Do public servants see themselves as a different class of person to the rest of us?

Yes, ones without company cars, annual or performance bonuses, no perks or company credit cards, inflation only pay rises even when times are good.

I work in the private sector, have done all my career. This year, no pay rise, big deal.

Probably not a big deal to you because you already earn more than you would in the public sector anyway.

If you don't like it, change your career, but then you'll complain when your private sector employer doesn't give you a pay rise!

Works both ways, feel free to join the CS doing a job as dull as ditch water for much less money.

45 minutes later, still no email from Dr Dolittle…If you're scared you can bring Aziz as well

I don't get why public servants moan. They're obviously not well qualified otherwise they would have gone into Banking/Law/Accounting/Proper Job etc etc..

Dave will complete Margaret's work when he smashes the rest of the Unions and the Public Sector joins the real world

I think DaveB's in need of help!

crikey – Member
Get a real job!

Enlighten us all lovey, what exactly do you do?

…and how much do you get paid?

…and how long have you been doing said job?

…and how much training did it require?

…and how much responsibility does it involve?

Ducked out from the awkward questions again?

Not ducking, just our for a pint…

i) a trade relevant to this site
ii) under 25k, from which I took a 10k pay cut to work in this trade – If I can take a 10K pay cut to do a job I want to, you can accept a pay freeze to stay in the job you're in, or if you're not happy taking that, go and do something completely different instead
iii) 2 years, after a previous 12 year career, see, you can teach an old dog new tricks
iv) I'm one of only two people in the country trained to do my job, previous job one of only a few hundred in the UK with the licences to do the job and in permanent demand.
v) Multi million £ turnover with a slack handful of 6 figure clients who I handle the accounts for.

So,if you don't want to take the pay freeze, hand in your notice and walk!

and we're double figures percentage points ahead of budget

I don't get why public servants moan. They're obviously not well qualified otherwise they would have gone into Banking/Law/Accounting/Proper Job etc etc..

I know those dumb ass doctors what were they thinking of with all those amoral professions to join.

Doctors, are the reverse 1% though. Show me a doctor who earns less than £150k per annum

Or all those under qualified teachers, surveyors, accountants, lawyers, nurses, archaeologists etc, what were they thinking?

#Puts "Tramp the dirt down" on the stereo and sits in his self-satisfied guardian reading, trade union supporting smugness 😉

45 minutes later, still no email from Dr Dolittle..

That's because I turned up and you chickened out…again…

Most GPs, junior doctors, or anyone not a senior consultant you mean?

Junior doctors

Junior doctors earn a basic salary and will usually be paid a supplement. This supplement is based on the extra hours worked above a 40 hour standard working week and the intensity of the work. The most common banding supplement is 50% of basic salary. In the most junior hospital doctor post (foundation year 1) a doctor on a 50% supplement would earn £33,285. This increases in the second year (foundation year 2) to £41,285. A doctor in specialist training on a 50% supplement could earn from £44,117 to £69,369.

Specialty doctor and associate specialist (2008) (SAS doctors)

Doctors in the new specialty doctor grade earn between £36,443and £67,959. See http://www.nhsemployers.org/sas for more details.

Consultants

Consultants can earn between £74,504 to £176,242, dependent on length of service and payment of additional performance related awards.

General practitioners

Many general practitioners (GPs) are self employed and hold contracts, either on their own or as part of a partnership, with their local primary care trust (PCT). The profit of GPs varies according to the services they provide for their patients and the way they choose to provide these services.

Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £53,249 to 80,354, dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience.

from here, so quite a lot of them.

fine, a well paid job, but not 150k+, and considering the time, effort and expense training, why not pay them well. after all, where would we be without them.

I'm a doctor and I earn considerably less than 150k

The ones that really wind me up are all the chinless local council employees.

I wouldn't bother answering Lanesra – he is an ignorant poor quality troll. Its a waste of time

🙄 As I said Dolittle (lots of times before) my emails in my profile, mail me and we'll meet up, or are you that much of a pussy

PS meta data in your picture 😉

I wouldn't bother answering Lanesra – he is an ignorant poor quality troll. Its a waste of time

Maybe so, but is it a waste of my time fighting him? I've been trying for ages, but he keeps missing appointments and crying "patsy's paps, patsy's paps" everytime he surfaces.

I suspect dr dolittle it is – his skull will be too thick to knock any sense into and his mind and ears are closed.

tinribz – I don't have a company car, or company credit card. I do earn an annual bonus, and I earn over $180K/yr.

I also studied for a long time, worked in this career for over twenty years, and left the UK, just to earn what I get.

So why should I quit this to become a public service whinger in the UK? 😆

You still lying dolittle 🙄 Tell you what seeing as you're to scared to mail me or meet in Islington, how about the Hobgoblin, Balcombe Street tomorrow 1pm

Or, I could pop round to Aziz's

Either way your a shithouse – I've thrown my real name/life up here – yours was easy to find

You still lying dolittle

No I'm not,

Albion Road circa 11pm tonight. You chickened out again.

Either way your a shithouse – I've thrown my real name/life up here – yours was easy to find

Go on, what's my real name?

Or, I could pop round to Aziz's

I haven't read any of this thread (just clocked the last couple of posts) but I can inform you that Aziz won't be home tomorrow at 1pm. And later on, he'll be meeting up with me. HTH

Go on, what's my real name?

You do realise naming the picture/album Arsenal in your photobucket account doesn't lead back to you, I guess

Anyway for the millionth time my emails in my profile, if you really want a fight, why not mail me and we'll arrange a mutually convinvient time.

Seeing as Ernies popped in to back you up, you can bring him, Aziz and yourself.

I'm guessing you'll bottle it, again

You do realise naming the picture/album Arsenal in your photobucket account doesn't lead back to you, I guess

Arsenal? I named it Arsenail.

Anyway, what's my name?, what's my name? 😆

The private sector which pays for the public sector has shrunk over the last couple of years. However the public sector hasn't shrunk at all therefore government spending and borrowing has become unsustainable. Either the public sector shrinks or taxes go up and/or borrowing goes up. I'm sure all the lefties on here would be happy to pay more tax (so would I actually if I thought it would be used effectively but that's another argument) but it would probably have to go up to electoral suicide levels for any party that took that course. Oh and Crikey you seem to have conveniently overlooked that Chancellor Darling has just announced a freeze for some public employees and if you think he'll stop there if he's re-elected you're very naive.

I have friends working in the private sector who have lost their jobs and/or had to take pay cuts over the last couple of years. I think its about time the public sector shared the pain.

uponthedowns +1

Public sector worker here (Nurse).

I agree that we will have to share the pain, unpalateable as that is, for the counrty to get out of this mess we're in.

I do feel that those who are most responsible for the mess seem to be getting away scotfree, whether that's really the case I don't know, but it's the public perception.

What galls many of my colleagues (and me too a bit) is that when the economy was doing well, profits everywhere, and friends in the private sectors were getting big rises and bonuses, the public sector had low rises to control inflation and 'prevent the economy overheating' as I heard it put.

Now you can all say 'if you don't like it then leave', but I do like my job, feel I make a difference and help people everyday. And the country would be a worse place if the only people you got in Nursing were those who weren't good enough to get jobs elsewhere.

Always seems like a kick in the teeth when I come on here and many of you think I'm a workshy, unskilled tosser who's overpaid and worthless.

Always seems like a kick in the teeth when I come on here and many of you think I'm a workshy, unskilled tosser who's overpaid and worthless.

You need to remember that it's only opinionated ignorant fools with low self esteem who feel the need to demonise large sections of the workforce to make themselves feel better.

The public sector have too many "Managers" who couldn't organise a p*$$ up in a brewery – with SOME of the workforce who see sick leave as an additional holiday entitlement.

The trouble is there are proposed redundancies in some sectors of the CS which will target those who actually do the work not the managers who earn god-knows-how-much plus a performance bonus for doing chuff-all.

In the nicest possible way OP- was this thread started as a troll?

Lanesra/Drdoolittle. Cut it out. Your grown men not teenagers.

I'd just like to add. OP Is this a form of NIMBYism?

I have worked in both, currently in Public Sector. In both there have been good and bad, hard working conscientious and workshy lazybones.

One thing about the Public sector it is very old fashioned and resistant to change. It seems to reward mediocrity, making people managers who are utterly devoid of leadership quality.

Private seem to be all about profit and screwing anyone and everything to get ahead.

An argument you will never sort on a VTT forum 😉

Dangerousbeans, far from the public sector having had controlled pay rises in the good years, the public sector has consistently had larger pay increases than the private sector, with the result that median public sector salaries are now far higher than the private sector: national statistics

Throw in declining public sector productivity, guaranteed pensions – TandemJeremy's £2K person contribution to the NHS scheme probably covers about 6% of the actual benefit which is equivalent to 35 per cent of salary and you land up with a problem.

Now take away the 25% or so of all tax receipts that the banks were responsible for and you've reached "Darlings' Dilemma" which is that:

1. The country is now borrowing nearly £6,000 a second, or £478m *a day*
2. For every £1 of income tax received, the chancellor borrows another £1 and spends £2 on benefits
3. We have the greatest national debt in the country's history

Set this against a year when most private sector employees (still earning less than their public sector peers) have had redundancies, no pay rises, a massive drop in the value of their pensions, and it's quite easy to see why politicians on all side are now in agreement that something needs to be done.

ONe significant problem with the public sector is the introduction of external consultants and procurement/commissioners, in general on high salaries with no idea of what the services are trying to achievce. They create new 'sexy' ways of working………….see the guardian society yesterday for social enterprise guru using corporate terms for a simple community based solution. Rubbish and tosh introduced as effective and creative management, just some freeloaders carpet bagging imho. I see expensive companies fleecing councils and NHS for sheer gooblygook.

There are several areas to the Public sector and given the recent job evaluations across councils pay is generally lower for more people now,and given that some of these staff work with the most vunerable and deprived pay and terms and conditions are pretty low especially when things go wrong, social workers and child deaths, police and not catching criminials and so on.

Overall there are savings that could be made in services that are already stretched both budget wise and staff wise, see id cards and other govt fluff but there is a sybotic relationship between public and private as was mentioned before so look a bit wider than oh all public sector is crap, my experience of private sector in the last 20 yrs has been shocking especially in relation to bankers, city finances ( oh you know Jonny have a job!) Construction and so on. Public sector workers are in the general hard working individuals

Lanesra, does Dr Dolittle want to fight you?? I had the impression you were going to enagage in some angry intercourse or something. 🙂 This could be the beginning of another beautiful STW love story. Hope you guys catch up soon!

Oh and fwiw NHS had a below inflation pay rise the other year (although they tried to dres it up as a 'staged pay award'). Does that count as a wage freeze too?

Set this against a year when most private sector employees (still earning less than their public sector peers) have had redundancies, no pay rises, a massive drop in the value of their pensions, and it's quite easy to see why politicians on all side are now in agreement that something needs to be done.

Yep, just before the general election though Labour will backtrack on this to land alot of votes.

Lanesra/Dolittle – what goes on the internet isnt real life. Its a vent/moshpit. Imagine, the Police are called and are interviewing both of you. 'So how did the arguement start Sir'? 'It was him, on the internet, in a forum'…..

Jeeesus, imagine how the officers will look at you like your idiots.

Come on. 😀

Lanesra, does Dr Dolittle want to fight you??

Directon is wrong
Lansera wants to fight any "internet warrior" who disagrees with him.
Despite the tragedy that he has suffered as a result of pointless violence and thuggery he seems keen to share it out with anyone who does not share his world view …which is pretty much anyone.

I await my invite to some part of London from the brave man who publicly shares his internet based Gmail account. I beleive no act is braver.

the public sector is hugely overstaffed and seriously underperforming across all areas.

this is due to extensive contracting out and reliance on consultants, who make the system appear leaner than it actually is, hence why the general public/private sector workers cannot understand why there are so many civil servants on such poor wages. They dont understand it, so they dont believe it.

Soobalias – evidence? I tell you that the NHS is not overstafffed by any means. Evidence – my own eyes.

hora – Member

Lanesra/Dolittle – what goes on the internet isnt real life.

Seriously? Winding up Lanesra feels like fun and that's good enough for me 😆

On the one hand, George is making poorly-paid, valuable people (such as newly qualified nurses) worse off. On the other, he is quietly making the rich better off through raising the IHT threshold. That's because he is a c***.

Same old tories.