[Closed] Relying on CO2?

Useful looking chart^^ from here:

https://www.bikeexchange.co.uk/blog/how-to-use-co2-cartridge

I wouldn't rely on one CO2, there's been plenty of times where I've accidentally jettisoned half a cartridge of gas while trying to fit the pump to the valve, or there's been a 2nd puncture.

I have a small saddlebag with 2 cartridges, multi-tool and patches, and keep an emergency tube strapped to 2 more cartridges in my pocket.

How were your thinking of carrying the tube ,CO2 canister and adaptor? In a jersey pocket, roadie style?

Yeh I carry 3 x co2, no pump, incase I waste one.

https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/review-syncros-integrates-a-pump-multi-tool-and-bottle-cage-into-the-matchbox-tailor-hv/

Seems risky, but if you rarely puncture, then probably a risk worth taking (with the bigger co2 as per ^).  I carry 1 lightweight emergency tube, a mini pump and 3 or so anchovies. I suppose swapping the pump for a co2 would be fine, but it is only 1 hit whereas I have up to 4 in theory. Can you not just put a mini pump in your jersey pocket? Or one of those minipumps with the co2 add-on?

If you know for a fact that your tubeless set-up is robust then two cannisters and a tube in the back pocket / small seat bag is ample. Obv striking out for the hills on a large one you would take a bag with more precautionary kit, but the amount of stuff you see riders carting round local stuff is insane - like beasts of burden.

I'm not sure about that chart. A given quantity of gas can't give such different values for a 27.5x2.25 and a 29x2.1, surely? There's only about 10% difference in volume according to the back of my envelope, but it's claiming a 65% difference in pressure.

Being a recent owner of Stumpjumper I am now starting to ride without a pack. I carry 1 tube, 2 c02 and a small micropump inside the frame.

I hate carrying stuff inside pockets,especially car keys. The thought of them gouging my flesh in a crash is too much!

How were your thinking of carrying the tube ,CO2 canister and adaptor? In a jersey pocket, roadie style?

Thought about this a lot (too much?) and I want a rear saddlebag for everything, including phone - which means it needs to be waterproof.  That basically means the Topeak Drybag.  I don't like wearing roadie kit when MTBing (or at least the roadie kit I own) so there won't be back pockets, and I really hate stuff in my shorts pockets too.

I saw the Topeak thing on my sidebar, but it's still an external pump and it's still getting covered in mud.

I've relied on co2 for something like 20 years. Only had to walk home the once, and that was because I gave my co2 to someone else and then had a double flat...

Used to carry 2. Only one on the fat bike as they're huge.

I carry just one CO2 in my Piggy for 29 x 2.25 tyres, I've never really thought about it until now but I guess I would be in trouble if the CO2  didn't work first time. Still it's for local rides so a pootle back with grass stuffed in the tyres isn't that bad.

Flippin eck, 20g ones are expensive!

I've got one of these under my bottle cage.

https://www.evanscycles.com/bontrager-air-rush-road-mini-pump-co2-inflator-00103188

Remarkably mud free most of the time, but has dust covers on the ports anyway.

One 16g cannister is good enough for a 29*2.35 to get me home. Can do a top up with pump if needed, but you're there for a while...

I have a very small but telescopic and surprisingly good FWE minipump, there's a chance that would actually fit in a saddlebag.. hmm...

Or under it?

Carradice bags have a couple of stretchy panels underneath that hold a pump pretty well.

Bottle cage mount?

Ziplock bag to keep the filth off.

I do carry an unused C02  inflator as well,  because I am a wet hen. But usually forget it's there until I've pumped the tyre up anyway......

Bottle cage mount = mud.

Ziplock bag.. well maybe, but not that convenient.  The point of this setup is to just grab and go for short local rides, no faff.  One bottle.  Apparently the drybag is 18cm long and the pump is also 18cm long.  There are a few of those Lezyne ones with the little hose in that are 17cm long but isn't there some problem with those?  Like unscrewing the valve core or something?

You can fit quite a lot of stuff in a water bottle, certainly 2 or 3 CO2 cannisters and a multitool plus some other gubbins. I use a re-useable cable tie to stop it falling out on the bumps, and another one to secure an inner tube under the saddle. Your phone may have to go in your pocket though! I have cracked screens that way, erg...

Like unscrewing the valve core or something?

Not if you attach the hose to the valve first, then the pump to the hose. The other way round means the hose is less likely to be in line with the valve and then start unscrewing the valve code.

To be honest for short local rides I very often take no tools, or very minimal (multitool + quick link, no tubes/pump/co2) but then my local rides are not rocky & I haven't had a puncture on the MTB in years. So in that sense I'd be totally happy with just a couple of co2 canisters in case of emergency.

If I've got a backpack I'll probably just take my Mountain Morph, it's not THAT heavy and it's so much nicer to use than a mini-pump and more versatile than co2.

There are a few of those Lezyne ones with the little hose in that are 17cm long but isn’t there some problem with those? Like unscrewing the valve core or something?

I used to have this problem until I realised that they have a little button on the hose that you press to stop it happening *d'oh*

Bottle cage mount = mud.

If you have a couple of cages or don't need the bottle cage for water, you can use a storage bottles. I have one on my road bike which stores a spare tube, lezyne pump, multi tool, nitrile gloves.

Obviously can't fit much else in it if there's a 29er tube in there but that can be velcroed elsewhere...

I’m not sure about that chart. A given quantity of gas can’t give such different values for a 27.5×2.25 and a 29×2.1, surely? There’s only about 10% difference in volume according to the back of my envelope, but it’s claiming a 65% difference in pressure.

My maths is possibly even shakier than yours, but thinking about a cross section of an inner tube I'm pretty sure that a 10% increase in a circle's diameter will result in roughly a 30% increase in it's surface area....

My maths is possibly even shakier than yours, but thinking about a cross section of an inner tube I’m pretty sure that a 10% increase in a circle’s diameter will result in roughly a 30% increase in it’s surface area….

Don't forget to account for the difference in circumference of the donut… The 27.5x2.25 is a fatter donut, but it's also smaller. Volume is proportional to not just the square of carcass diameter but also the circumference (roughly speaking).

If you have a couple of cages or don’t need the bottle cage for water, you can use a storage bottles. I have one on my road bike which stores a spare tube, lezyne pump, multi tool, nitrile gloves.

Yeah this is not a bad idea except for the phone issue.  Don't think my phone fits in a bottle cage cannister.

If you want a really small emergency pump, the Topeak Micro Rocket is tiny. 16cm long, it says here. Never had to use mine in anger (IIRC it worked surprisingly well on a trial inflation of a road tyre) but I suspect it'd take a while to fill a 29x2.3…

Not a bad shout Bez.  Too bad I've already ordered the CO2 but we'll see how that goes.

Yeah this is not a bad idea except for the phone issue. Don’t think my phone fits in a bottle cage cannister.

Nothing bigger than an iPhone 5 unforts..

I'd much rather wear a roadie top than not have a dropper (which most saddle packs limit you to). In fact I wear a roadie top almost all the time tbh.

When it's niceish weather and I'm just going local or racing XC, I do exactly that and take a mini pump, tube and a phone, and stuff a waterproof in just in case (unless it's REALLY nice).

I carry far too much stuff in the camelbak though...

Silverfish have the Backcountry straps on their site for sub £20, the video shows it'll hold a tube, some cannisters and tyre levers fine. If the bikes clean when it goes on and you give it a wipe between rides not sure how it will damage the frame, if you are worried about it, some 3m clear tape on that area of frame to stop the rubbing maybe?

Yeah this is not a bad idea except for the phone issue.  Don’t think my phone fits in a bottle cage cannister.

You'll have to buy an Apple Watch then 🙂

I do for local rides Worst that’ll happen is I have to walk a couple of miles home or call my mrs and get picked up.

not sure how it will damage the frame, if you are worried about it, some 3m clear tape on that area of frame to stop the rubbing maybe?

I'm worried about the pump itself getting all gritty and crapped up - and I'll have to remove it whilst hosing the bike and clean it separately. Faff.  Pumps, whilst some are sealed ish, are not designed for that level of crud.

You’ll have to buy an Apple Watch then

It's actually a pretty persuasive use case for a wearable device.

Without wishing to go full Four Yorkshiremen, we sometimes used to use lengths of inner tube as sort of pump johnnies.

What about this instead of Co2

https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/is-the-new-milkit-booster-the-cheapest-simplest-tubeless-tyre-inflator-ever/

ignore me me you still need a flipping pump(doh)

i've had a pump of some sort or other strapped to the MTB/CX since i don't know when and getting contaminated with crud has never been a problem (current mini-pump has rubber bungs top and bottom, 10 year old frame-fit pump fires any mud out the hole with half a pump), and taking it off to clean it is about 10 seconds of faff, if you can call it faff when you're spending considerably longer cleaning your bike and clothes etc

and going full Four Yorkshiremen CO2 is an expensive and wasteful way of putting air in a tyre, if you're Top 10 in a race and puncture then maybe...

Given I've had one tubeless puncture in a decade of tubeless, the expense of £1 a cartridge isn't high on my list of concerns.

The faff factor isn't about total time spent, it's about the number of things I have to do in order to clean my bike. I've whittled it down over the years to make it as simple as possible - I don't want to add more as this is a retrograde step.

A sufficiently well sealed pump might do the trick if carried on the frame.  But I'm not that keen on the idea still.

my life all of a sudden seems remarkably uncomplicated 🙂

Have you investigated the Topeak Ninja P?

For short rides I don't bother carrying anything other that my house keys. What's the worst that could happen?

What’s the worst that could happen?

You could get stuck indoors have to watch this terrible looking movie lol

For short rides I don’t bother carrying anything other that my house keys. What’s the worst that could happen?

In my case, about a 90 minute walk pushing a disabled bike, or even worse I could be forced to leave my bike and crawl down the hillside with a broken leg.

You can scoff, but phones are important.  A friend of mine was out running in winter, slipped and fell on ice, broke his leg and had to crawl half a mile through the snow to the nearest house.  He now takes his phone.  It does happen.

Depends how you define a short ride, 20 miles on a bike is not that long, but if you have to walk 5 miles to the nearest town or village with a disabled bike and even a slight injury, it's a very long 5 miles, especially if the weather is crap..

As per someone above,  for short local rides I just take keys, phone, multi-tool (which has a chain tool), quick link, and water bottle in cage. Worst that's happened was a puncture (first in about six or seven years) and I had a five mile walk home pushing the bike. Could have waited at the nearest pub for the other half to pick me up but I fancied the walk and had nowhere else I needed to be.

Maybe consider one of these

http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/crankbrothers-klic-hv-pump-review/

In my case, about a 90 minute walk pushing a disabled bike, or even worse I could be forced to leave my bike and crawl down the hillside with a broken leg.

So take the phone ... but unless you have a desperate need to be somewhere an hour and half max doesn't sound like the end of the world on the off-chance you get a puncture.

I'm terrible for carrying stuff I never use BTW... but I'd be more worried that the puncture or whatever would happen on a spontanious "Oh I'll go twice the distance away" and mostly I just take the same pack or just a multi-tool (and phone)

I have a pump on frame clips.  No issue at all with it.  You can slip a piece of old inner tube over the head if you want.  But then I do run mudguards

So take the phone … but unless you have a desperate need to be somewhere an hour and half max doesn’t sound like the end of the world on the off-chance you get a puncture.

Ok but if I don't want my phone in my pocket then I need a saddlebag, and I might as well put a tube and CO2 in it...

Just wear a cycling top, rather than a fashion top? Then you have some useful back pockets, thus removing the need for all the angst! 🙂

Ok but if I don’t want my phone in my pocket then I need a saddlebag, and I might as well put a tube and CO2 in it…

I have one of those quad lock cases.

I don't always stick it on the bars (especially if I know where I am) but the hard case is pretty good to stick in a pocket even if your not using it for navigation.

Its adsorbed dropping out onto the trail and a few crashes whilst in pockets.

Topeak do a few good bottle cage options.

I run a Topeak Ninja cage with multi-tool at the bottom, a pump strapped to the side, and a small bottle inside the cage with spare tubes, chain link, chain breaker etc, CO2 and even a light:

Only use this on my hardtail, which i only really use on shorter rides. less than 2 hrs etc:

Longer rides, i use a Evoc waist pack.

Just wear a cycling top, rather than a fashion top? Then you have some useful back pockets, thus removing the need for all the angst!

There's no angst.  Just asking how people get on with just using CO2 for emergency tubes.  I don't need (and didn't ask for!) advice on carrying stuff.

I don’t need (and didn’t ask for!) advice on carrying stuff.

You've been discussing and pondering the very issue, including the fashion aspect, from your second post  onward....

Thought about this a lot (too much?) and I want a rear saddlebag for everything, including phone – which means it needs to be waterproof.  That basically means the Topeak Drybag.  I don’t like wearing roadie kit when MTBing (or at least the roadie kit I own) so there won’t be back pockets, and I really hate stuff in my shorts pockets too.

*smiley*.

The Carradice CarraDura seatpacks are waterproof, btw and far better quality than the Topeak ones we've bust or worn out .

If you don't fancy a Ziploc bag, improvise. I use an old Thomson seatpost bag. It stays under the seatpack, secured by two built in stretchy bits of material and a velcro strap to stop it shifting around.