I went out for a short ride this morning,it was very murky/foggy. I did my usual interpretation of a Blackpool tram, but the staggering number of cars and bikes without lights on at all left me aghast. I know the world is full of fools (see Brexit), but it was foggy enough for fog lights, so what is their problem? I dare anyone to defend not putting lights on because I will come round and batter them with a cricket bat caked in their own self righteous stupidity.

Well if people are driving at an appropriate speed to see properly*

* this is pretty unreasonable particularly in foggy weather and I promise I was using my very expensive dynamo light setup on the way to and from work all week, despite the lack of fog here.

If it was so foggy how did you see them to know that they didn’t have lights on?

*Awaits cricket bat beating

I actually completely agree with you, but it’s a well known fact that a lot of people are utter ****

I saw a bike yesterday in the dark with only a front light. He was cycling on the road.

The amount of cars I see around with front lights on only, and no rear, is mental. I can only assume it DRL’s, and the oiks think that because the dash is lit, that both front and rear lights are on.

French cars seem to be the worst offenders. Bloody frogs.

That’s exactly what it is NBITF. And the fact that the DRL’s are bright enough to light the road, so it looks to the driver that they are properly on. Cars with DRL’s should have mandatory auto lights.

That’s exactly what it is NBITF.

People driving on murky days without lights on is hardly new, been happening for decades before DRL were introduced….

Personally I think it is because of auto lights – people assume the lights will come on when they are required however (in my experience) they don’t always come on when driving in the daytime in fog as the ambient light is sufficient not to trigger the sensor. Couple that with the fact many cars don’t even have a dashboard indicator for when the lights are on (in my experience Mazda do but Audi and Volvo don’t) and I can see why it happens – people are not used to switching lights on anymore and just assume they will be on when needed.

Cars with DRL’s should have mandatory auto lights.

I suspect they do. It was likely ‘bright fog’ . The sort that makes drivers of those cars not think that they need to do anything.

DRL, a reasonable idea badly implemented. Someone pointed out that they are now mandatory on all new cars – aaagh!

I’ve followed cars at night using just DRL, supposedly it can’t happen but it does.

Im sure my 2018 tranny has front lights on all the time engine is running but maybe no rears so easy to forget but I stick the lights on plenty as you canny flatten your battery like the olde days with even the dash light left on after listening to Meatloaf and trying to get your wicked way with new girlfriend

In general all other lights should remain off when the Daytime Running Lights are on

from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights/daytime-running-lights

That sounds daft to me.

I suspect they do. It was likely ‘bright fog’ . The sort that makes drivers of those cars not think that they need to do anything.

Mine don’t, but clearly could as the lights on the dashboard dim when it gets a bit dim outside the car, until you put the dipped or main beam on. No help in “bright fog” though.

no, DRL are OK , but  they  should not  illuminate  the dashboard lights. So even if the DRL are bright enough the numptys will not be able to see  their speedos.

The other arguement is DRL’s detract from motorbikes being seen as quickly easily as everyone has light on and it dilutes / nullifies the effect

I do think fog lamps should also speed limit vehicles, if its so foggy you need a billion (21 watts ) gigawatts of brightness as ” visabililty is seriously reduced” , then surely 40mph is an acceptable speed limit. The obvious drawback to this is every BMW 320 will switch off their fog lights so they can go 70mph.

Equally stupid are those who sit in traffic queues in town with their rear fog lights on because it is a bit misty.

I think the problem is people can’t judge 100metres visibility and their vehicles don’t have easily visible warning lights to warn them. The one on my Golf is hidden by the steering wheel

In general all other lights should remain off when the Daytime Running Lights are on

DRLs dim (or switch off altogether) when main beams are turned on.

I saw a bike yesterday in the dark with only a front light. He was cycling on the road.

Don’t go to London if that sort of thing upsets you – you’ll explode. Cyclists with no lights everywhere. (Although not particularly hazardous as the traffic is moving at walking speed at most..)

DRL legislation should have made it mandatory for the rear light s to come on too, much safer.  I don’t have DRL’s on my car so I’m conditioned to switch them on without thinking in the dark but when I’ve had a hire car with DRL’s it’s quite shocking how bright they are at night and the dash lit up, easy to see how someone who isn’t a ‘car nut’ or a bit stupid could just drive off without realising.  Also madness that cars can have DRL’s and no automatic lights, asking for trouble!

Thing with fog lights is even when foggy, most of the time in the UK they shouldn’t be on. Dense fogs under 100m visibility or whatever aren’t so common in many areas, yet the instant there’s a sight mist the fogs come on (sure there are some places that do need them more often, but the majority I see are breaking the highway code).

Worse is in the rain. Aside from shouldn’t be using them, rain drops on windscreens magnify the bright fog lights in front and you end up with a blur of red vision.

My main beef though is those with cars that don’t reset the rear fog light when you take the key out of the car. The driver then goes around for the next month with rear fog on.

Front fogs are largely useless also. Minimal need to be able to see the side of the road except maybe in very thick fog, though I’ve never had an issue with just dipped headlights. Huge amount of people run them all the time though.

Anyway, cyclists with no lights, a lot of the problem is shops don’t sell them with the bikes and people have no clue they need them. Gone are the days of cycling proficiency stuff where you’d be taught to fit and use lights, or grim safety films warning of the dangers of not using any. A lot don’t understand lights and either think it’s too much hassle fitting some big bulky thing like you got in the 70s, or get confused by the variety of lights on offer. Plus it costs a lot of money on top of a crappy £50 bike.

Then there are those who use the novelty crap lights for a quid from the bargain bin for a quid and they provide next to zero illumination.

DRL’s half a decent idea. IMO Light both ends or no ends. If conditions suggest the front needs to be lit then so does the back.

It cannot possibly be (have always been) compulsory to have Auto mode with DRLs because otherwise you wouldn’t see cars with just DRLs lit in pitch black. For some reason round our way Land Rover Evoques and French cars seem to be regular offenders for this. I’m guessing they have back lit dashboards.

Auto lights are also a bit crap. My VW ones are ok in fading / low light but not very reliable for mist and there’s no dash display telling you which lights (side or dipped) that Auto has turned on you have to look at the dial (low down on the dash behind the steering wheel).

Totally with the OP too and carry spare batteries for your rear LED light so when it goes flat for the first time you’re not caught out….

Ignoring the fog lights issue, it’s very rare they are needed and there’s nothing worse than following someone that thinks they are, this:

 that because the dash is lit,

Is what I think causes the issue.

The other Half’s Polo dash is lit BUT it dims when it gets dark, so you don’t forget.

My BMW has auto lights so I rarely have to touch them, but the dash is only lit when the headlights are on.

I see plenty of cars with no tail lights

This subject really gets my goat.. I get unreasonably worked up about it on the road. The amount of cars I see with only the front DRL’s on during dim light and adverse driving conditions.. they think because the front lights are on the rear ones “must” be on. Why not just get out and bloody check.

Even worse than that is people driving at night with no lights on.. and the people behind them don’t even flash to let them know!!!

Fiesta’s, new shape transit and anything French seem to be the worst culprits.

Car manufactures should just fit auto headlights to all models.

I see at least one car with only one headlamp working every day without fail

DRL legislation should have made it mandatory for the rear light s to come on too, much safer.

Except the whole point of DRL’s is to make oncoming traffic much easier to see in poor visibility, when a significant number of drivers wouldn’t/couldn’t be bothered to turn their lights on, thereby making headon collisions more likely when people try to overtake, not being able to see clearly an oncoming vehicle in the near distance. With tail-lights everyone is going in the same direction.

As pointed out, most cars have auto-on lights these days, some more sophisticated systems have auto-dip or LED or laser lights that can dip on the offside but maintain high beam on the near side, but they’re fairly uncommon.

And expensive!

A big part of the problem is dashboard lights/instruments that are permanently lit – so most folks see a lit dashboard

and assume their lights are on,  their should be an ambient light sensor – unless auto lights lt – dash lights do not come on in dark.

I tend to just drive around with my lights on all the time. It’s Scotland, with the exception of this summer it’s usually overcast and grey. Not like it blinds anyone, although I do go through a few bulbs.

Tounge in cheek – why aren’t all cars high viz?

 why aren’t all cars high viz?

because they have an accelerator pedal attached to a human brain…that is a safe system

edit as i drive teen antigee around the city (down under) to sport sometimes count how many cyclists see without lights in the dark and how many cars – cars usually win and drivers just ignore them as they flow with the traffic  – of course lots of cyclists also drive cars so it might be they are cyclists without lights but driving a car

Also madness that cars can have DRL’s and no automatic lights, asking for trouble!

Couple of years back I got a car with DRL and I have to admit couple of times when I had parked up facing a wall or similar I missed switching on the proper lights and hence rear lights. They are powerful enough so I could see “lights on” and I guess that short circuited my mind into thinking I had switched the proper ones on. Had to train myself out of it to check for the lights on light on the dash. Took a while.

 but it was foggy enough for fog lights,

A very rare occurrence indeed…

Auto lights don’t recognise foggy  conditions well so don’t think it is dark enough so you end up with front lights but no rear. Same when it rains…

I think ‘why aren’t all cars hi viz?’ Is a reasonable question. In rural areas on an overcast day where there are a lot of trees loads of cars (especially silver or grey ones) blend into the background and are difficult to see if they don’t have their  headlights on.