Relatively Trivial Ebay Dispute, who's right

Bought some SPD pedals off ebay, just searched by cheepest, clicked, paid, done.

The pro-forma bit of the lsiting included this description:

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller’s listing for full details

Now, assuming you don’t read the description for a new item that’s advertised as new, and you already know what it is.

The description does say as the bottom that cleats are not included.

Would you think it fair that the shop is selling OEM pedals, opening the packets, removing the cleats and selling them seperately? especialy as if you access ebay via google shopping it doesn’t even show the description unless you click the “legal/further details” button?

Response from the shop was

They are exactly as described. I have sold over 2000 pairs with the same description so there is no problem at all with the listing. It also states in the ebay stuff that items can be bagged. Im sorry but i cant be blamed if you did not read the description. We are splitting the cleats from the pedals thats why they are the price they are. But i do state no cleats included. Im happy to sell you a pair of cleats if you call to buy at £7.00 which makes them cheaper than merlin.

So I still get the pedals+cleats at the cheepest price so I’m happy with that, but I do think the add was a bit missleading, am I alone in that?

edit: they’re at the cheep end of the spectrum, so the cost of cleats if I’d just accepted the pedals and gone back to buy cleats makes up about a third of the total cost.

link ?

I does sound like they are being a bit economical with the truth in order to – apparently – have the lowest ticket price.

Not much you can do though other than don’t use them again, oh, and name and shame 🙂

you’re wrong, read the description, it’s ebay…………

there was no original retail packaging as they are an OEM item – I’d say they were reasonable.

If they were selling retail, boxed stuff with no cleats I think you’d have a case. But even then if the as stated ‘No cleats’ and you ignored/didn’t read it then caveat emptor woudl probably be the case.

I’m not naming and shameing as they’ve made a fair offer to sell the pedals at a price that means I’ve still bought them as cheep as elswhere, just not the bargain they appeared to be.

Where it varies from the decription is the un-opened bit, there’s a seperate category on ebay for “new: other” for stuff that’s been opened or bits removed from a complete bike for example. If they’d been in that category I’d not complain (and would have clicked through to the description).

Is the seller doing something which might not be 100% legal? Probably. Welcome to eBay, who themselves don’t actually tick ALL the boxes to be fully legal in the UK. 😉

And if eBay got rid of everyone selling something slightly dodgy they’d be out of business overnight. Sad, and certainly not something I condone, but true.

Now, has the seller duped you? No. Seller was upfront and honest about what he was selling.

Clear case of caveat emptor. If it said, “no cleats”, you got what you paid for.

Well without seeing the ad it’s hard to decide how sneaky they may have been about putting it in the small print at the bottom. Regardless, ultimately it’s your problem for missing it unless you KNOW and can PROVE that the OEM packs they buy include cleats

The description is pretty clear, but as I said, search through google shopping and ebay comes up in a different page format with just the pro forma part of the listing. A bit like other websites have a tick box that says “click here to say you’ve read out T&C’s), doean anyone ever read them?

unless you KNOW and can PROVE that the OEM packs they buy include cleats

We are splitting the cleats from the pedals thats why they are the price they are.

The description as a whole is accurate (ish), but it’s a bit like buying a new car, then when it arrives finding it doesn’t come with wheels, despite the fact you assumed that every new car came with wheels included.

despite the fact you assumed that every new car came with wheels included.

Yet if the advert had said, “No wheels included”…..

If he did indeed say that in the listing, then how can you complain.

“I didn’t read the description” ?

Not really a good enough reason to complain in my opinion.

You’re wrong – you go what you paid for.

In my experience rushing with eBay purchases is always a bad idea. You must read the description and never trust the ‘header’ info.

I want to see how they get the cleats out without opening the packaging – clever

I have bought loads of cheap pedals like this and they never come with cleats .Its why they are so cheap .I always check the listing .I dont need cleats that often so it doesnt bother me

We are splitting the cleats from the pedals thats why they are the price they are.

I’ve never seen an OEM delivery to a shop – maybe they get loads of pedals and loads of cleats bagged separately. Surely that’d be easier for both manufacturer and receiving shop ?

Sharp practive for sure and they caught you. Lesson to learn. Just neg them and state why. Nowt else you can do

I want to see how they get the cleats out without opening the packaging – clever

They don’t, they come in a bag, which then has 4 bags in it, one with each of the pedals, one with cleats, one with the instruction book. The outer bag is opened (which was my gripe with the heading). If the heading says unopened packet you assume that everythign that was in the paket when it left the factory is still in there.

TJ probably has it right, it’s a bit sharp and probbaly just the wrong side of right, learn from it and move on.

Just neg them and state why.

“Based on not reading the listing properly, I didn’t get what I expected.
They sent what they said they would, rather than what I guessed they might”

The outer bag is opened

That was kinda my point

You’re wrong, they’re right – there’s a few pedals being sold like that and it’s obvious (via a normal eBay page) that the cleats aren’t included, it’s something that’s done and is well known. The fact you access via a method that doesn’t show the description clearly is your problem not theirs…

But i do state no cleats included

If the listing does state no cleats included I’m really struggling to see your point.

Thread synopsis……

I’m not naming and shameing

Because.

The description is pretty clear

I just didn’t read any of it.

I just didn’t read any of it.

That’s the point, I did read as far as “unopened packet” and the packet included cleats. So the advert contradicts itslef.

Retail pedals come with cleats, you assumed these would too. I’m on their side, though as a seller I’d be clearer.

Your car analogy is BS btw, no car can function without wheels.

Mmmm, no I think the seller’s right. Pedals do virtually always include cleats yes, but you can’t assume that. You did, despite the fact it said something to the contrary.

TJ’s ‘wrong side of right’ is on the mark.

That’s the point, I did read as far as “unopened packet” and the packet included cleats. So the advert contradicts itslef.

My apologies. You read some of the description.

But he clearly stated there were no cleats included.

So you obviously didn’t read enough of it.

The seller can’t be responsible for you not reading what he writes. can he ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-M520-Black-SPD-MTB-Pedals-NEW-/290721240209?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item43b0561491#ht_2499wt_982

I bought some a while ago too. Didn’t need the cleats at the time but also didn’t notice they weren’t included. Properly read the description and decided it was my own fault

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item

Reading this I question how they remove the cleats

We are splitting the cleats from the pedals thats why they are the price they are.

It certainly put me off using them again as I don’t want to deal with “sneaky” shops. They are certainly not making an effort to be clear that cleats are not included in the title which is where an entirely upfront shop would mention it seeing as how it is fairly critical.

There response seems a bit off hand – certainly not good customer service but then it depends on the tone of your email to them so we’ll need context.

Possibly the most pointless thread I’ve read on here for a long, long time. And thats quite an acheivement.

What do you think w/o cleats means .You only have to compare prices to realize that this seller and others dont include the cleats because they are so much cheaper than those that do if you read descriptions properly .If the pedals are in a seperate unopened bag to the cleats where is the lie?

So the listing clearly states Twice that it is for pedals without cleats 🙄

And you still expect cleats !!

READ THE DESCRIPTION, it’s right there

To be honest, I would have been too embarrassed to come on here and complain if it was so clearly
My mistake.

Devil’s advocate;
But the seller shouldn’t be selling then as ‘new, unopened packaging’ then? And the admission that they are opening the packets and splitting the contents is de facto proof that the seller has miss catagorised the item then, should be ‘new without packaging/tags/whatever’
\Devils’s advocate

Car without wheels analogy actually pretty good I think, SPDs pretty useless without a means of attaching them to your feet.

I’d say it’s 100% your fault for not reading the item description. You got exactly what you paid for, so how can you complain about that?

Leaving negative feedback would be childish.

A case of read twice before clicking 😉

I once ordered some m520s that were described as coming without cleats, but when they arrived there were cleats in the box (unopened). HTH

Wish I could buy pedals without cleats. Think I’ve bought 7 pairs of pedals in the same time space as 1 pair of shoes which I’ve changed the cleats on once.
I’m drowning in the bloody things. Wonder what their scrap value is….

Devil’s advocate;
But the seller shouldn’t be selling then as ‘new, unopened packaging’ then? And the admission that they are opening the packets and splitting the contents is de facto proof that the seller has miss catagorised the item then, should be ‘new without packaging/tags/whatever’
\Devils’s advocate

Car without wheels analogy actually pretty good I think, SPDs pretty useless without a means of attaching them to your feet.

I resent being refered to as the devil, but that was pretty much my point.

And you can drive a car without tyres, it’s about as grippy and comfortable as riding SPD’s without cleats.

TINAs the pedal bags were unopened I presume? If so then the e-bay description is technically correct. Read ad FULLY twice, buy once.

mrjmt – Member

Wish I could buy pedals without cleats. Think I’ve bought 7 pairs of pedals in the same time space as 1 pair of shoes which I’ve changed the cleats on once.
I’m drowning in the bloody things. Wonder what their scrap value is…. If they’re Shimano MTB SPD cleats I’ll throw some money at you for them. 😉

You’re just being massively pedantic, and I suspect you know it.

I regularly list things as ‘new’ on eBay which have been removed from their packaging but not used – ie. OE stuff from bikes.

I make this clear in my listings are nobody has ever complained.

Jeez. It’s Friday FFS, go buy yourself some cleats and go for a ride!