Reopening schools question.

2 dead vulnerable carers from COVID-19 at a local school already but that’s a small price to pay

The mine wouldn’t be safe without the canaries.

paul0

your heavy and repeated sarcasm can make it a bit tricky to decipher the actual point you’re trying to make.

Wits end here….

EDIT just re-read it and still mystified. “Illegal to get tested” …. eh ??

If someone is told to self isolate they can’t leave the house which for kids is except if they have symptoms to go and get tested. So if they are asymptomatic it’s essentially illegal to get tested on a government test unless they lie and say they have symptoms (which might be an offense – who knows).

But even if they do and have 5 negative tests they must still self isolate so a huge disinsentive to get tested privately.

kelvin

The thing is, this is exactly what was promised… wide scale testing for schools, together with a tier system to cope with local outbreaks identified via testing… neither have happened, schools have just been left to cope with the spread. And by “cope”, I mean pretend it’s not happening, and just watch staff and pupil levels dwindle.

billoddie

They have only been isolating close contacts, generally form groups, though kids are mixing form groups in streamed subjects.

Last week they sent all of Year 9 home as they didn’t have enough teachers to staff the whole school. This week they managed 2 days before sending Yr8 home.

It’s abundantly clear that the Gov have decided that allowing schools to close would be deemed “failure”.

As Kelvin said they promised and utterly failed to deliver the testing to even hope to have schools return. As I said way back I don’t think they ever could but they promised it anyway….but under-delivered hugely on even what I thought they might manage. (abnd I wasn’t expecting a lot)

Jnr’s school have made zero efforts, threats to send children home who wear masks in class…. forcing kids to touch each other … and the counltess notification emaiuls about how thewy have more cases but noone else needs to self isolate….

Then Sunday they sent another email … a whole bunch (number not disclosed but “at least one asymptomatic”) of kids had tested positive. This was worded like a new discovery …. like they hadn’t realised this was the case all along. (and what does “at least one” mean)

Schools are told what to do by PHE.

Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg….

and what does “at least one” mean

A non-zero number of people.

dismissed at Nuremberg

You say that, but schools that act beyond guidance are being slapped down with threats of legal action.

Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg….

Do try and grow up

You say that, but schools that act beyond guidance are being slapped down with threats of legal action.

Going along the same theme that’s what the Nazi’s said about their families etc. and was also probably true. Just following orders hasn’t been a valid defense for decades especially when it’s knowingly killing people.

This threatened legal action doesn’t apply to expensive private schools …

but ultimately this is manslaughter, heads know they have a huge number of asymptomatic kids and that some of them have vulnerable carers or siblings but they threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.

They are messing with semantics … just like I said in another post where I said it would become increasingly important. It’s like someone with HIV saying they don’t have AIDS so it’s OK to have unprotected sex.

A non-zero number of people.

Perfect example…. pure semantics. Is it one or ten or 50 ??
It’s a very strange term IMHO to have used.

threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.

Exactly where is this happening?

Exactly where is this happening?

We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.

but ultimately this is manslaughter, heads know they have a huge number of asymptomatic kids and that some of them have vulnerable carers or siblings but they threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.

What school has threaten to fine people and take legal action? Over what?

We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.

In English?

We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.

Eh? I was referring to fines for absence. Our LA won’t go anywhere near fines this year, not that we want to.

Eh? I was referring to fines for absence.

We got sent a “reminder” of the absence policy …

Our LA won’t go anywhere near fines this year, not that we want to.

That’s another story…. will they actually issue them and if they did what happens if you refuse to pay up? Are they willing to go to court or not, I suspect not but the threat is there?

The wording was in one PDF and something like “we would like to take the opportunity and remind parents of the schools absence policy we have enclosed” no mention of special circumstances.

The quarantine information (pinned up min kitchen) has
“We have travelled to a different area” the answer is (in bold caps) DO NOT TAKE UNAUTHORISED LEAVE DURING TERM TIME

e.g.
“A non-zero number of people”.

This to me doesn’t sound like everyday English … of the sort used to inform parents.
Quite honestly it’s the sort of language I expect to see in contract’s that gets spotted and thrown out.

In English?

Our school, comms are not written in “English”, indeed I don’ think the COVID ones are actually written by the school rather they are written for them in deliberately vague language.

e.g.
“A non-zero number of people”.

Do you honestly think that is clear English to inform parents?

Do try and grow up

You realise this is killing vulnerable people …

Quite honestly it’s like saying you didn’t realise where the trains were going but you’d only heard rumours.

You realise this is killing vulnerable people …

It is I am very aware, I am in a school every day. The schools are not responsible for government policy. You trying to make out I am something akin to a Nazi murderer because I work in a school is laughable childish nonsense.

Steve.
I get the gist of your argument and where your coming from.
I think your going too far now with your comparisons. And it’s starting to look like a personal attack, which isn’t on.
Would be worth going for a ride, or something little that, for a bit.

It is I am very aware, I am in a school every day. The schools are not responsible for government policy. You trying to make out I am something akin to a Nazi murderer because I work in a school is laughable childish nonsense.

No I’m just pointing out that those people that herded people onto trains had all the same reasons and they weren’t murderers they were mostly people with families that had consequences to them not following orders and had they objected as individuals they would just be replaced with someone else. These conscripts and reluctant soldiers didn’t make the rules either and the Gestapo and Allgemeine Schutzstaffel were there to ensure compliance.

I think your going too far now with your comparisons. And it’s starting to look like a personal attack, which isn’t on.

It’s absolutely not personal and sorry to AA if that seems to be the case… if only AA was the only person following instructions they know to be incorrect because they have to follow instructions but this is endemic in the UK today.
Nothing to do with the current epidemic it seems that huge numbers of people are “just doing their job and not asking the wrong questions” and those that do get shat on. Senior civil servants resigning when they are told to break the law whilst others flourish because they happily go against their beliefs.

This coinciding with the epidemic is perhaps poor luck….
We have members of Sage being told what they can say and not say as “scientific advice”
Councils doing what the government tell them or else…
Schools doing what PHE tell them or else…. etc.

Over a decade ago I remember my friends father who escaped Nazi Germany as a boy talking about both the madness of the time and how he saw it returning.
Sadly his perspective was that we as the human race have spent longer like this than not. He recounted McCarthyism in his youth in the US, Stalinism in the Soviet union and literally dozens of historical examples.. including his own exclusion when he married a non-Jew.

I think I disagreed at the time but I’m sadly and reluctantly coming to think perhaps he was correct and this is perhaps a natural state for humans… and as he put it something along the lines of “people are just more comfortable acting like frightened sheep”

So sorry AA, it’s not personal … almost everyone in most professions are doing the same thing.
All you can do is try not to tell direct lies… try not too hard to chase up kids who don’t turn up… just don’t try and defend policies and facts you know to be a lie. At the least you can say “I’ve been told I must say” or similar.

So sorry AA, it’s not personal

Then stop equating me to a nazi gassing Jews you colossal ****!

Everybody chill.

Steve, complainants about schools/teachers “following orders” can also be levelled at parents. We took the difficult decision to keep our number two child at home today, as there are many kids in his year testing positive, and all his friends have been told to stay home. If you have school age children, there is no point calling for school staff to go against government instruction, while we refuse to do so ourselves.

Then stop equating me to a nazi gassing Jew you colossal ****!

I didn’t .. reread what I wrote.
The Schutzstaffel (SS) were the ones who did and oversaw the gassing, the Nazi’s didn’t trust the common Germans. The common Germans were just regular scared people like us. Poor sods caught up in something they couldn’t control. The SS were the truly deranged believers.

Perhaps you didn’t make that distinction … or I pre-assumed knowledge. To me there is a HUGE distinction between those who were gleefully gassing Jews (and many others) and those who were forced and coerced.

It’s a shit position to be in… you didn’t choose that position nor make up the rules…

All I am asking is that you do not deliberately lie to parents or if you are forced to do
this then at least try and convey the “this is what I was told to tell you” when you know it to be untrue or misleading.

Kelvin

Steve, complainants about schools/teachers “following orders” can also be levelled at parents. We took the difficult decision to keep our number two child at home today, as there are many kids in his year testing positive, and all his friends have been told to stay home. If you have school age children, there is no point calling for school staff to go against government instruction, while we refuse to do so ourselves.

I completely agree….
Nor is this only schools or education…. (see the thread where the STWer is being told to send his kids put in isolation into childcare)

Put aside schools for now…. we are seeing this at every level. The chief nurse being excluded from press conferences, SAGE being told what they can and can’t say…. it’s a whole shitstorm with the birds at the top pooping downwards and pushing the poo downwards.

As I said months(?) ago the whole thing will get blamed on the teachers… I’m not blaming them I’m simply saying only tow the line so far… if a parent asks then say “what I’ve been told to tell you is ….”

Email from eldest Oddie’s Comp.  12 new cases today, 11 in Year 9!  That’s a new high! Unsurprisingly they have told Yr 9 to self isolate for 2 weeks.

School has a sixth form too, so has about 1200 pupils.

Rather than start a new thread…

Been hearing rumours that our SLT aren’t expecting to reopen to all students until Easter now.
🙁

Believable. I am on the Shielding list. If I get my vaccination mid February, I won’t have developed the fullest immunity possible until 2 weeks later. That will be the start of March. Add in time for slippage and time to see numbers fall in a sustained way and I think the earliest we can resume in school is after Easter.

I think the earliest we can resume in school is after Easter.

13 kids attending local primary school out of the usual 30’ish kids. Teacher expected to teach those in front of her whilst also juggling the rest of class via Teams. Similar numbers across all year groups. I’d say school has already resumed ! (My daughters secondary school appears much tougher on allowing them in)

[this is North Yorkshire, England]

I’m expecting Easter, tbh.

Village primary school running at just under 50% full according to a friend working there. Secondary schools well down on that, but suspect a lot of older kids are home alone.

An email from assistant principle mentioned that easter was likely.
Also it been proposed in a meeting today that we work through the summer, as well as continue online learning now. Oh and we are to be subjected to regular online teaching check.

Nothing like being motivated.

Also it been proposed in a meeting today that we work through the summer, as well as continue online learning now

Where do you work? That sounds nuts.

Teacher expected to teach those in front of her whilst also juggling the rest of class via Teams

I assume this is England somewhere. The unions in Scotland have been really clear that shouldn’t be happening and in fact the authority I work in hasn’t even suggested it as they realise it’s totally unsustainable. It’s one or the other for us, supervising in the keyworker hubs or online teaching from home.

Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg….

PMSL at that.

17 pages to hit Godwins law.

National education charity here and we’re planning Easter for any significant work back in schools and early years settings.

September we’re still planning a few restrictions to be in place.

I think post Easter is likely, and probably right. Too many kids in school at the moment though, wifes secondary its mainly year 7, attendance drops rapidly from year 8 onwards. I know of at least one family who’ve sent their kids to school, he’s a self employed electrician who isn’t working, she works for a care home, as an accountant, she’s worked from home for months, still they’ve decided they are key workers. Definition needs to be properly reduced and policed to genuine key workers, NHS, blue light services, key council services, teachers and key support staff. Not going to happen though.

Definition needs to be properly reduced and policed to genuine key workers, NHS, blue light services, key council services, teachers and key support staff. Not going to happen though.

Seems to be a good bit tighter in Scotland,we’ve hardly got any kids in. 25 out of nearly 600 and teachers told they didn’t qualify if they were WFH.

We’ve got about 15% in (just under 150 out 1000 students).
More from ks3 obviously.

I know the school has been quite strict with the criteria.

My daughter’s primary on the other hand…. nearly 50% attending.
Quite a few suspect ‘key workers’.

Off the record whisper from our trust is also Easter to plan for any significant number of students back in school…

Expecting to be home schooling until Easter here.
Thankfully he is in year 1 so providing we keep up with stuff there shouldn’t be a significant impact.
Plus have found lots of educational apps that keep him happy. Just hope work stay understanding

Also it been proposed in a meeting today that we work through the summer, as well as continue online learning now

Where do you work? That sounds nuts.

I work in a FE college so they feel the need to keep apprentice programs running and catch up the full timer’s. 🤷

For those in primary, last year we had some key stage work books. Did a few pages of each, some art, some cooking and play in the breaks.
Was easier being able to dip in and out and luckly my son can work on his own for a bit.