Reopening schools question.

No positives for us yet a week and a half in (a week with the whole school back), but relatively large numbers of students absent waiting for test results (5 or 6 in my year group so 30 or so in the whole school). Only one staff member in the same boat so far. We serve a deprived community in an ‘enhanced’ local authority and border onto an area of concern so I think we’re lucky so far…

Can’t see us getting through another week without a positive case somewhere…

Had a good chat with my union today who said staff and students absolutely can wear masks during lessons according to section 44 of the health and safety act. The law protects us so we can wear PPE using our own judgement. Since the government states 2m distancing, or 1m+; this means when you have to get closer (less than 2m) to a student you should be using PPE. Not just washing hands. They said they will support me if my college asks me to remove my mask. Not planning on wearing it all the time but will when I cant keep 2m from everyone.

To the parents who dont work in schools and colleges, your kids are being exposed to hundreds of other kids. The bubble system is ignored in our place and there is no enforcement of social distancing. I’ve witnessed some staff not care and have a 1 to 1 chat with students less than 1m away with no PPE or shielding.

No explosion of cases in Scottish schools it would appear.
Thankfully.

No explosion of cases in Scottish schools it would appear.
Thankfully.

I thought cases in Scotland were on the rise? Might not be showing up in schools but the kids could be spreading the virus to parents etc.

Not planning on wearing it all the time but will when I cant keep 2m from everyone.

I know of one teacher taking this approach, and been challenged by their head for doing so. And I know a teacher at another school who has had complaints from parents for not wearing a mask when working with pupils and less than 2m from them. Teachers are stuck, not being able to do right. Everyone’s interpretation of what should be happening in schools is different, which is no surprise when national guidelines are open to interpretation. And then you get ministers saying that our schools are “Covid safe”… how?

Teachers are stuck, not being able to do right.

Normal!

I had a robust discussion with line management. They were saying we were making schools covid safe, they would not admit that we were just reducing risk. I know that they were just towing the party line but that’s not acceptable. The high heid yins are surrounded, as in a lot of things, by yes men/people who don’t questions.

So parents and kids hear safe therefore don’t understand the silly wipe down/mask/other rules.

No explosion of cases in Scottish schools it would appear.
Thankfully.

I thought cases in Scotland were on the rise? Might not be showing up in schools but the kids could be spreading the virus to parents etc.

Just a thought, but if the evidence says that most spread is currently via social interactions and not in schools – hence the rule of six – whyTF don’t they produce some data to back up the decisions?

Sat in my room waiting for tutor group to arrive, teacher next door coughing a lot, has he been tested, I dont know. Kids walking about coughing, have they been tested, I dont know. Its quite stressful tbh and I’m a fit healthy person who isnt overly worried.

Kid in tutor group off with “chesty cough, not covid” have they been tested? Doubt it unless they did it and gotvresults over weekend

Son of teacher in school off with a “cough”. Said teacher in school.

First positive Covid test at my Son’s school, it’s to be expected really, it’s a huge school.

Although they’re being very coy about it, Son reports that they’re now enforcing mask rules, bubbles etc and not just ‘encouraging’ them and they’re distributing the masks they said they’d distribute when they first went back.

Thankfully the R rate etc is still very low in our area so there’s a chance we might just pull this off.

I’m wearing a mask if I move among the students in class, but removing it when I’m teaching from the front. I’m staying at the front as much as possible.

We were on masks in corridors anyway.

To add to the first KS3 pupil, now we’ve had a positive test in Yr11, so they’re out for 2 weeks. Arse.

Most frustrating and anger inducing thing? Both kids (unrelated families) had been sent into school by parents after they’d had tests done, and the school was only informed when the tests came back positive. **** idiots!

Yep, same in my wife’s school, parents sent kids in despite there being confirmed cases at home and kids showing symptoms. Years 9 and 10 now home for 14 days as well as 1 year 7 class, plus teachers. Schools are going to close by default unless something changes.

Most frustrating and anger inducing thing? Both kids (unrelated families) had been sent into school by parents after they’d had tests done

Similar with our school, two year groups now sent home to self isolate for 14 days because kids sent to school when someone in the household had symptoms.

I’ll leave others to comment on this. Personally, I’m fuming about it…

[Thanks to @karamballes.]

Let’s be quite clear: this is an outright lie – @educationgovuk

“no additional funding, no extra staff & no temporary classrooms” = “no smaller class sizes & no ‘strict social distancing’ …”

It’s either deliberate deceit or dangerous delusion. pic.twitter.com/Af0BI0FCAl

— @NEUpresident (@neupresident) October 18, 2020

My year 9 daughter has had another kid test positive in her year group today.
Last month she had to isolate as she was in the same classroom as another kid tested positive.
I can only see the numbers increasing.
Half term can’t come soon enough.

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/10/10/breaking-proof-govt-has-told-track-and-trace-agents-not-to-trace-contacts-of-school-staff-or-pupils-or-pass-details-to-local-health-teams/

I keep poking my ‘germ bags‘ pupils at arms length with a metre stick

It’s skwarkbox though, so take with a tonne of salt.

https://fullfact.org/health/schools-contact-tracing-not-escalate/

Seen some reporting that schools are now being advised by the DfE not to report further positive cases in a school to them after the first one.

From our local experience, the schools are left to identify pupils who have been in close contact with the one who tests positive, and then tells them to isolate. At my daughter’s school, four cases in a year group meant it was easier to send the whole year group home.

Yr7 to 11 is a worrying figure.
The yr12 to 24 is stoodents and well reported on.
Hmmm

Is Year 7-11 due to school, or outside school? Other youth activities/sports, hanging around with mates, generally being a teenager kind of stuff.

Other youth activities/sports

Don’t think much of this has started up yet? Our school is rigorously running bubbles, but students within them are in close contact in classrooms and corridors – it’s inevitable. As a member of staff walking across site it’s impossible to keep over 1m at times.

Don’t think much of this has started up yet?

Scouts, BB’s, Bike Club, Air Cadets, Football, Golf are all up and running here.

Is Year 7-11 due to school, or outside school? Other youth activities/sports, hanging around with mates, generally being a teenager kind of stuff.

Straw clutching? where else are they sat right next to loads of other kids in a poorly ventilated room for an hour?

Excellent Twitter thread comparing the government’s plans and stated approach when schools returned, to what is actually happening:

So, we revealed today that the school tiers are going down the drain. And not a soul made it beyond Tier 1 (of 4). How did this happen? If you can bear to relive it with me, I'll attempt to piece it all together… (1/16)

— Amy Gibbons (@tweetsbyames) November 24, 2020

Straw clutching? where else are they sat right next to loads of other kids in a poorly ventilated room for an hour?

You can’t catch the virus by sitting in an enclosed room… the statistics are clear… 100% of positive tests are made AFTER testing hence why our schools are being told to strongly advise against testing and continue to exclude kids who test negative despite being told not to get tested.

The virus can be best controlled by NOT testing…. especially in kids who are likely to be asymptomatic. 2 dead vulnerable carers from COVID-19 at a local school already but that’s a small price to pay to control the spread of testing and testing leads to more positive cases.

Straw clutching? where else are they sat right next to loads of other kids in a poorly ventilated room for an hour?

Nope, not straw clutching, but a trustee of a youth organisation with serious doubts that just because we were allowed to do face to face activities (prior to lockdown 2) that didn’t mean that we should.

Straw clutching? where else are they sat right next to loads of other kids in a poorly ventilated room for an hour?

Well I’ve heard a few stories recently of kids having sleepovers. One mother nearby apparently said, “She wanted it for her birthday so what could I do”… Say no? Thing is in each of those cases at least 2 parents have agreed.

Scouts, BB’s, Bike Club, Air Cadets, Football, Golf are all up and running here.

And just to confirm Matt’s not in some weird bubble of covid ignorance – that is the norm here (until Level 4 restrictions), and add Dance Classes, Swimming lessons, Art/Craft stuff etc too. From what I can see the level of Covid Secureness at those is variable – probably depending on the subjective views of those in charge locally.

We also let them meet outside (it’s amazing, it’s almost like the 80s when teenagers hung around the parks/streets!) but it’s bloody miserable weather so inevitably they will congregate where they can get some shelter – a bus shelter, under a bridge, someone’s garage… and all this is unsupervised (so don’t expect even notional social distancing or consistent mask-wearing), probably involving shouting/singing/laughing as kids should. And there’s definitely some illicit car-sharing going on too. Anecdotally those who have had to self isolate locally are mostly not the “at school contacts” but the out of school ones.

You can’t catch the virus by sitting in an enclosed room… the statistics are clear…

Eh?

continue to exclude kids who test negative despite being told not to get tested.

the public (and perhaps politicians) don’t want to hear that you should still isolate after a negative – and that’s not surprising 2 weeks in isolation for a whole family is a huge pita even if it’s not hurting you financially. That was the hysteria around testing in April – and its why PHE/DHSC were caught off guard on test capacity – they only wanted to test where there was a clinical need, but the public felt entitled to test because they believed it would free them up when it doesn’t.

100% of positive tests are made AFTER testing

Of course. They cant be made before testing.

The virus can be best controlled by NOT testing…. especially in kids who are likely to be asymptomatic

Oh. my. god.

That sounds like when Trump said to stop testing people so the number of cases go down.
Also, asymptomatic people can spread it.

> WHOOSH <

Eh?

Schools are SAFE, it’s impossible to catch SARS-COV-19 in a school.
This is why PHE keep telling the school no matter how many positive cases no need for anyone else in the same class to self isolate because they didn’t catch it in school and it’s impossible to do so.

Of course. They cant be made before testing.

> WHOOSH <

So how to control the spread of the virus?
If only there was a way of preventing kids testing positive?

and its why PHE/DHSC were caught off guard on test capacity – they only wanted to test where there was a clinical need, but the public felt entitled to test because they believed it would free them up when it doesn’t.

Yep because someone who tests negative twice, a week apart is obviously far more at risk of spreading this virus than someone who hasn’t been tested. Good British Common Sense… no need to “ask the scientists”

Wait.. hold on ….
If only there was a way of preventing kids testing positive?
What if most kids that contract SARS-Cov19 are asymptomatic …
What if we prevent them getting tested….

Oooohhhh we can make it illegal for them to get tested… what if we send them home to their family but don’t let them leave the house .. then they can’t go and get tested and if they can’t get tested then they can’t have the virus. Bish bosh ole fella… (or whatever choice of infantile language Boris uses to tell people)

Fortunately as with most of our governments incompetence there is a bit of a flaw….
They can ignore negative tests and pretend they are invalid but they can’t easily ignore positive ones and if you pay privately you can get tested at home without symptoms.

Hence why I now have an 11yr old sat in the next room… because a bunch of parents got asymptomatic kids tested….and surprise surprise lots tested positive and they had to close the year.
Luckily non of these kids had brothers or sisters that could possibly infected others before they got tested … oops.

One of the other schools got closed after some selfish grandparents who were also carers had the selfishness to get infected and pass the virus on top the school … I guess they won’t be prosecuted as they are dead but they obviously deserve what they got. The families are real **** they are claiming that the asymptomatic child was infected at school and infected the grandparents who had been isolating other than the grandchild going to school. Like seriously what tossers… don’t they realise schools are safe?

stevextc… your heavy and repeated sarcasm can make it a bit tricky to decipher the actual point you’re trying to make. especially if just dipping into the thread

EDIT just re-read it and still mystified. “Illegal to get tested” …. eh ??
Darn it, I swore I wouldn’t get drawn into this thread again..

The head of one local primary has been getting quite fruity with their language when it comes to being repeatedly refused tests for his pupils, while his staff are dropping like flies with positive tests.

The thing is, this is exactly what was promised… wide scale testing for schools, together with a tier system to cope with local outbreaks identified via testing… neither have happened, schools have just been left to cope with the spread. And by “cope”, I mean pretend it’s not happening, and just watch staff and pupil levels dwindle. They’re left with closing years and moving to mixed learning “as a result of positive tests” only after enough parents pay for testing for their kids after falling ill themselves… schools can’t act based on the widespread testing that hasn’t happened, or move through the tiers that the government set out, and the government then refused to actually let them use, and finally this week binned completely. Schools, their staff, their pupils, the family of pupils… all have been lied to and abandoned by this government.

And how about schools trying to shut early for Xmas, because they are very short staffed, pupils are receiving second rate learning at best because of that, and to give pupils and staff alike some time to isolate before the government sanctioned xmas get togethers? They’ve been told they can’t and… in stevextc speak… it’s illegal for them to take such a (common sense?) (science led?) (people first?) (joined up thinking) (grown up?) measure.

We seem to be getting letters, well emails, almost daily from my eldest’s comprehensive with news of another COVID positive.

They have only been isolating close contacts, generally form groups, though kids are mixing form groups in streamed subjects.

Last week they sent all of Year 9 home as they didn’t have enough teachers to staff the whole school.  This week they managed 2 days before sending Yr8 home.

It’s abundantly clear that the Gov have decided that allowing schools to close would be deemed “failure”.

Oh and at my youngest’s primary school they seem to have been having a bit a flair up in Yr3 but hardly any siblings/family members are getting tested apart from the the kid with symptoms.

They have only been isolating close contacts

Schools are told what to do by PHE.