Re: The Poll. Why aren't as many people doing events this year

Ironically the only reason I’m doing less than normal is because some have cancelled, and others sold out…

I think it’s partly a change of direction, I couldn’t get a ticket for the Gravity Enduro round at Innerleithen frinstance but 10@Kirroughtree lacked numbers. There’s still a lot of people doing events but maybe not the old stalwarts so much.

For me, one lap of a XC race in 2010, two XC races in 2011 and one XC and three gravity enduro races planned/done in 2012. My gut feeling is that mainstream MTBing is heading more towards the gravity enduro format and away from the XC endurance format.

P.S. That poll about transporting your bike was strange – both wheels off as the only in the car option?! No wheels off with one bike, front wheels off with two, both wheels off with three, and my car isn’t even that big!

I have entered quite a few through the years the road sportives are the biggest waste of money paying 50 notes for riding on a public road that you can ride on any day is just crazy. Enduro events can be fun if your riding on private land different scenery and the likes. Its just so expensive to drive to these events with parting with £40 plus to enter.

PDS is the only event I’ve entered this year, includes food, lift passes and isn’t a race.

I don’t really enjoy racing I enjoy riding, the banter, the views so therefore competitive events don’t do it for me.

Entered a few Gorrick, No Fuss and a Scottish XC Series, gave it a try.

I was a regular trailquest/mtbo competitor until moving abroad last year. It helps to live in the right place. I enjoyed our county based league (North Yorkshire), which meant travel to events was never a financial burden. Entry fees were very reasonable and courses were almost infinitely variable: negating the ’round and round the same track’ comments, even if the location had been used before. I was also able to ride in the generation class which meant my teenage son and I could compete together.

I know trailquesting is not everyone’s cup of tea but for me it was ideal and were I back in North Yorkshire I can see no reason why I would not be again this year.

I used to do the Polaris once or twice a year. Then is went down the tube (taken over/ruined) and has only recently restarted under the OMM badge. It was fun, and often took me to a new area, where someone had contrived to work out a load of great riding. But it was expensive, and all that driving, parking/attempting to get out of a muddy field at the end etc. Now I have a good few years of biking under my belt I am more self-contained and happier to pick my own location, bunch of mates, and weather window. Not saying never again, just not at the moment. Just recently back from a Long Mynd weekend. Not too far, nice campsite, great riding, no fuss – brilliant. Maybe I’ve just got old, slippers anyone 😉

I find that the entry fees are too expensive and offer little value for money. I’m not a fast rider but do like endurance events and usually ride as a soloist. However, being a slow female veteran, I do get very pivved off having the “female veteran” class amalgamated with “female open”. If you enter a certain class then it should remain as is. It’s not my fault that there are no other competitors. I noticed at one event, there were at least 10 veteran females entered about 4 years ago, just as I was taking up mountain biking. However, I’m lucky to get 2 or 3 in my class now.

I hope we see more low key gravity enduro races come out. Non uci jobs for us mortals. Bit of racing followed by a Barbie and beer (maybe some music) sounds like paradise to me.
I missed the exmoor one unfortunately but I’ll be doing the next one.

For the past 11 years I’ve done Mayhem, SITS, Bikefest, Gorrick enduro, the National XC series, occasional Nat Champs, Southern Series, Gorricks, D2D and more recently the Brass Monkey and Thetford Winter Series.

This year I have once again done/will do all of these. The fuel costs have made me share lifts a lot more than I used to. I don’t spend a lot on drinking or partying so pretty much all my spare cash goes on racing – mainly on hotels and fuel. I agree the arena at Mayhem seemed a bit quiet this year – however you have to remember the weather which really put people off hanging around.

In general, I think the number of events has reached a bit of saturation. 7 or so years ago we had no Southern series, for example. This, coupled with people having less money to pay for racing has led to more people just going for a ride instead. Cycling is rather unique in that you can ‘do’ it without having to enter an event/match etc (unlike, say, football). The recession has hit racing and people just ride instead. As was said above – people are looking at a weekend away bivvying as a lot more appealing than entering another 24hr race at the same place and risking more pushing. With the days of trail centres guaranteeing a decent weekend of riding no matter what the weather I think the big 24s have suffered – although I completely understand why these events have to be where they are. If there was a decent, built, all weather track at Mayhem/SITS it would transform the event. Bikefest shows what is possible here. The days of pushing your bike through clay for 24hrs being ‘ok’ are over.

GB

I think something else that’s certainly had a big impact on me is that my mountain biking has just moved on. Over the years I’ve done a few Polaris events about a decade ago, 7 or 8 Mountain Mayhems and a handful of other 24 hour races and similar, a few of the old “enduro” 60-100km ride things, but in the last 3 years or so I’ve been out nearly every week on trails which are just more fun than those events offer. And I’ve done very few events recently. We only ever used to do 40km+ rides 10 yrs back but nowadays I sometimes go and throw myself about in the same woods for just an hour and I love it. Events wise very little has offered me that kind of riding. Maybe I should’ve tried DH a few years ago but I never did. I’ve done a Mega and now I’ve entered a gravity enduro which I’m really looking forward to and which maybe will close that gap.

I think the money point for me is more of a shift in my priorities than a simple observation that events and travelling have become much more expensive. I suspect the major costs haven’t moved much ahead of wage inflation – car costs certainly haven’t – but I no longer want to chuck that money at an event given the other opportunities that are out there.  I probably spend more on riding than I used to overall though. 

And then I don’t think many of the individual events hold the appeal for me they used to. For me Mayhem got too big and lost a lot of its atmosphere, for example. Perhaps UK mountain biking has moved on too and widened it’s appeal to a bigger audience? Perhaps organised events get you into it but then you can do it yourself and most people on here have been doing it themselves a long time?

chipps – I work here

After years of not doing any XC, I’m finally wanting to do a few two-hour flat out races, though I’ll admit I’ve not got round to finding out any.

there’s a series only 10 miles from your door, you could ride there and back (good enough for TwinklyDave) and help with the course setup at 07:15 to get a free entry (keeping with the austerity theme), if we are organised the course setup helpers normally get a hot drink and food voucher as well….. in fact we are nearly paying you to ride 😀

you’ve only missed 17 since 2009, but there are another two left this year 😉

Roots and Rain[/url] Plug for the more gravity event list and photo & results resource.

Would be an interesting feature Chipps to have some of the event organisers in and ask about costs etc. Put some of these points to them and see what they say.

How about putting a financial summary of the weekender out (blurred/redacted if needed) to show where the costs are.
Over here in Tasmania I have talked to a few organisers who are very open about the Minimum number required to run an event.

The other financial we don’t see is subsidy (a lot of non UK events are) is there anything available in the UK (lottery etc)

British Cycling seem strange some days, follow them on Twitter/Facebook and there is loads about anything road, but even when the World Cup DH/XC is on it’s never mentioned.

In the end it does leave me with the same impression that STW forum think that everyone apart from themselves should work for free and put on events for less than it costs. If not they are just profiteering. Could we have a touch of realism to the forum please…..

Hi guys,

I gave up paying to ride around in muddy grass fields years ago – partly due to being in my 30s and cost and also racing is crap for partners / families etc

The bad points are as follows

1) cost of event / getting there etc
2) boring
3) bad attitude of some people on the race track / on campsites

But overwhelmingly I would rather spend my time riding with mates on real trails in the lakes / powys / dales / scotland / exmoor and make a weekend of it

I often do 2 / 3 day mini tours via yhas / b+bs and thats far more enjoyable than doing an event – well for me at least.

I ride for fitness / thrills / nature watching etc and I get more from a weekends riding / or a long day ride than actually competing etc

regards

paul

I have done 10 UTB last 4 years but gave it a miss this year owing to (crap) weather the last 2 years and the fact that for a fun event there are too many people taking it far too seriously.

some concerning news

http://shred.cc/shredmag/?p=1077

We have had invaluable help and advice from the Beastway Team, I hope someone/ more than one, can step up

good luck guys

Interesting that you use the word “events” not “races”. I think there is a difference.

In good news, the kids races we run (mini DH) are getting more and more popular, so there is hope for the sport !

In my personal view, some of the formats are getting a bit tired. Enduro is taking off as it is new and rewards skill as much as fitness, really hope the national series sorts out the bugs. XC has had it’s day, even the UCI think so, but BC will keep plugging away as it is an Olympic Sport.

And I do think the weather is playing a part. People hold off for day entries now, and if you get a bad forecast, you won’t get many. Just means you have to factor that in to your planning.

We are considering buying a club tractor, must get that grant application in…

I’ve been waiting to close to the event to register and only doing so if the forecast looks favourable.
I can’t stand camping in extreme wetness nor riding or pushing in bog. There’s much better ways to spend a weekend.
From my observations there hasn’t been many dry events at all this summer.
I went to 24 12 with a large group of people and I had a good weekend overall, but it was due to the company I was with. The riding was awful and I gave up after 4 laps as did most of our group.

Chipps – Don’t get me wrong, I was never suggesting that Pat rakes the money in, you asked for opinions, which to me also includes perceptions.

The perception of MM this year for myself (and others I talked to) was that there was lots of none core stuff organised ie additional races that were not related to the core event. Event T Shirts were expensive. Big sponsorship deal with Wiggle (which prevented other shops selling). Less showers/toilets/bike washes. All adds up to the PERCEPTION that profit is being chased more.

On a secondary note, I think its fantastic the comments above about people giving up their time to organise/help at events. Unfortunately where I am in life right now, I barely have time to take part in events, let alone help out.

“3) bad attitude of some people on the race track / on campsites”

I would agree with that. Mrs FD is not really in to biking, but I’m trying to encourage her.

She’s been to a cross race with me to watch and enjoyed the atmosphere. She came to MM with me, and straight away some one was f’ing and blinding at us as we drove in becuase we were going in a different direction they wanted to go in in their car.

She also said that in general the atmosphere at MM was that people were much further up their own arses at MM than they were at the cross race 😆

I’ve been waiting to close to the event to register and only doing so if the forecast looks favourable.

As an event organiser this is what nearly put us under in 2010 and is the reason why there won’t be another summer HTN. The summer races have cost (IIRC… it was a long time ago) £12k and £8k to put on. We don’t want to have to find sums of money like that out of our own pockets.

Things have to be paid for in advance, if it doesn’t look like you are going to break even 6 weeks out then the event gets pulled.

I think weather, cost, value, travel and the ability to wreck a bike in a weekend (given lots of mud) puts people off. Kinda understandable.

Will be heading for Are you tough enough this weekend. Cheap (£20 for solo), dry (course drains well), and a nice course with lots of single track and quite a bit of descending (900ft) in a 7 or 8 mile lap.

http://www.areyoutoughenough.co.uk

And you can be in out and home in the day (if you are in the south).

The only racing I’ve ever done is Gravity Enduro style events. That’s because they are currently the only type of event that appeal to me. They are similar to the kind of riding I normally do i.e. a weekend away with one night in a B&B (no time off work), two days riding, spin up the hills, bomb down them, beers Sat night, home Sunday evening. Most important: technical, fun courses and plenty of banter.

Those who have commented about “ex-Pro downhillers”: sure they are in the race. That is one of the good things about them. Racing on the same track, in the same race as the pros. You can’t do that in many sports! However they are in different categories to us mere mortals. You actually race your peers.

As for 24 hour events: not my cup of tea. I was race mechanic for some mates at one once and can’t see the attraction in lapping non-technical trails in a state of sleep depravation and festering in a tent between laps.

Oops duplicate!

To be honest I’m trying to do my normal number this year. I had to miss Mayhem though as I was taking part in an Ironman Tri the following weekend!! After 30 weeks worht of training I couldn’t risk breaking anything or wasting my legs!

I have done a few years of doing as many marathon style events as possible. This year so far I have done none, with the view that I may do one or at most two by seasons end. Its hard to know what to suggest to the organisers to change things, but for me the formats just had its day. Of course the vile weather hasnt helped motivation, and the tempatation to “see how it looks by Thursday” and then get an entry on line, hasnt helped becasue its too easy to back out.
When I first started doing marathon events the novely and buzz of simply having a number on your bike, an official start line and the element of competetion was enough to justify doing them, but when that novelty wears off then you are just left with the attitude of “well I could come to the Dyfi forest / Coed Y Brenin / Whinlatter / Long Mynd / Scottish border trails etc etc and ride all this for free next weekend. And I know thats become the thinking of all the guys I ride with that used to come en-masse to these events. I think the concept mentioned earlier about possibly running an event on a Saturday and having a social / band / beer-up on the evening may appeal.

Yes what Harry said. It can be a bit of a trap though. Esp with DH when you have to book the uplift based on a certain number. Can’t magic up vans and trailers (or timing dibbers for the Enduros) at 0800 on a saturday morning when 50 folk turn up for day entries ! I don’t need to check the weather forecast the week before an event any more. On tuesday I either get 20 emails “can I get a day entry, can I get a day entry, can I get a day entry” or “I broke my collarbone/my kid is sick/the dog ate my bike can I get a refund”.

We have had races this year where I could have sold 50 more entries if we had the facilities, and the other end where we were 50 short on estimates. Swings and roundabouts. And please please please stop raining !!!

well if anyone in West yorkshire wants a simple Xc race series based at Tong then let me know, another shop owner has experessed an interest in supporting, BC have it as one of their goals to get XC racing going again in the area.

Im planning a simple event similar to cross but for xc.

Any volunteers?

As the years go by MTB racing seems to get less and less coverage in the magazines. Headline space is mostly given to the burlier, more spectacular aspects of riding. Race kit is rarely reviewed and when it is it’s usually the ‘money’s no object’ end of the market. I’ve seen plenty of technique tutorials on how to jump, nail rocky drops etc but never one on how to maintain efficient forward progress (and therefore maintain enjoyment) in mud.

I’ve been to the Mayhem nine years running now and I’ll agree with previous posters that it has lost a lot of it’s festival atmosphere in recent years. For events to move forward and grow they need to offer more than just the racing. I was fortunate enough to go to the Mayhem with a large enough group that we could club together to buy a sizeable and sturdy marquee but my heart goes out to those who turned up with just a car and a small tent. Maybe free communal covered areas or premium trackside marquees for hire would help. It was a poor show that the changeover area wasn’t covered this year and I think that one ommission will have done huge harm to next year’s entries.

Those who have commented about “ex-Pro downhillers”: sure they are in the race. That is one of the good things about them. Racing on the same track, in the same race as the pros. You can’t do that in many sports! However they are in different categories to us mere mortals. You actually race your peers.

it’s not the presence of the ex-pros that puts me off, it’s the technical nature of the ‘off-piste’ trails.

i’ve done a few now where the trails/stages have been a mix of new off-piste stuff, and ‘old’ established tracks.

this is a good idea, and i do think it’s been done well.

As the concept of Enduro has developed, the ‘old’ bits are increasingly bits of Dh tracks. i’ve done some Dh racing, and i’ve found these ‘old’ bits of Dh track to be the ‘easy’ bits.

(especially so at Ae/Inners)

so, we’re expected to ride stages that are steeper, and more technical than most Dh race tracks, on our xc bikes…

i think i’ll leave it the retired Dh pros…

(it’s a great format, it’s even my favourite format to participate in, i’m just too crap)

I’ve never done many events, 3 is the most, 0 is the usual, I seem to have commitment issues, signing up for a race 6months prior worries me. 2 events for me this year so that’s more than my usual, maybe do more we’ll see.

After lots of years doing marathons and enduro type events, I’ve gone back to grass roots style short course xc races; turn up pay twenty quid, then race round singletrack until sick up. surprisingly fun.

iv riden bikefest the last 3 years but this year i just dident have the urg i have before i might go for oktoberfest but still allot of money for me to ride a place whare u cant really overtake and i can usualy ride for free
however i did my first try a tri this year and really liked it as there dident seem to be that bitcheyness u get with off road teams u can just ride at your own pace
im going to try the bristol cyclo races aswell as a couple of road events
also i dont drive so big events are usualy out of my range

I have signed up for Dyfi @ CYB for the only event so far this year.

The reasons being we are close to the area that weekend and also I need something to aim for as my riding kit is getting a little too snug! 😉

Its a lack of time for me and some are just too expensive and I would rather just head off somewhere and ride.

But over the years I have enjoyed the ones entered, each one has its attractions/merits, both good and bad…

Its good to see some local events popping up though.

I’m a racer at heart, so in a lot of cases, it’s the quality of the courses and the racing that tends to define my enjoyment of an event, rather than all the other gubbins that goes along with it.

I started the season by looking at the races I wanted to do. I spent ages poring over calendars and ultimately struggled to find many things that really motivated me.

Did the Gorrick 100, which I thought was well done given the conditions in the run up. One that hasn’t been mentioned so far is the XCM Champs (in parallel with the CRC Marathon) in Selkirk. OK, so it was only 71k, rather than the proclaimed 85k, and some bits had suffered from the previous week’s rain, but on the whole it was a great single loop course. Really impressed and hope they can run something similar again next year.

Mayhem was a massive disappointment. The weather played its part, but the whole event felt lazy. The course was exactly the same as last year (which was hardly inspiring) and to have only laid on 3 bike washes and ~15 showers for nearly 3000 racers was poor. As others have pointed out, at ~£60 a head and massive sponsorship, it’s difficult to see where the money goes. The event was saved by having a decent team setup and a few beers with mates, but I’m tempted to do something else next year.

Kielder 100 is on the cards again (hoping that the Summer rain translates in to a dry Autumn!), but ultimately, my head’s been turned by foreign adventures. Proper epic courses, big mountains and decent value too boot. It means fewer events/races, but the quantity is more than countered by the quality. Unfortunately, I’m not sure there’s much in the UK that can, or will be able to, compete.

As the concept of Enduro has developed, the ‘old’ bits are increasingly bits of Dh tracks. i’ve done some Dh racing, and i’ve found these ‘old’ bits of Dh track to be the ‘easy’ bits.

(especially so at Ae/Inners)

so, we’re expected to ride stages that are steeper, and more technical than most Dh race tracks, on our xc bikes…

i think i’ll leave it the retired Dh pros…

I’ve done Ae and Inners rounds – all on a 140mm bike. Lets face it a modern trail bike is more of a DH bike than the old DH bikes that used to race those tracks was! I didn’t think I was ever under biked.

I’ve never raced DH. I think the courses are bang on for the type of racing: DH but without the massive jumps and drops.

I’ve done Ae and Inners rounds – all on a 140mm bike. Lets face it a modern trail bike is more of a DH bike than the old DH bikes that used to race those tracks was! I didn’t think I was ever under biked.

I’ve never raced DH. I think the courses are bang on for the type of racing: DH but without the massive jumps and drops.

i agree, my point is that the new off-piste bits were too techy for me.

putting my ‘skills’ in context: i’m so crap that i was considered to be a menace to even the other slowest qualifiers, so i was dumped at the back, to wobble down at my own pace behind the fastest riders.

I have raced Dh, I never did very well, but could ride down most courses without much trouble.

old bits of Dh track = no problem, new off-piste bits = sliding down on my face.

the inclusion of extra techy stages seems to be the way these things are going, and for that reason, i’m out. and that, after all is the topic of this thread…

Since the mid 80’s have played at all types of events and enjoyed them, won the odd one but mostly been average. Am now just older, tired of the sort of training to be happy with my own level fitness. Supose my rides have changed and what I get out of it. It’s always been about being there in the hills (alone or social) but more so now. The people that I know that ride are all aging with me and there does not seem to be anyone younger geting involved who are the racers. Noticed the change in average age a few years back while working as a guide, thought that the lazy young gits had all cleared of for downhilling (which was fine) but don’t see people coming back into MTB from that route (happy to be wrong though). To me it seems the whole thing has changed and is perhaps going through another change now. Whenever I go to a trail centre there seems to be plenty going on so perhaps I’m out of the loop real MTB now. It sort of reminds me of what happened to climbing when big climbing walls started to open round the country (not just Stalybridge or Altringham), the crags were empty. yak yal yak ramble ramble.

For me, too expensive and aweful weather, notwistanding the fact I’ve just moved house and we’re expecting a second baby, all of which has knocked my schedule a bit.

Camping in the currently purported to be flooded field at SITS is not appealling and I may bale thier too.

For me I think it is a combination of factors; cost, time, lack of variation of courses.

I’ve done 3x Mayhem 24h solos. The last one I did in 2009 they messed up the timings and the results for the SS class was incomplete. I hear this year they lost laps again and messed up. Echoing Mostly Balanced it is beyond belief that they could not afford to put a covered marquee in the transition area.

I did Bonty 24/12 this weekend. The organisation was great and the timing was spot on. The transition area was covered. Despite the poor conditions it was still a laugh. Sections of the course were taken out as the conditions deteriorated but this meant that lap times remained the same and enjoyable. Whilst Mayhem would turn into a 3hr exercise in wading through treacle.

For me what I am looking in an event is attention to detail. If I am to spend time and money on an event I want it to be value for money.

An example of this was Kielder 100 last year. Great organisation and felt that my money was well spent. Again I enjoyed this event despite 13hrs of rain/drizzle.

Each year I have a budget in terms of money and the number of weekends for such events. My thoughts on next year is to pick fewer events that which offer a more varied format and offer value for money. Strangely I may be spending more money next year doing something like the Bearded Man Race in the Brecons. But if the event is good and I think it is money well spent I don’t mind.

Spending £60 (or whatever) for a Mayhem solo entry + £10 guaranteed 9am delivery and riding on the same course doesn’t real appeal.

Mad Pierre – Member

Those who have commented about “ex-Pro downhillers”: sure they are in the race. That is one of the good things about them. Racing on the same track, in the same race as the pros. You can’t do that in many sports! However they are in different categories to us mere mortals. You actually race your peers.

Pff, don’t say- that- I like to say I beat Crawfy, Chris Ball, and Lewis Buchanan. (puncture; puncture; went home early for his tea. But still.)