Reopening schools question.

Rather depends on flexibility of child care or parents work for the non school days.

It does, not sure how that works either tbh. Must be semi functional though as its what we have now. Perhaps there’s some scope for government support on that side?

Rather depends on flexibility of child care or parents work for the non school days.

Same applies to teachers, with no before or after school clubs, we cant both work on the same day.

so teachers, their families, the kids themselves and their families all have to be put at risk?

To be blunt yes, everyone will be at some of level risk. The question is the level of risk vs the other factors, in this case kids education, the economy, kids at risk being at home. It’s not a simple situation, health and safety rarely is, it’s always a judgment on a sliding scale of risk vs severity vs consequences of not undertaking the activity associated with hazard.

Every day teachers are at risk of abuse, violence (from kids and parents), tranmissable diseases, road accidents on the commute to work etc. Life isn’t risk free.

As AA points out societal structure needs everything to work or very little of it works, no after school clubs means some teachers have to work reduced hours, resulting in reduced timetables, meaning many parents can’t effectively return to the workplace.

I don’t see reduced classroom time as viable, kids have already lost 3 months of schooling, we’re constantly told how important all school time is and even missing 2 weeks can damage a child’s education. Can’t see science, DT, PE or even foreign languages being taught well remotely, even with the best teaching in the world remote learning isn’t as effective as face to face. Also when are the teachers going to find the time to teach all the reduced size classes and still prepare high quality on line learning? Teachers class room time won’t reduce under social distancing, just the number of pupils they teach at the same time.

Also when are the teachers going to find the time to teach all the reduced size classes and still prepare high quality on line learning? Teachers class room time won’t reduce under social distancing, just the number of pupils they teach at the same time.

Surely the first requires the same amount of input as the second? Halving the class size to maintain social distancing means you need twice the teachers? I wouldn’t propose teachers prepare on line learning – there are plenty of providers already, I’d suggest the government can supplement that and work towards building it into the curriculum.

Our schools are set up to deliver face to face learning currently. I’m suggesting that building in at least the potential for some structured offsite study would be useful. Clearly this would have helped over the last few months, and will help further should covid prove more stubborn to defeat.

Can’t see science, DT, PE or even foreign languages being taught well remotely, even with the best teaching in the world remote learning isn’t as effective as face to face.

But it is more effective than no teaching at all.

I wouldn’t propose teachers prepare on line learning – there are plenty of providers already

Not sure who all these online providers are. My experience is that they either want paying or don’t meet the curricular needs.

ajantom
Subscriber

We’ve still got a death rate of about 250 per day, whereas other EU countries are under 50…BUT we’re trying to come out if lockdown at the same pace as them.

Yup. Gavin Williamson points to Denmark as proof it can work. Denmark had 3 deaths and 36 new cases today.

Stumpyjon

Are you prepared to take that risk? Without the possibility of mitigation?

If I was a teacher there is no way I would be going back and I would be taking action under health and safety act due to the lack of proper safety measures

It’s very easy for you to say others should take risks

Not sure who all these online providers are. My experience is that they either want paying or don’t meet the curricular needs.

Some are already embedded – certainly at my daughters school things like Mathletics have been in place for at least 5 years. Of course they’ll want paying – no reason to believe that education would be exempt from the increased costs of the pandeminc. Certainly, they won’t be aligned to the curriculum yet, again no reason to believe that’s impossible.

I will state the obvious;

If there are subsequent waves, schools will shut again. Schools cannot double in size, should full class sizes prove a significant vector. If there are localised outbreaks around schools, track and trace would expect teachers and pupils to isolate.

All of these things say to me that working on distance learning is unbelievably worthwhile at the moment. The alternative – to expect that normal service will resume and continue, so no changes are needed – just seems really optimistic to me.

Some are already embedded – certainly at my daughters school things like Mathletics have been in place for at least 5 years. Of course they’ll want paying – no reason to believe that education would be exempt from the increased costs of the pandeminc. Certainly, they won’t be aligned to the curriculum yet, again no reason to believe that’s impossible.

I will state the obvious;

If there are subsequent waves, schools will shut again. Schools cannot double in size, should full class sizes prove a significant vector. If there are localised outbreaks around schools, track and trace would expect teachers and pupils to isolate.

All of these things say to me that working on distance learning is unbelievably worthwhile at the moment. The alternative – to expect that normal service will resume and continue, so no changes are needed – just seems really optimistic to me.

That all sounds brilliant.

It would require quite a bit of investment and a coordinated, joined up approach from the top down. Neither of these are things that tend to happen in education. In my experience what tends to happen is minimal investment, vague guidance and an expectation that individual schools and individual teachers will just somehow make it work.

ONline learning has been the issue with my sons school.

For context the school is small (90 pupils total across all school years). In order to support key worker children 1 teacher has had to come in one day a week each. No teachers have been required in on a Friday. All the other teachers have been home during this time.

We have had no support in terms of home learning other than the occasional task on class dojo. Other than that is is expected to through the Oak Learning Academy. Each lesson on Oak is supposed to be one hour. Our son completes them in 20 mins (he is 6).

If his beaver colony can organise a weekly zoom meeting with fun activities I struggle to understand why the school cannot provide similar with the teaching staff being at home. Yes they also have to look after their children but this is no different to anyone else home working and looking after children. Doing a weekly zoom call for an hour as a bare minimum is not a difficult thing to try and achieve. Some children would not attend for various reasons but it shouldn’t be based on those who don’t want to attend pulling it down.

In any case the school has delayed opening for at least 1 week (8th June) until the infection rate has come down further (based on the Sage report).

Doing a weekly zoom call for an hour as a bare minimum is not a difficult thing to try and achieve

We have been told no live video as its a “child protection issue”.

We have been told no live video as its a “child protection issue”

Yep, same here.
Brownies, Rainbows, Guides, Beavers, etc. are a different matter.
You’ve already signed up, it’s smaller groups, 2 leaders on video as a matter of course, etc.

We’re doing Loom videos for classes now – so at least they see my face (lucky them!) But no live video.

If Scouts and Guides, music teachers – and my son’s 6th Form college – can figure out how to run Zoom meetings around child protection issues, no reason a school can’t.

Has to be a parent around. Kids must be dressed, not in PJs. Kids must be in a communal room, not their bedroom.

My daughter wasn’t fussed by Zoom Guide meetings – but just seeing different friends in a different way has made a huge difference to her mood, and schools could offer that as well

Has to be a parent around. Kids must be dressed, not in PJs. Kids must be in a communal room, not their bedroom.

All well and good with younger kids, as parents will be around to supervise, and older ones as they’re over 16.

Unfortunately secondary school kids fall into an age where they might well be home alone during the day, so no adult present.
Also some of out students can’t really be trusted to be sensible in class in a school setting, let alone on line!
Language, inappropriate images, etc. would all be a concern.
There are those who would join just to disrupt and offend.

There is very little positivity in terms of anything relating to Covid. It is always just a battle between the government saying yes you shall do this and other people saying no (not just teachers). This isn’t going away – we need to start learning to live with it and find ways to work with it in a positive way.

At the moment all I see is a lot of people saying no but not suggesting ways in which we can improve this experience. We have had 10 weeks of it now. There is no reason why support could not have improved instead of relying on someone else to pre-record a class for you. If you don’t want to open the schools because of the risk fine, but please come up with positive ways to help support the children and the parents.

(this isn’t aimed at anyone on this thread by the way but more the level of support I feel our school isn’t providing).

If you don’t want to open the schools because of the risk fine, but please come up with positive ways to help support the children and the parents.

The government closed the schools, not teachers have a think on that for a bit and then re read your post.

There are those who would join just to disrupt and offend.

Then they get thrown off the meeting. No reason to not try something for the majority just because of a minority.

While I agree we all need to find ways to work around it, that needs to be when it is safe to do so. As a frontline child protection social worker, MrsMC has been in and out of houses and transporting clients in the car throughout the crisis, armed with nothing more than hand sanitiser. Two of the schools she deals with are shut due to positive cases. Even she thinks we are not ready to relax the way we are about to.

The government closed the schools, not teachers have a think on that for a bit and then re read your post.

And now the government had said that schools should reopen but teachers are saying no.

Edit: and yet again nothing positive in your response.

Then they get thrown off the meeting. No reason to not try something for the majority just because of a minority.

Yep, but just that knowledge in advance, and the fact that parental supervision can’t be guaranteed, means the school can’t do it.
It’s shit, I agree, and I’d be happy to, but child protection and other legal reasons preclude it.

And now the government had said that schools should reopen but teachers are saying no.

Unfortunately the govt ordered schools to close with no real guidance as how to proceed, and now they’ve told schools to open with no real guidance.

There needs to be some sort of centralised plan, worked out and agreed by educational and health care experts. But we all know how out current leaders feel about experts don’t we.

The whole thing is a mess.
I’m a chem teacher at a Scottish secondary with high poverty rating (30% in lowest 10%). We rolled out a £16million iPad project earlier this academic year so all kids have one (pretty tightly locked down to educational apps which need to be approved, even YouTube is blocked).
So you’d think we’d be in a good place. Nope not a bit of it we’re hamstrung by educational “leaders” who are too scared to lead. We are still doing the paperwork (annual reviews as usual, dept improvement plan). We are sending out work on SharePoint, teams and showmyhomework. Parents complain they get too many notifications about incomplete work and instead of saying that perhaps that wouldn’t happen if the kids did it staff are told to stop. My junior S1-S3 classes have 25% of parents and pupils engaging with work. 50% clicking to show as seen but no returns (yes we’ll done Charlie you completed one 20 question test in 9weeks and it took you 56seconds) and 25% nothing heard from in 9weeks, vulnerable kids.
We go back on the 10/06 no kids until 11/08.
I’m not looking forward to it, but I need to get back because my kids(pupils) are missing so much work/safety.
But here’s the rub. 3 people in the school population will have a highly infectious possibly deadly virus. They will be in a room with 8 others for 50minutes after which time at least 1 of those people will move to another group. (Given the demographic and stories in local rag/Facebook there is little or no adherence to guidelines)
Because of this I won’t be able to sit and have a cuppa with my parents and they won’t be able to hold their grandkids. Yes we know teachers are lazy and only work 3weeks a year at the easiest job in the world, start at 10 finish at 2 and have massive holidays and lottery win pensions but you know I’ll swap you. Today, now happily.
I care about each of my pupils, I know each of my pupils and I’m worried about each of my pupils. From the advanced higher kid who wants to be a doctor to the 14yo son of a mother with substance issues and 6younger siblings. So you know what try to understand that we’re worried about their and our safety and health.

To long to read? You’re right it’s overpaid baby sitting.

^^^ very well said.

I’m not asking for babysitting. My son can stay at home. I am asking for support in providing him an education during this time. If some parents don’t want to do work with their kids then fine but don’t assume that no one wants to and therefore these children should suffer because there isn’t any support provided.

Im not a teacher. I don’t know how to teach. I appreciate it is difficult job. But, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a difficult job that I am trying to find new ways of working, whilst still helping my son continue with his education.

And now the government had said that schools should reopen but teachers are saying no.

Edit: and yet again nothing positive in your response.

Are they? Unions are saying no, but all schools I know locally were planning to reopen as per Govt original dates, albeit on limited timetables. In our secondary I’m not aware of a single member of staff who has refused to support.

It would require quite a bit of investment and a coordinated, joined up approach from the top down. Neither of these are things that tend to happen in education. In my experience what tends to happen is minimal investment, vague guidance and an expectation that individual schools and individual teachers will just somehow make it work.

This. The Government has issued bucket loads of guidance, on a weekly basis. Headteachers can’t keep up (I work in secondary and personally know 2 primary heads). So many things in schools could be centralised which would save hours of staff time in schools and free up time to spend with students. I work in safeguarding and every year the Govt releases new guidance at the end of August, expecting us to have new policies in place reflecting said guidance from the start of September. In fact Govt could write a generic safeguarding policy that all schools could adapt to their local setting – meaning greater consistency and less paperwork (and yes I have said this t the DfE!).

I’m suggesting that building in at least the potential for some structured offsite study would be useful.

There will still be kids at home (most at first, those with vulnerable or infected household members later) so this is still essential, and requires funding and staff availability to manage.

That all sounds brilliant.

It would require quite a bit of investment and a coordinated, joined up approach from the top down.

Yes, similar to what the treasury announced was needed to protect business and the economy. At no point has there been a “hands up, c’est la vie” approach there, why should we accept that in education? Please note, absolutely not bashing teachers here, I totally agree it needs to be driven and supported from the top. But as a parent, I’m not going to happily accept second rate education or significant health risks without making a fuss.

Are they? Unions are saying no, but all schools I know locally were planning to reopen as per Govt original dates, albeit on limited timetables. In our secondary I’m not aware of a single member of staff who has refused to support.

Maybe it is the negative portrayal in the press but our headteacher has been very negative and almost implied that we should not want our children to be at school and at every step of the way has been negative about the whole thing.

We cant keep waiting for the government to sort this shit out. It isn’t going to happen. So yes I am going to fight to get my child some sort of education and do the best by them. That goes for everything – everyone has to work together to solve these issues. Just waiting for the government isn’t going to help.

our headteacher has been very negative and almost implied that we should not want our children to be at school

You need more than positivity when looking to keep your staff, and the wider community, safe.

I think we need to be pragmatic about school premises as well – some are tiny Victorian village schools with 50 pupils some are new build academies with thousands. There can’t be “one size fits all” government guidance.

As I understand it, guidance has been issued to schools to try and help them find a solution to fit their local premises, staff and pupils. It will work better for some than others to allow some sort of partial reopening. I doubt any school has decided not to even try.

But best practice for online learning should be shared and rolled out, as we’ve had to do with work. That sadly means that more vulnerable kids may miss out, which is why they need to be the priority to go in school where possible.

@robbo1234biking All teachers I know are putting work up and if there are some that aren’t without a good reason then that’s a school problem but you’re assuming because you don’t get work no one is.

If some parents don’t want to do work with their kids then fine but don’t assume that no one wants to and therefore these children should suffer because there isn’t any support provided.

We’re putting out work with sometimes 10% return but are still putting out the next week’s AND chasing pastoral with info about those who don’t.
A lot of us are suffering with daily problems and it’s new but, the same as in teaching, I bet there’s a few in your workplace/career that are not pulling their weight.

Anyway, I set my S1,S2 work half an hour ago so I can do a recovery ride (on it now 77W and 90 cadence) but I’ll be sitting at my computer sorting stuff for Higher from 0900. So I’m sorry that it’s not working for you. Perhaps a question to teacher/HT asking about it (you may have not seen an email) failing that BBC bitesize daily lessons are quite good with a timetable set up to change things around.

Have a good day and we’ll all try to understand each others situation.

@onehundredthidiot

That is a good point. My experiences are isolated to only the school my son attends.

No work has been set since the first week. The headteacher has checked in once when she wanted to know how many people may want to send there children back to school. They ask us to upload work to Class Dojo but then you get no feedback. We have had no contact from our childs teacher. No wonder he is loosing enthusiasm when they don’t even comment saying good work.

We are working through the Oak Academy Lessons but even a ten minute phone call once a week would show him some engagement. As I stated in one post above – it is a small school. The teachers are required to attend one day per week in order to support key workers childrens. Therefore, they have more time available to support us parents who are home schooling. That is my issue with this. It is a local one and I am not trying to paint all school teachers with the same brush.

And now the government had said that schools should reopen but teachers are saying no.

Edit: and yet again nothing positive in your response.

Wrong again, most schools are re opening in line with government guidance. Others are being kept shut by either local authorities or academy trusts. The fact that you just want to blame teachers shows that you a fallen hook line and sinker for the governments plan to get idiots to “blame the teachers”.
I would have responded to you earlier but I was working and if you dont find a few facts about why schools are not doing video conferencing lessons positive thats hardly my fault but I expect as a teacher you’ll just blindly blame me anyway, crack on son.

Hitting my head against a brick wall. I haven’t blamed you but twist the narrative how you want. in your words ‘crack on son’. Very condescending – well done.

Very condescending – well done.

Thanks, like I said crack on, you are doing great.

Read my post 4 above that said that my experiences are only valid for my sons school.

Read my post 4 above that said that my experiences are only valid for my sons school.

Well moaning at me wont help will it, how would you like me to be more positive, it would appear that comment was aimed directly at me not your sons teacher who may not even be a user of this chat bored.

Well moaning at me wont help will it, how would you like me to be more positive, it would appear that comment was aimed directly at me not your sons teacher who may not even be a user of this chat bored

Apologies if it came across directly at you. Just frustration at the situation that was poorly worded.

The issue with schools is not bending over backwards trying to somehow get kids back for the fag-end of the 2019/20 year, but working out how they will deliver the autumn and winter term curriculae if we are well into wave 2 in September and back in full lockdown.

Schools need the funding and help now so they can operate as a remote learning hub from next term onwards.

It could be that the relaxation of lockdown is now aiming to bring forward wave 2 into July and August so it doesn’t overlap into the flu season, of course. 🙂

Apologies if it came across directly at you.

Apology accepted, its a tough and worrying time for all which is why my “direct style” is more spiky than usual.

The issue with schools is not bending over backwards trying to somehow get kids back for the fag-end of the 2019/20 year, but working out how they will deliver the autumn and winter term curriculae if we are well into wave 2 in September and back in full lockdown.

If that happens I’m resigning and getting a job as a tesco driver!!!