Hello all,

TL:DR – Frustrated and bored materials scientist thinks he needs a project management qualification to get career going again. Where in Manchester should this be obtained?

As the background leading to the topic of this post:
My career has stagnated somewhat, having initially started with rapid progression after leaving uni with a materials science masters ~10 years ago. I’ve been with the same engineering consultancy in Manchester running test programmes since. The last 3-4 years I’ve been prepared to slow down somewhat to take care of various things in my personal life, but frustrations have grown. Now I feel less pressure outside of work and realise I’m in desperate need of a change. I don’t think my future lies with the Company I’m currently with. I just can’t see how it could.

I feel like my role has developed me into a reasonable project manager and as my technical skills haven’t needed flexing for some time this is the direction I’m heading in, for better or worse. I feel that a number of roles I see advertised require some sort of qualification such as PRINCE2 and my not having such a bit of paper is a barrier for me.

As such I think I might need to get such a bit of paper. Searching for PM qualifications online gives lots of providers and it’s a bit overwhelming. Can anyone suggest a ‘good’ (subjective I know) qualification and who in Manchester might be trusted to qualify me?

Been here yet and hit the course finder? https://www.apm.org.uk/qualifications-and-training/

Just do it online.

There’s two broad churches of project management, AMP and Prince2. The latter was developed by the civil service so tends to be more commonplace in organisations like the NHS, but obviously spread beyond that.

I did the 1 week APM course, the course itself is straightforward enough, if you can remember some definitions and processes then it’s easy enough to learn what you need to (the syllabus book is HUGE, but not all of it is covered).

The exam is pretty brutal though. It’s a pick questions from a set and answer them type affair, and there is no leeway on time, you have to pretty much be writing from the first till the last minute to get it answered, not a leisurely plan your essay out then write it affair, you come out of it with cramp and blisters. So you have to really be confident that you know the course material as there certainly isn’t time to get halfway into a question, realize you don’t know it entirely and try another one, you just won’t finish. On the upside, the questions are quite formulaic. Define/describe/explain are all worth a number of marks each so you can figure out how much to write as long as you know whatever they’re talking about inside out.

But even then it’s not easy, IIRC I got full marks on the maths and graphical questions, knew the answers to the rest and still only got 80-something percent overall.

Definitely one of the harder courses I’ve done, certainly not one of those where you turn up for 5 days going through the motions and get a certificate for your CPD and an invoice at the end.

Can’t say it seems to have opened any doors to me, but still worth doing if you’re involved in setting up larger projects (ones where you’ll be writing procedures, philosophies, standards etc), there’s a lot more content than just reading gant charts and doing MPP’s.

IIRC they also do a Prince2 conversion which is quicker, they only really differ in the definitions of things, the principals are the same. If you do one or the other, you could probably just get the other book and familiarize yourself with it so I wouldn’t worry too much about picking between them unless you plan on working in the public sector much in which case do P2.

Hi huckersneck.  Both APM and Prince2 will teach you about structured project management using a methodology that can scaled based on investment/risk/control required. They will reinforce your CV with a qualification but that’s it.

I would look at PMI and their certification process.  It uses your real-world experience and development to demonstrate your capability.

Heading up change delivery and governance teams of different types , I have recruited PM’s, Programme Managers, Portfolio Managers, PMO resources for nearly 20 years.  Prince2 is a common qualification, which does not tell you how competent someone is in the real world, APM is similar – and as such don’t tell you much. PMI requires more commitment and dedication to obtain and maintain – so that tells me more.

More than any qualification though, the ability to define your experience in delivery highlighting your key successes in an engaging way, is more likely to get attention though – especially for senior roles.

Worth noting, APM is the only body that can offer Chartership (if that matters to you)

I did ‘project management’ for several years in a pharma R&D environment with no special qualification. In the latter stages of that role I did PRINCE2, essentially as we had unspent training budget and it seemed like a good idea at the time.

There’s foundation and practitioner level. IMO there is absolutely no point in just doing foundation, take a combined course that gets you the practioner qualification.

To be honest, I learnt very little from PRINCE2. However, I had been in a PM role in a mature organisation for a while so the PM role was well established. If I was new to the role or worked at a company trying to set up a PMO, it would have been more valuable.

I’d consider if an Agile approach / qualification might be useful?
It’s not only for service development.

All our professional PMs in the UK go the APM route.

Prince2 popularity seems to be waning even in the public sector, and offers no progression route in terms of pure PM skills. It really pushes you towards other OGC courses such as MSP (programme) and MoP (portfolios). Jobs asking for Prince2 will likely accept similar offerings from APM or PMI.

I did the MSc at Lancaster 20 years ago.

Full time away, so nightmare workload, but an MSc in 15 months while working.

Worth noting, APM is the only body that can offer Chartership (if that matters to you)

Very good point!

I did Managing Successful Programmes at QA in Manchester – the instructor was very good.

I am currently doing the Agile/DevOps courses on our internal University and would focus there were I entering the business now. Feels like P2 and PMI’s days are numbered. I have been Prince 2 qualified in the past, but now it just feels like a 80’s technology – like CD’s, why would you?

I don’t think you’d go wrong doing APM as an easy introduction to the area.

I’ve rarely experienced PRINCEII despite being qualified in it and worked on numerous govt programmes but people still value it, if only to stick on a cv or to impart theory via the manual if required.

Agile seems to be popular amongst the more IT dev ops work I’m involved in but even that seems to depend on who’s running what.

You can run Waterfall & Agile together…  Prince2 is agnostic.

FWIW I view PRINCE2 as analogue technology in a digital world.

Look to something a bit more up to date.

Agile seems to be on the wane too. A couple of years ago it was all the rage, but doesn’t seem to have quite the cachet it once did.

Fraid I can’t be much more help, but if you can predict the next big thing in terms of PM, you’ll likely be quids in when it hits the mainstream.

Good luck!

Agile seems to be on the wane too. A couple of years ago it was all the rage, but doesn’t seem to have quite the cachet it once did.

Classic Gartner hype cycle stuff

Hello everyone and thankyou for your contributions. I realise now that I did not reply at the time as I thought I had! Thankyou again. Unsurprisingly there seems to be a lot of experience in the ‘room’. Shouldn’t be a shock really as this is STW after all.

A few different opinions on what has value and what not.
I agree @jamj1974 that highlighting personal experience and success is key. I feel that I am able to do this but, since my initial post, have spoken with siome recruiters who seem to think my lack of certificate is a disadvantage. I may have been speaking with the wrong people.

The prospect of upgrading a qualification form APM to Chartered status is appealing, so thanks for raising my awareness of this @mashr. I like the option to progress.

Interesting to hear that some experience suggests Agile as not being all that.

Lockdown has meant my free time becoming all but non-existant, Otherwise an online, doing it in your own time style course woudl probably be my preference. As it is it’d be easier to take a week’s leave and do a led course. Not an ideal way to spend leave mind you! All about the end game though…

I did the APM course as a weekly night school thing at Leeds Beckett, paid for by my employer. Years ago now mind! There was a mix of people on it who were wanting to get into project management, and then people like me who were experienced but not qualified. It was quite useful in providing some practical tools rather than just a list of terms, and I felt that it gave more of a rounded theory of project management than a single methodology like PRINCE2. I can’t guarantee that it’s a fast track route from multi million pound procurement projects to bike journalism though 😉

I thought you bought an old house then asked your teenage daughter to ‘project manage’ the builders? That seems to be the way it works in those telly programs in the afternoon.