How can character deaths be trusted in any film going forward now?

I know most of the films had some sense of reality with Jesus type births, massive worms, spaceships, moving rocks buy just concentrating and talking with dead people but you have to feel by allowing people to live after being killed is just getting beyonds the realms of reality.

I do agree to an extent about the warping of ‘the rules’ of the science fiction world that Star Wars inhabits.

There was just all this weird stuff that happened, that’s never happened before but all of a sudden is perfectly normal & reasonable…similar to when all of a sudden R2-D2 could fly….trudge through a sandy desert, rather than fly over it & get captured by the sand people, but get stuck in a weird furnace place (not a massive fan, so can’t quite remember all the details) and just decide to engage rockets & start flying about. Anyway, I digress….

Weird things that suddenly appeared in the latest on for me, included…

The healing stuff – ooooh, there’s a funny snake with an abrasion, I’ll just give him a rub & make him better….

Jedi ghosts who can now interact with the material world – so Ghost Luke can catch the lightsabre & re-float a sunken X-Wing. If they can still use their Jedi powers in ghost mode, why aren’t they all still around, helping the rebels in many more situations? I can cope with a ghostly apparition providing some advice, but to then randomly start interacting with the material world seems a bit odd…

The ‘virtual reality’ fights, where Rey & Kylo Ren are fighting each other across space & all of a sudden material things get somehow transmitted through the virtual world & appear….Rey bumping into Darth’s helmet which then falls at Kylo’s feet…..eh?! If they can fight virtually & mortally wound each other, why didn’t Kylo Ren just wait until bed time & virtually assassinate Rey?

I was out from the moment a CGI Leia dragged herself to safety from space using the force.

Why is that the part that is unbelievable? She’s as powerful as Luke.

In Guardians of the Galaxy there was a similar moment, but no-one has called them out on it.

Why is that the part that is unbelievable?

Indeed.

Laser swords
Telekenisis
Mind control
Scientifically inaccurate light speed travel
Ghosts
Gangster slugs
etc

But someone flying in space is the unbelievable part

In Guardians of the Galaxy there was a similar moment, but no-one has called them out on it.

In fairness, the bloke who didn’t have the breathing equipment died in that one.

The problem isn’t that the Star Wars universe is too far-fetched, it’s just about internal consistency. The hyperspace jump through the pursuing star destroyer in TLJ was cool, but it raised a lot of questions about why that wasn’t an established tactic against Death Stars and the like, and also why the admiral waited until nearly all her flotilla was dead before doing it, and why she didn’t use one of the more expendable ships.

I’m also sure there is some basic physics/gravity issue with the idea of a bombing run in space, but I was prepared to let that drop, as it were.

There was just all this weird stuff that happened, that’s never happened before but all of a sudden is perfectly normal & reasonable…

That irked me too. There would have been an awful lot of deus ex machina moments in RoS, if there hadn’t also been an awful lot of foreshadowing to offset it.

Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Samuel L Jackson, Christopher Lee.

Yip, awful.

Alternatively, it was abysmal scripting, an over reliance on awful CGI, exposition heavy dialogue and sub-plots etc

You’re right, apart from Natalie Portman, who IS awful.

It was the acting, not the actors, on the whole.

If they can still use their Jedi powers in ghost mode, why aren’t they all still around, helping the rebels in many more situations? I can cope with a ghostly apparition providing some advice, but to then randomly start interacting with the material world seems a bit odd…

tbh ever since JJ Abrams came along with the TFA theyve been doing these silly things

its just lazy script writing & to wow us all with a new twist

eg when Han Solo jumped the Falcon inside the shield of starkiller base
-If theyd have done that in ROTJ, then there would have been no need to go to endor at all!

In fairness, the bloke who didn’t have the breathing equipment died in that one.

No he didn’t…

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1553730/how-star-lord-was-able-to-stay-alive-in-space-without-a-helmet-according-to-james-gunn

The problem isn’t that the Star Wars universe is too far-fetched, it’s just about internal consistency.

Yes – things need to fit into the laws of their established universe otherwise you get Matt Smith waving his sonic screwdriver at everything to fix it.

I’m also sure there is some basic physics/gravity issue with the idea of a bombing run in space, but I was prepared to let that drop, as it were.

They could be magnetic?

The hyperspace jump through the pursuing star destroyer in TLJ was cool, but it raised a lot of questions about why that wasn’t an established tactic against Death Stars and the like, and also why the admiral waited until nearly all her flotilla was dead before doing it, and why she didn’t use one of the more expendable ships.

She just thought of it?
I’d not thought of it, had anyone who questions it?

but fully buy in to the stroke of luck in A New Hope that Leia sends a message to Obi Wan and the Droids happen to land on the planet where he is in hiding. And of all the people that buy them from the Jawas it’s a family with a link to Obi Wan.

Perhaps Leia had an idea of roughly where Obi Wan could be found and programmes R2 accordingly. She has jedi powers after all. Perhaps she had other saviours on other planets that could help but because she is above Tatooine when she knows capture is imminent then she relies on Obi Wan.
I am aware that lucky encounters are required throughout cinematic history, and that other standalone films have elements of death and resurection which are core to a films plot but the Palpatine returning from the grave years after writers would have us believe he has clearly died surely should be explained.

An example of the writers clueless approach to what they want is in setting up a new emperor like character in Snoke before killing him off before no development at all. As a character he seemed utterly pointless. He should have been the Emperor character in the last film of the series.

The whole Palpatine returns from the dead with no explanation is not just me. I have spoken to others and read reviews where that has been an issue. My 10yo son saw it at a party and he found it too much of a leap of faith.

I will agree to disagree with those that like it.

They could be magnetic?

Can’t see any problems with chucking metal bombs out of your metal space bomber? 😀

@martinhutch @kimbers the micro jumping in the Falcon in TROS was irksome; as any fule kno you can’t make the jump to hyperspace in a gravity well.

i’m also sure there is some basic physics/gravity issue with the idea of a bombing run in space,

Star Destroyers clearly generate their own gravity otherwise there’d be Stormtroopers floating about everywhere.

If you can accept that people are able to walk about on the space ships then the bombing needs to work as well.

The bombs are dropped due to the artificially  generated gravity inside the smaller ship allowing them to accelerate and gain enough velocity to escape that  and once in the vaccuum of space they are then attracted by the much larger gravitational pull of the much larger ships. ( since gravity is determined by mass.)

tbh ever since JJ Abrams came along with the TFA theyve been doing these silly things

Again, is it any sillier than midiclorians, yoda suddenly being the long lost uncle of Simone Biles, Obi Wan’s ghost suggesting Luke turns off his targeting computer, a 900 year old frail jedi telekinetically raising a crashed X Wing from a swamp which promptly flies off with no ill effects etc

THE WHOLE THING IS NONSENSE! STOP NIT PICKING!

I think people forget that all of the jedi we meet in the original trilogy are shit. Yoda’s practically dead, Alec Guiness is permanently drunk, and Luke barely knows how to turn on a light sabre. It totally makes sense for there to be other force powers that we’ve never seen.

And sure, we see a lot more of them in the prequel but we don’t really see an opportunity for force healing, etc. Most of the jedi we see actually doing stuff are warriors rather than scholars.

“but fully buy in to the stroke of luck in A New Hope that Leia sends a message to Obi Wan and the Droids happen to land on the planet where he is in hiding”

The Force moves in mysterious ways

Han Solo thought about hyperspace crashes in episode IV when he was telling Luke flying in space wasn’t like dusting crops as they escape from Tattooine. I don’t really a problem with Palpatines return, Snoke was a dead end, it did feel like episodes VII and VIII were the anomalies although Reys parentage was a bit iffy.

Princess Leia going to Tatooine made sense though, the Organa’s would have known where Obi Wan was and the star destroyer caught up when the Tantive IV came out of hyperspace. The inconsistency was it must have tracked the Tantive IV through hyperspace which is impossible according to a key part of episode VIII without a tracker on the ship being followed or First Order tech that was news to everyone in episode VIII.

Anyway Rogue One is best followed by

Empire Strikes Back
New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
Rise of Skywalker
Clone Wars
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Last Jedi

“but fully buy in to the stroke of luck in A New Hope that Leia sends a message to Obi Wan and the Droids happen to land on the planet where he is in hiding”

Exccept she was already flying over Tatooine when she recorded the message immediately prior to her capture.

She also says that she was sent to find him by her father so she clearly knew where he was hiding.

Not so much luck.

Anyway Rogue One is best followed by

Empire Strikes Back
New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
Rise of Skywalker
Clone Wars
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Last Jedi

You forgot about Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure!

And what about

?

“We’re driving home for wookie christmas,
Oh I can’t wait to see their faces…
Oh no actually, they’re really awful”

But I feel that Lucas did sell them a massively popular universe with likeable characters and overarching themes that Disney are trying hard to flush down the toilet through horrendously lazy writing.

Overarching themes and lazy writing?

Lucas couldn’t even keep track of the films. Obi Wan can’t recall owning a droid he was friends with for years. He goes in to hiding by wearing exactly the same clothes he’s always worn. Literally a Jedi uniform!

Changes his name to basically the name he already had. Keeps a lightsaber that was used to massacre most of his mates and a bunch of small children. Finally hides Luke on the one planet that Darth Vader would most likely look for him on, in the place he would probably look first.

Vader can sense Luke through space in the middle of a battle, can’t sense his daughter from less than a foot away.

There is no overarching plot or ideas . Just films for children and nostalgia for some adults.

Han Solo thought about hyperspace crashes in episode IV when he was telling Luke flying in space wasn’t like dusting crops

From a self preservation perspective of not destroying your own ship, rather than the idea of destroying whatever you crash into.

**** forum stop being shit

Lucas couldn’t even keep track of the films. Obi Wan can’t recall owning a droid he was friends with for years. He goes in to hiding by wearing exactly the same clothes he’s always worn. Literally a Jedi uniform!

Lucas couldn’t keep track of them for sure, however did Obi Wan Kenobi actually ‘own’ R2D2. I will let you in on a secret. I owned a Rover Metro that I was friendly with 25 years ago. If I see a Rover Metro today I cant be sure if it my old friend or not. Can you actually believe that?

Also Kenobi goes to Tatooine for for solitude not to hide. I dont see why he should feel the need to change his clothes.

I will grant you that hiding Luke with relatives is a silly idea, by my point is that now knowing that being killed is no real impediment, it doesn’t really matter what he does does it? Every character might as well have a bright target on their back for all it matters now.

You forgot about Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure!

There’s also the sequel

I went to see it on Saturday night and, having been there as an 11 yr old queing around the block to see the original back in ’77 I have to say I loved it. IMO it was the best film since Empire Strikes Back – plenty of the big fight scenes we have come to expect, plenty of nods back to the original three films and I thought they wrapped it all up quite neatly really. I even felt a tiny bit emotional at times.

A very solid 8/10 from me.