Right to be peeved? Kids nativity content

It’s Christmas. It’s the story of the birth of Christ.

I’ve highlighted the important bit.

If you’re going to participate in Christmas in general then a minutes silent non-participation in a harmless wee prayer’s not too much to ask.

No – this is the important bit.
If you don’t want to expose your kids to Christianity, don’t tell them that a saint appears magically in their house and leaves them stuff. Don’t let them sing “Away in a Manger”
Also don’t let them go on school trips to the local Mosque or Synagogue or Gurdwara in case they get told stuff you don’t want them to hear.

Heh. This should be a good one.

Our lad’s nativity play was in a church and was all god-bothery from start to finish, the carols were of the more religious type, some of the kids did a prayer (although there wasn’t any actual preaching from qualified ministers, thankfully, it was long enough as it was). It’s not a religious school but the whole son-of-god bit is kind of central to the whole holiday, lots of people expect it, and if you deliberately leave it out then religious types get all pissy about ‘banning Christmas’ and suchlike nonsense.

Now, I’m about as atheistic as they come. I think the world would be a better place if everyone abandoned their imaginary friends and faced the universe on their own two feet. I was raised as a Christian so my tolerance of religious ceremony is pretty low, I dislike going into churches, and I hate almost everything about Xmas in general (bah humbug). But this is just my personal opinion of things as a grumpy old man, and I think that my kid is going to be smart enough to realise it’s all hogwash in a few years anyway. Being part of the overall cultural Xmas thing isn’t all bad for tinies, and is probably better than not having that common ground with other kids, or being made to stand out as different because of my beliefs. So I just let it go and bite my tongue.

Personally I doubt I would have contacted the school about it. My wife probably would though, she likes a bit of a fight. You don’t owe them an apology though, that’s for sure, it clearly matters to you so stick to your guns.

Oh My God.

.

Get a grip, the nativity is a story about christ.

I’ve highlighted the important bit.

I would like it to be treated exactly the same as Hanukkah, Diwali, Ramadan etc. It wasn’t.

Why, does anyone force you to attend celebrations of any of those events?

It is if you’re atheist. What’s the difference?

As I said, it’s a celebration of a religious festival.

Even if you don’t believe any of it, you should treat others people cultures with some respect.

You are coming across as a “Daily Mail reading atheist botherer.”

You are no different than the protests to schools celebrating Eid al-Fitr.

If fact you are making yourself look quite foolish.

heaven help us

Even if you don’t believe any of it, you should treat others people cultures with some respect.

We sat quietly while the minister said his piece. What was unrespectful about that?

As I said, it’s a celebration of a religious festival.

It’s a wee play where all the kids get to dress up, wave at their parents, and sing some songs. It was lovely. Just like every other school play I’ve seen.

You are no different than the protests to schools celebrating Eid al-Fitr.

My daughter’s school celebrated Eid, as well as the nativity. In neither case was a preacher invited to try and convert her.

This is a Scottish state school which is non-denominational – to quote myself:

I’m sure it is, all I’m saying is I was heavily surrounded by religion through my schooling but I came out the other side believing it was all mumbo-jumbo.
i.e – Don’t spend time worrying about it as a clear thinking person will come to their own conclusions regardless.

Its hardly disrespectful to send a quiet email to the school. Standing up in the middle of it and telling the vicar to **** off would be though.

Sounds like a balanced reaction* to be fair. I cant stand prayers though I’ll tolerate all the pageantry for the sake of a bit of social cohesion.

*depending on the actual content of the email of course.

My daughter’s school celebrated Eid, as well as the nativity. In neither case was a preacher invited to try and convert her.

Spot on. To emphasise again, I have no problem with the school doing the nativity. It was fun. They do the same for other festivals. My objection was to inviting the minister along to lead an act of worship, which is not done with other religious festivals and is against guidelines.

I spent most of my early schooling being made to feel different and somehow bad because I wouldn’t close my eyes and bow my head when the visiting minister told me to – I’m not having that for my daughter too.

If you are so worried about this, why on earth haven’t you enrolled your child into a secular school?

Personally, I’m very pro children being taught about religion, so as they get older *they* can decide what they wish to believe in, rather than blindly following the herd. Knowledge in my mind is always better than blissful ignorance.

Unfortunately some atheists in this are as bad as the god squad when it comes to religious education and fit the stereotype that a closed mind, rarely comes with a closed mouth and berate anyone who disagrees with their beliefs or lack of.

Its not a C of E, Catholic or Faith School. What other options do I have?

Oh and I have no issue with my son learning about religion, I do however think he should be allowed to make his own decisions, and school not tell him that God is true and the only one.

But I presume you buy presents and celebrate Christmas, I know a lot of people think Santa invented Christmas but the clue is in the title of the festival. What about easter – you don’t buy eggs for the kids do you?

People do tend to be very hypocritical about stuff like this and only choose to be outraged about certain things then take part in the bits they like.

depending on the actual content of the email of course.

The content of the email was to say that it was a lovely show and the teachers and kids obviously worked really hard, but allowing the minister to give a sermon at the end was jarring and against guidelines.

If you are so worried about this, why on earth haven’t you enrolled your child into a secular school?

He did. Try reading the thread.

If you are so worried about this, why on earth haven’t you enrolled your child into a secular school?

It is. It is a non-denominational Scottish state school. Do I need to quote the guidelines again?

Peeve away mate, the fact that none of the objections here address your actual point show something IMO.

oh for the love of god

Unfortunately some atheists in this are as bad as the god squad insofar education and fit the stereotype that a closed mind, rarely comes with a closed mouth and berate anyone who disagrees with their beliefs or lack of.

Your militant Agnostics would hold that Atheism is just as much a faith as any of the religions.

Ben – Where are the guidelines because I would be intrigued to read them.

At our son’s school they had a preacher come over from Africa to chat to them about ‘Africa’

It was really interesting him talking about the animals, the music, the way of life, but when he started saying how God will not be happy if they misbehave, and God is watching over them all the time, IMO that was OTT

Do I need to quote the guidelines again?

No. Please don’t.

But I presume you buy presents and celebrate Christmas

I celebrated Diwali once, as I happened to be in India at the time. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t make me a Hindu.

We sat quietly while the minister said his piece. What was unrespectful about that?

Except the head teacher now has to respond to your email, speak to the minister to let him know there was a complaint, organise all the next years events to be different, let the council know another complaint came it…

You have shown lack of respect to the head and teachers, the minister and the school community by over reacting and making things formal.

I’m sure that when they have their Eid Mubarrak or Diwali celebrations they have an equivalent preacher?

No, they don’t – don’t usually have anyone, teachers handle it, which is fine

You’ve got a point. I’m not sure I’d have the equivalent reaction, but you have a point.

You have shown lack of respect to the head and teachers, the minister and the school community by over reacting and making things formal.

Err, no. He thinks that the school has failed to comply with its own published guidelines, and has written to them as a result.

Ben – Where are the guidelines because I would be intrigued to read them.

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=12233&p=0

OK, I missed that part, apologies; I’m kind surprised that secular school would even mark a religious festival as couldn’t any celebration be seen as trying to convert people?

Your militant Agnostics would hold that Atheism is just as much a faith as any of the religions.

For sake of balance, I might on a bad day be guilty of that.

I was educated by a C of E school, attended all the ‘important’ church services and took part in traditional ‘preachy’ Nativity plays.
However. as an adult I have absolutely zero religious beliefs whatsoever.

+1

Although I remember getting really quite upset by it all as a Teenager trying to figure it all out, I even made some attempt to read the Bible cover to cover.

My kids won’t be christened and won’t be going to a CoE school unless there’s no other option (I think it’s rubbish that schools are religious at all TBH, but hat seems to be the future with academy being religious too). In fact I;d go as far as trying to get them into some other faith school. At least then there’d be some chance of it being a “these people believe this, those people believe that” type conversation.

You have shown lack of respect to the head and teachers, the minister and the school community

And God. Don’t forget God.

A very polite email reminding the school of their guidelines is not disrespectful. It’s quite possible that the head teacher was as surprised as we were by the sermon at the end, and would welcome feedback.

Muslim and Hindu kids

There is no such thing as Muslim, Hindu or even Christian kids – they’re just kids whose parents are Muslim, Hindu or Christian and are currently been indoctrinated/brain washed into those faiths.

All children are born atheists (a lack of belief in any gods) until the brain washing takes hold.

But I presume you buy presents and celebrate Christmas, I know a lot of people think Santa invented Christmas but the clue is in the title of the festival. What about easter – you don’t buy eggs for the kids do you?

People do tend to be very hypocritical about stuff like this and only choose to be outraged about certain things then take part in the bits they like.

Gary – Come on now. I am happy that he goes to school and learns about Christianity, I think it is good that he understands what Easter and Christmas are about (without destroying the magical mystery around Santa, which yes I know is a belief in itself) but I am not happy that a 5yr old now believes in God because a school has groomed him.

I celebrated Diwali once, as I happened to be in India at the time. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t make me a Hindu.

Not the same, bringing kids up celebrating christmas and easter whilst playing the staunch athiest line is hypocrisy.

I am not happy that a 5yr old now believes in God because a school has groomed him

As a parent you’ve already let him believe Christ existed so it wouldn’t take much for him to believe in god.

OK, I missed that part, apologies; I’m kind surprised that secular school would even mark a religious festival as couldn’t any celebration be seen as trying to convert people?

…only in the fevered imagination of the Daily Mail. Teaching children about religious and cultural festivals is part of their education, trying to convert them isn’t.

I should imagine that the Muslims and Hindus were quite comfortable with the concept of prayer, the former do rather a lot of it.

I think they can do a nativity play, then leave it to individual parents to say its real or it is just a nice story etc to their own kids. I think it is pretty disrespectful of the school and vicar to say it is all true without considering the watching families views on reality.

Yes massive overreaction, good attempt at pc points though. Presumably you aren’t celebrating xmas at all in your house then?

Fwiw I spent seven years at primary school reciting the Lords prayer and doing nativity plays and I’ve grown up a happy atheist and have never believed in God. I can still remember lots of the prayer though it has merged with akela we’ll do our best in my head.

There is no such thing as Muslim, Hindu or even Christian kids – they’re just kids whose parents are Muslim, Hindu or Christian and are currently been indoctrinated/brain washed into those faiths.

I wasn’t going to even go down that argument 😉

Not the same, bringing kids up celebrating christmas and easter whilst playing the staunch athiest line is hypocrisy.

Bringing kids up celebrating the pagan festivals of Yule and Ostara while pretending they’re all about Jesus is equally hypocritical if you want to go down that line.

Not the same, bringing kids up celebrating christmas and easter whilst playing the staunch athiest line is hypocrisy.

I don’t believe in god so you can’t have a present? Good one.