Riding fixed without a Lock Ring

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  • Riding fixed without a Lock Ring
  • Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    I don't ride with either a lockring or a co… 😳 on the track. AFAIK, very few riders do, including not many of the BC track team.

    Not really needed, as the pedalling action tightens up the sprocket. However, if you're someone who likes to stand on the pedals and lock up the rear wheel (like some baseball capped fixie kid), then a lockring would be a good idea.

    I'll prob run one on the road fixed I'm going to build.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Ive heard it said that the rotafix method of tightening the cog on the hub can do it sufficiently tighly to make a lock ring unnecessary…

    http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignonestep1.htm

    MrSmith
    Member

    track no. road yes. although i did run without one on the road but only because it took 2 people with a scaffold pole as a lever to fit an EAI cog onto a goldtec hub, no amount of skidding was going to move it.

    No cock ring or lock ring for me then.

    Ready for my first fixed, off road, fully rigid, 96er, tubeless, Custom Ti adventure.

    Any niche unticked?

    Premier Icon firestarter
    Subscriber

    i didnt run one for a while but then in an emergency stoppy thingy i not only got thrown over the bars but also managed to undo the sprocket ;-( i then glued it on and it was fine tho i did buy one in the end

    ive heard you can get an old bb collar to butt up against it and hold it on (this assumes its not a proper fixie hub and a normal screw on ss hub ??)

    if you can fit one i would tbh

    pq
    Member

    Track riders don't use a lockring because they use such a big gear, they don't have enough leverage to unscrew it with leg power – therefore it's unnecessary.

    On the road, assuming you're not using a daft gear, that doesn't apply – you'll have a lot more leverage so you can spin the sprocket off, so it's a good idea to have one.

    Legally, a fixed only counts as a rear brake if you have a lockring, but that doesn't matter because you'll be running a rear brake anyway.

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Subscriber

    Try not to live up to your name, WCA.

    Anybody spot that the bike in those pics has got a lockring?

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Legally, a fixed only counts as a rear brake if you have a lockring

    Legally Id love to find a copper who whould know where a lockring goes, let alone what one is 😉

    samuri
    Member

    I'd never ride without one, even on the track. It weighs a couple of grams and could stop the cog undoing right when I desperately need it.

    BigJohn – Trust me, I do!

    saladdodger
    Member

    Off road are you bloody mad

    I tried fixed off road once and ended up covered in cow shit, mind you I was clattered at the time and did not find out till I woke up in my bed the next day 😳 and that little **** Danny Baker with his Aeril Ultra challenge was no where to be seen

    What could possibly go wrong?

    joemarshall
    Member

    I think riding fixed off road, even with a back brake you will find yourself putting back pressure on the pedals. It will happen when you are going downhill fast and need to keep your speed under control. There's certainly a risk of spinning the cog. A fast downhill is possibly not the best time to discover that you've suddenly lost control.

    Joe

    Premier Icon mtbfix
    Subscriber

    Get a lockring. I rode fixed mtb for a while and on a very few occasions under heavy leg braking (no rear brake) the sprocket came undone and heading down a hill with only a front brake was an experience I'd happily dodge through choice.

    Joe – that is the normal time I find I have lost control.

    There is a disc on the back so brakes should be fine in emergencies. The rest of the time I hopefully won't be putting enough pressure on it.

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Here.

    For a quid.

    A metaphor about ships and tar springs to mind.

    pq
    Member

    If you're riding off road, I'd say a lock ring is essential. You'll be using a pretty small gear so you'll easily spin the cog off. OK, you'll be able to stop no problem because of the rear brake, but no way can you ride a fixed off road without ever putting a lot of back pressure on the pedals. Long off road cranks will make it worse.

    If you loosen the cog on a descent, and then stomp up a steep hill, you're quite likely to strip the thread on the hub as it tightens up suddenly.

    The hub is the bottom picture on this web site : http://www.philwood.com/products/hubs/kiss-off-mtb-hubs/

    There is no room to put a lock ring

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    You need a new hub then. Time to sell the Merc! 🙂

    Hmm… might just risk it. Can always flog the wheel if it doesn't work

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Subscriber

    Beware steep drops! (I'm not saying don't do them – just beware!) Not for the normal reason, but when you go off the back of the saddle, you find your little legs aren't long enough to reach the bottom of the pedal stroke, so you lock up anyway.

    "How do you know this?" I hear you ask…

    Yes, that is Lock ring starting with an L not a C

    Screw on a cog, tighten it up a bit and ride away, yes?

    Is the lock ring essential? I will have a rear brake anyway.

    samuri
    Member

    so it's the hub clearly titled 'freewheel hub' then?

    Sam
    Member

    That's not a fixed hub, you can't use a lockring anyhow.

    Sam
    Member

    Ive heard it said that the rotafix method of tightening the cog on the hub can do it sufficiently tighly to make a lock ring unnecessary…

    I can't see how that would make it any tighter than pedalling force tightening it on – in fact probably less so…

    samuri, sam – bought second hand on the understanding it was 'fixed'. I am happy to keep the wheel as I can run it SS freewheel but I bought it to go fixed so wondering if I can use it for fixed anyway. No, this isn't the plan I had originally.

    john_l
    Member

    surely those are lockrings on the righthand threads in those pics? There's just no cog.

    MrSmith
    Member

    Track riders don't use a lockring because they use such a big gear, they don't have enough leverage to unscrew it with leg power – therefore it's unnecessary.

    the main reason is to make cog changing easier and quicker. you will be changing cogs often if you are switching between disciplines that require different gear inches or if you are going to a different velodrome. for example calshot has a maximum GI in the 80's because of the short straights. a gear used here would be too low for herne hill.

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Subscriber

    A lockring is a l/h thread with a smaller diameter than the r/h sprocket thread. And there are at least 2 different sizes of lockring. Mine is Campag, which is different to the one I bought from my LBS.

    PQ – I'm still using the campag one you lent me, thanks.

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Use lots of Loctite and tell the wife you love her before every ride.

    Sam
    Member

    John, they are only on the fixed hubs. The lockring thread is a smaller diameter and left hand threaded – so that as the cog backs up against it the lockring tightens.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    sam – I believe you get better leverage by rotating the rim by hand than you do by rotating the crank by and so the sprocket by gearing.

    samuri
    Member

    sam – I believe you get better leverage by rotating the rim by hand than you do by rotating the crank by and so the sprocket by gearing.

    While this may be true from a workshop perspective, there's no way you could apply anywhere near the same force that you could by pounding on the pedals up a hill.

    I'll fix a cog to a hub by taking it out for a quick sharp ride first with plenty of sprints, ensuring I do no back pedalling, then grease the lockring up good and proper and fit that.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    While this may be true from a workshop perspective, there's no way you could apply anywhere near the same force that you could by pounding on the pedals up a hill.

    physicist to the thread please! time to break out the calculator!

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    Track riders don't use a lockring because they use such a big gear, they don't have enough leverage to unscrew it with leg power – therefore it's unnecessary.

    Lockrings on the track are recommended but not compulsory. Although there's a couple of events/velodromes that specify you must use a lockring. Riding off-road without one is pushing the boundaries of sanity and safety.

    Riding off-road without one is pushing the boundaries of sanity and safety.

    Sounds perfect for me then.

    samuri
    Member

    I'm fairly certain gentlemen who can get a bike up to 50mph have enough power to unscrew an unlocked cog no matter what gearing they're using.

    joemarshall
    Member

    While this may be true from a workshop perspective, there's no way you could apply anywhere near the same force that you could by pounding on the pedals up a hill.

    Your cranks are 170mm, compared to a 311mm radius wheel, which is 1.8 times the leverage. Then you're going through a gearing system, say if you're using a 70 inch gear, that's another 2.5 times the leverage. Using the wheel as a lever, you'd have a total of 4.6 times the amount of force. Are your legs really capable of applying 4 and a half times as much force as your arms? That may be true, although I'm not 100% sure of it. Using your arms would have a bonus in that it would be a nice smooth application of force, so you're much less likely to break things either – like when you use a scaffold pipe to remove stuck cranks, it always seems much less bad for them than using a hammer on the allen key.

    Joe

    samuri
    Member

    You're talking about smooth application of force, while my legs may or may not be capable of applying 4 times the force (I'm fairly sure they are), in a smooth manner, I know for a fact they can deliver many more times that in an explosive burst, which is how the power is delivered when you properly mash the pedals.

    You're quite welcome to try and turn a wheel backwards while I try and ride it forwards. 😉

    tomlevell
    Member

    JDI.

    What's the worst that can happen to a £150 hub as the cog starts unscrewing?

    A fool and his money and all that.

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