

    Sadly they cracked around a couple of the spoke holes. Front one still holds up my turbo bike. That said I’d buy them again. I gave them some stick and the one’s I got were at the cheaper end.

    To add to your list I’d have a look at justridingalong. I had a set of their wheels on my CX bike. 5 seasons, 3 goes at the 3 peaks and I didn’t touch them!

    Also Cero, they used to be popular and I heard good things. Likely similar in quality to Prime – just rebadged far east stuff (which i’d be happy with). Probably kinlin rims on novatech hubs.

    Premier Icon GHill
    Full Member

    Have you looked at JRA?

    I’m currently tempted to get some 35/50 deep carbon wheels, so not really looking at the same stuff but JRA looked a good option there.

    Edit: I’m obviously incapable of reading the post above properly.

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    Just to add some context to this thread. I’ve just sold my Colnago complete with it’s original Ksyriums on it at 18yrs old! Original bearings etc. Would consider the latest version but they’re heavier than the options I’m looking at.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    To add to your list I’d have a look at justridingalong.

    JustRidingAlong MAP wheels look awesome for the money, can build very light (especially with the CX-Ray spoke upgrade) and fully customisable.

    Was about to hit the button on a set but gave in to pride/vanity/cheapness and decided to build my own wheels instead.

    I’ve got Pacenti rims on the gravel bike, but they have required a bit of attention to keep them straight, but I guess that could be the build. That Pacenti set are giving away 200grams though to the Scribe/Prime.

    I think that must have been the build, I built a set up 28 spoke, 2 cross, as tense as the rims could handle, and they didn’t need any attention in a year of clumsy gravel chundering until I dissolved the front rim in 3 months muddy CX use 😣

    I agree that their builds all seem relatively unspectacular at close to 1650g, I think it’s just the spoke count etc. that causes it, the rims were the lightest aluminium rims I could find aftermarket (well, for the width and depth anyway).

    Premier Icon forked
    Free Member

    I’m wary of lightweight alloy wheels that use standard (low count) spokes and hubs, having used sets in the past that just weren’t stiff enough. They feel vague when accelerating and when riding over rough roads downhill.

    Light Bicycle or Far Sports should be able to build you something with lowish profile carbon rims, that’ll be stiff and light (circa 1300g). They should come in at the top end of your budget.

    Premier Icon soundninjauk
    Full Member

    @P20

    the thing I dislike most about the deeper rims is the effect crosswinds have

    Yeah fair enough. I’ve found the trade off to be worth it in my riding but of course YMMV.

    Premier Icon claudie
    Full Member

    I have roval slx24 which have DT internals and I run them tubeless. Been perfect for over 10K miles

    Premier Icon akira
    Full Member

    JRA mahi mahis, good price, decent weight and few build options so you can make them pretty.

    Premier Icon Haze
    Free Member

    Something from Lightbicycle maybe?

    Just got 56mm carbon rims (you can go shallower/lighter) with DT Swiss 240 EXP hubs built up with CX Ray

    About £850 delivered, choice of hubs or cheaper spokes etc

    Premier Icon luket
    Full Member

    I’m after a loosely similar thing (sorry for slight hijack) and so these options have piqued my interest but raise a question…

    Spoke count. Talking to a respected wheel builder he says go 28/28. Would only go down to 24 for really quite light riders, <c.70kg. and the problems are from braking force, implying front needs as many as rear. Yet many options, including all the above, have much lower spoke counts and often without deeper section or carbon rims so I don’t think there’s a mitigation on stiffness.

    What say you folks on this?

    I’m hovering over the go button on hand built 28/28 20mm internal width rims (Hydra, Aileron or Kinlin) but on Hope hubs for better sealing, accepting a weight and cost penalty there. From c.£450 but a bit more for black spokes/nipples.

    Premier Icon mrb123
    Free Member

    Carbon rims do make a lot of sense for a disc build.

    On my winter bike I have some wide, 30mm deep Farsports rims with DT Swiss 350s and 28/28 CX Rays, brass nipples. From memory they came in about £620 including delivery and pre paid import tax. About 1450g for the set.

    You can go a bit lighter for a summer build if you spec Bitex or similar and alu nipples.

    Premier Icon cakeandcheese
    Full Member

    One pair of scribe 40d and one pair of light bicycle 56mm falcon on novatecs here. Both on cx rays, both tubeless.

    The scribes are noisy but filling with grease does help. The novatec hubs have an easy life (Aussie weather and best bike) so I wasn’t too worried about bearing sealing.

    Both sets are light and have been reliable so far. No complaints with either.

    Premier Icon bjhedley
    Full Member

    I’ve got 2 sets of Scribes, some 365 Alu for winter and a set of Aero 50 Carbon for summer. Been really pleased with the performance and service from Scribe so far. Still nice and true even after shite roads and the bearings are still smooth. Bought the Carbon’s to replace my campag Bora’s with ceramic bearings that barely lasted 3 wet Sportives.

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    Those JRA look good.
    having read the road.cc review and the comments aboveI think I’m leaning towards the scribes

    Premier Icon n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    I’d be wary of 21 spokes on a front disc brake wheel, 24+ is considered the norm iirc.

    Premier Icon HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    I had some prime Pro disc wheels, 1450g ish. They were quite flexy and bearings wore out quickly. Not sure I’d buy them again. As above I’d prob get more spokes, 32 i think, even it means a custom build. Then again im not so fussed about weight these days.

    Premier Icon freeagent
    Free Member

    I’ve got Pacenti rims on the gravel bike, but they have required a bit of attention to keep them straight, but I guess that could be the build.

    I’ve got a set of Pacenti rims built up on Hope hubs by my LBS on my gravel bike.
    I’m a 100KG talentless oaf, and have had minimal issues over the last couple of years (1 broken spoke i think) so they do build into reliable wheels.

    I have a second set of Pacenti rim-braked wheels on my roadie which have been similarly reliable – and a massive improvement over the H Plus Son Architype rims they replaced – which were total rubbish.

    I’d rather buy hand built wheels from a trusted/reliable local source, which need not be more expensive than mass-produced stuff on-line, but everyone’s experiences and needs are different.

    Premier Icon john_l
    Free Member

    Strada All Season Disc wheels linky

    DT rims, Miche hubs with upgraded seals and bearings, handbuilt to a very high standard.

    I’ve got a set of these with the slightly wider 22mm DT rim and bladed spokes and they’re superb, as are all of the wheelsets Strada have built me over the years. Also have some Forzas on Novatec hubs, which are nice but the DT/Miche build “feels” better.

    Premier Icon mcbyker
    Full Member

    I’d also be “concerned” about the Scribes. I don’t understand the use of radial or 1x spoking on a disc wheel. In their info, they suggest that

    “When you apply braking on disc brakes, wheel speed is slowed by applying force only on the disc side of the wheel.” **

    So, er, the hub flanges aren’t connected? I’d love to understand more if someone can educate me.

    **perhaps for their wheel build this statement is true *because* they use radial spoking. Rather than the statement being true, thereby *allowing* the use of radial spoking?

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    Pretty sure Roval and others do the same with the radial lacing. Having read a bit more about the JRA Map wheels I’m swinging towards them.

    Premier Icon cynic-al
    Full Member

    Original Ksyrium wheels (non disc obvs) were radial in the drive side. It’s daft IMO but it seems to work. Braking forces are lower at the rear and on the front wheel the disc side spokes are in higher tension.

    Premier Icon branes
    Full Member

    On the spoke counts for disk braked wheels – yes, definitely at least 24 spokes.

    I did a bit of static force analysis (*) a while back and stuck the formulae in a spreadsheet – you get surprisingly large changes in spoke tension under extreme braking. Depending on the hub flange height and number of spokes I’d also prefer 3x lacing vs 2x, which reduces spoke tension change by 10% or so.

    And yes, agree @mcbyker , unless the hub shell is twisting massively the torque will be transmitted on both drive and none-drive. One thing is certain, on any wheel the radially laced side is doing nothing under drive or braking loads. I reckon disk wheels one side radially laced are quite likely to be seeing half the drive side spokes slack and conversely the other half doubled in tension under extreme braking loads. Not a pleasant thought, not good for the rim bed spoke holes or for the wheel trueness if those slack spokes decide to unwind a bit.

    (*) this is simple geometry really, the only remotely tricky bit is working out the formula for perpendicular distance of the spoke from the hub centre with varying spoke crossings. The rest is just taking moments and estimating the max braking force at the contact patch.

    Premier Icon cynic-al
    Full Member

    Interesting, you think the spokes “pushing” under braking are clotheslining if one side is radial?

    Premier Icon jwt
    Free Member

    Prime wheels – have a set of cheap disc wheels that lasted three winters before needing new bearings. The latest set of bearings haven’t lasted that long since replacement, but they were cheap.
    Scribe pace wheels – about three years , been great, done the Fred, couple of tour de yorkshire,lots of lakes rides & never missed a beat, and more ‘comfortable’ than the Hunts they replaced at a similar weight.
    Scribe carbon 3850’s on the ‘best’ bike that I’ve made more of an effort to use last year, transformed the ride from the aforementioned Hunts, (but apples and oranges as they were race aero I think?) fine in crosswinds and very light.
    If I could find an excuse and the money for some Scribe 5068’s i would get some.
    Alan at scribe is very approachable and honest.

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    https://cyclingtips.com/2021/02/scribe-aero-wide-42-disc-brake-road-wheelset-review/

    different wheels but front lacing is inconsistent, but the negative seem to stop there for the pattern.
    for me, I’m still thinking jra

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    JRA Map Superlights ordered! 😃

    Thank you all

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