Reopening schools question.

we all fit in one of two mindsets and Dweck decides what’s good and bad

Not necessarily good or bad, but different, and that we should encourage a growth mindset.

The pursuit of knowledge for the sake of only itself and not job advancement or status, etc. is a wonderful thing, and we should try our hardest to foster that in all young people.

From my understanding, she says that mindsets aren’t fixed.
The children that had fixed mindsets at 4 had just been brought up like that. It can be changed, and a more open view to learning encouraged.
It becomes more difficult as one gets older, and to change an adult’s fixed mindset is nigh on impossible, as shown by most STW threads, and most ‘discussions’ on social media 😉

A good example is a scientist who will change their views based on the most recent research and proofs. They have no problem being proved wrong as long as the science stands up.

Compare this to a flat-earther who will stick with their ‘theory’ in the face of scientific proof, and come up with ever more ludicrous proofs to back up their own view. They are fixed in their mindset, and nothing will change it.

So a semi u-turn on masks from Johnson

I suppose it’s better than nothing, he still seems scared to make a definite rule & stick to it

Why is it a semi u turn and not a full ubturn?

Too busy beating his chest about hymns and anthems to consider it at any length…

a_a, as it only applies to schools in ‘outbreak’ areas or if headteachers decide to go that route rather than a blanket rule.

So they’ve dumped the decision back onto schools, on the day the head of Ofqual is scapegoated to keep Williamson safe for sacrifice after the return to school fiasco.

Like to see schools enforce mask wearing, theres enough adults who dont seem to be able to wear one for 30 minutes shopping, good luck getting school kids to keep one on.

good luck getting school kids to keep one on

I dunno, if you can persuade 99% of pupils in a secondary school to keep something as utterly pointless as a tie on all day, mask wearing in the corridors should be easy enough to achieve. I’d like to see schools given funding to give kids masks and hand sanitiser this winter… or even better supplied with this basic kit they all need.

I dunno, if you can persuade 99% of pupils in a secondary school to keep something as utterly pointless as a tie on all day, mask wearing in the corridors should be easy enough to achieve. I’d like to see schools given funding to give kids masks and hand sanitiser this winter… or even better supplied with this basic kit they all need.

Totally agree about them needing the funding for the kit at schools.

The majority of kids, like the majority of adults, have been pretty compliant throughout the pandemic. Let’s hope it continues rather than always focusing on the minority.

good luck getting school kids to keep one on.

The pupils at my school (Scottish secondary) have for the most part been subdued and compliant. I don’t think there will be massive issues with getting them to wear masks.

A good example is a scientist who will change their views based on the most recent research and proofs. They have no problem being proved wrong as long as the science stands up.

To be pedantic that’s not strictly correct. A good scientist, or any truly rational individual will change their views based on the best research not the most recent.

To be pedantic that’s not strictly correct. A good scientist, or any truly rational individual will change their views based on the best research not the most recent

Yes, you’re right, I stand corrected.
(See what I did there? 😁)

To be pedantic that’s not strictly correct. A good scientist, or any truly rational individual will change their views based on the best research not the most recent.

And to be pedantic with myself there’s no such thing as a truly rational individual. 🙂

So they’ve dumped the decision back onto schools, on the day the head of Ofqual is scapegoated to keep Williamson safe for sacrifice after the return to school fiasco.

Luckily headteachers are in the best place to decide on local risk levels, with all the test data from their catchment at their fingertips.

This government is unwilling to make any potentially unpopular decision (even though most of the decisions they’ve avoided – masks in shops etc – turned out to be generally welcomed)

I actually don’t have a problem with a head teacher making the call on what is best for their pupils and staff in their unique school set up.

But the government flip flopping in the wind to try and avoid any responsibility for anything is boiling my urine again.

Clarity. That’s what parents and teachers need. Confusion is what they will get.

I actually don’t have a problem with a head teacher making the call on what is best for their pupils and staff in their unique school set up.

I do, they are teachers with no scientific training in most cases.

Coronavirus and schools: Ditch truancy fines, say doctors

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-53905606

Schools should not just not be fining the parents of kids who don’t attend, they should have been working towards (and funded to provide) mixed/home learning this term… this work should have been going on for the last six months ready for this (at some schools it has been).

What nobody has mentioned is that the U-turm on face masks will mean headteachers having to AGAIN re-write their risk-assessments and plans to manage Covid 19 in school. Every time the government changes track it means re-doing paperwork in schools (which they have to have as they have duty of care towards staff and students).

@clink not worth paper they’re written on. RAs could give lessons to stw on victim blaming.

I actually don’t have a problem with a head teacher making the call on what is best for their pupils and staff in their unique school set up.

I do, they are teachers with no scientific training in most cases.

My head is an English teacher…

My head is an English teacher…

Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more.
Or fill up the wall with English dead.

As a teacher I find the guidelines pretty clear. The problem is the heads on schools are twisting the wording in the guidelines to get out of distancing measures.

Dont blame teachers if/when this causes a spike in cases. It’s not our fault. Its management not following the guidelines and putting an unsafe amount of kids in our classrooms. 30cm between seats with no masks is not safe.

The problem is the heads on schools are twisting the wording in the guidelines to get out of distancing measures.

Do you mean the head of one of your local schools (or even the school you teach in) is twisting the wording in the guidelines to get out of distancing measures?

FWIW. I haven’t yet heard from my head on masks. As is usually the case I suspect he is taking the time to consult the trust (who have a good history of a welfare first approach regardless of government guidance) and his SLT before making any decision.

Do you mean the head of one of your local schools (or even the school you teach in) is twisting the wording in the guidelines to get out of distancing measures?

Today they said there will be no social distancing in the classrooms and no reduced class sizes. No masks to be work either. I wouldn’t want my kids there.

To be brutal, that’s just following the government guidance. In the absence of firm national leadership, with schools deliberately left to their own devices, there are bound to be inconsistencies and poor decisions.

We got our policy today. We are not currently in a high risk area but staff can wear masks at all times if they choose to (the school would prefer visors and will supply these), including classrooms. Students can opt to wear masks in communal areas but not in classrooms but at the moment it’s not compulsory for them. Not the way I would have gone if it was my decision, but a reasonable middle ground on top of our other mitigation policies and procedures.

Just because a school or college is in a low risk area doesn’t mean all staff and all students are travelling from low risk areas.

It only takes 1 carrier…

We’ve had some interesting discussion today around what happens if a pupil or staff member gets a negative test result. Initially the school policy* was to say ‘come straight back, whole family ends self isolation’. Then I pointed out the relatively high and very variable rate of false negative results and the fact that other members of the family might still have it. So now we’re going to say something along the lines of ‘come back if you’re not experiencing covid symptoms and no one else in the family is self isolating etc’. Still not perfect but a bit less likely to result in infectious individuals coming back to school.

*And therein lies the real, problem, why are individual schools making this kind of public health decision? With the best will in the world it’s well outwith our experience and mistakes will be made. Where will the buck stop?

This is Scotland btw.

Comments removed I’ve already been warned by hq Comms for speaking the truth.

*And therein lies the real, problem, why are individual schools making this kind of public health decision? With the best will in the world it’s well outwith our experience and mistakes will be made. Where will the buck stop?

This is Scotland btw.

And there’s the rub.

Doesn’t matter whether it’s Scotland, England, Wales or wherever. The people now put in the position of making these calls are (with the best will in the world) ill-equipped to do so. Unless you happen to have a head who is a science teacher with a Masters/PhD in Virology. Much as I respect them, my head is a PE/Geography teacher…

The DfE strike again!

New guidelines published at 7.30 on a Friday evening. Bank Holiday weekend with many schools already back anyway.

Basically, even if there are new outbreaks, it’s all on schools and local councils to decide which ‘tier’ of response (from fully open to only open to vulnerable students and children of key workers). One confirmed case and its likely that entire bubble (so could be a year group) isolate for 14 days with home learning. Teachers probably exempt from that. Tiers 3 and 4 seem to involve teachers both teaching live and remotely.

As ever, at first glance it looks less like a statement of policy and more like a deflection of leadership and responsibility. Way to go Gavlar.

Are the guidelines published online yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/28/secondary-schools-in-england-could-use-attendance-rota-system

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/all-possible-measures-to-be-taken-before-schools-and-colleges-close

Spin, no idea why the school is making up its own policy on that. NHS Scotland provides clear advice to people who get negative results about if/when they should stop self isolating. There are various scenarios you probably haven’t even considered. e.g. if I get a negative result after being a contact of a confirmed case, I have to isolate for 14 days from the original exposure. Are headteachers in a world of their own where they think they are the first people to consider this question since March? Many employers have been open throughout that time keeping the country running and all of them have been working quite effectively with the Scottish and UK gov guidance (e.g. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/what-your-test-result-means/) on when you do and don’t need to isolate if you have symptoms, family members, test results etc…

The people now put in the position of making these calls are (with the best will in the world) ill-equipped to do so. Unless you happen to have a head who is a science teacher with a Masters/PhD in Virology. Much as I respect them, my head is a PE/Geography teacher…

The last thing you want is someone with a PhD in Virology – they probably think they know what they are doing and will make up their own rules. Any other professional would call their local authority, who have public health experts who can think of the question in a demographic scale rather than focussing on the individuals (assuming a quick google of the government guidance isn’t sufficient)!

Spin, no idea why the school is making up its own policy on that.

Because schools haven’t been given clear advice about how to deal with this or a number of other things. Instead heads etc are wading through info from a number of sources and trying to get something safe and appropriate in place. As a result I think my head had just overlooked this matter, something that will be happening up and down the land.

Because many parents don’t go and read the government guidance on when to end isolation, they phone the school and ask so the school needs to know.

Because there are plenty of parents who aren’t the sharpest tools and need things explained and there are some who will deliberately take the piss.

I expect many of the employers you mentioned will also have given staff clear advice on when to return rather than just assuming they’d read the official advice and done the right thing.

And finally, if you look at the link you kindly provided, the advice on ending isolation is pretty much what I said our school policy now was. It’s almost as if we actually looked at it. 🙂

@poly

Perhaps my initial post was unclear. The school isn’t making up a policy that’s different from official advice, we were deciding what we should tell parents and the advice around a negative test had been overlooked.

I see our overlords have dropped more wisdom bombs at the 11th hour again, Dicks!

How can this possibly be OK? Just dumping the guidance on schools (late) and then changing it on the fly….

They spent the last six months looking for a fag packet to scribble it on.

Thanks colournoise… that PR headline though…

All possible measures to be taken before schools and colleges close

Yeah, right.

Both kids back in school this week, mixed feelings on it from a Covid point of view.

Youngest – Year 2.

In Wales under 11s aren’t required to SD from each other or Adults, but classes are being kept in their own Bubble. Staggered timings means no mixing between years, despite a few little snags on Monday entry and exit working well. A few Mums had had to be reminded, firmly, there is a time and place for a chat, and it’s not in the middle of a walk way etc. I can only dream they’ll keep that up post-Covid.

Mostly they’re working to try to avoid too many parents mixing before and after school.

Youngest is happy, so glad to see her friends again, loving packed lunches (Mrs hates them) – all is well with the world.

School are doing a great job.

Eldest – Year 10.

The rules say: Students and Teachers must wear masks between classes.
Students will stay in their form group at all times meaning 30 kids to a bubble, this does mean some subjects won’t be taught right away, but needs must.
Students mustn’t mix with other form classes at break time, so breaks and lunch will be staggered. Students must wear masks if they find themselves in crowds entering or leaving school, but really there’s no reason why that should happen.

What’s actually happening: (all info from surely Teenager so taken with a handful of salt).

Afternoon Day 1, An English teacher tells my Son’s class “Masks are pretty useless anyway” stops just short of a full on anti-masker rant, teaches the class wearing a visor, but without actually lowering it.

Staggering class break times abandoned by the end of day 2.

School / Council / WAG / Westminster, pick your own whipping boy unable or unwilling to ‘Police’ mask policy in hallways, all the ‘cool’ / ‘Hard’ lads from the Rugby teams stop wearing them, all the other kids follow their lead, any kid seen wearing a mask now open to ridicule.

Teachers no longer wearing masks in hallways, too many kids without them to try to enforce it. Teachers telling kids, “it’s not up to us make you do the right thing” mostly ignored.

Form groups and Year groups all mixing during breaks, it can’t be easy to know which kid belongs to which group, but no one is trying.

However, they are ruthlessly enforcing 1 rule! The new “No headphone in the yard at Break time rule” on a few occasions a (mask-less) staff member has approached a (mask-less) student to demand they hand over their headphones, which can only be collected by a parent after school. It’s not a Covid thing, they just seem keen to enforce that one – you know, focus on the important things.

At least it’s only a small school, oh wait, no it’s actually the largest school in Wales.

Still sounds better than here.

During my first lesson a student’s computer would boot up. Something I would usually fix but I’m not prepared to get close enough to fix it.

During my second lesson I found I cant read the students monitors from 2m away. Again, I’m not prepared to get any closer so couldn’t help them.

Just walked into a shared staff room and someone brought a student in there for a chat standing in the middle of the room. I couldn’t get past till they had gone.

Some staff are not following any of the rules which is putting everyone at a higher risk.

I’m on the verge if quitting and looking for another job that I can do from home.