Probably a very basic riding skills question….

A little light reflection on my recent wild boar chase experience has thrown up (probably) a very basic question about rocky descents.

I was riding a 100mm FS 29er and on a number of the long rocky descents I found myself constantly having guys hammer down past me on hard tails and alike. I was slow and tentative! Whilst I’m not a very experienced or particularly brave rider some of these guys made it look a lot easier and smoother than I was feeling.

Simple question:
What is limiting by ability to go down XC descents like this faster?
– Technique and practice ie picking the line etc
– Balls
– Speed – is faster better despite being against logic – skip across the top rather than finding every crevice and rut?
– Bike setup like rebound and general bounciness

I know it’s basic and I’m happy to take some stick but genuinely interested.

Happy (slow) trails

Chris

Book a coaching session – eg Tony at UK Bikeskills, best money you’ll ever spend on biking. Most sports you’d take a few lessons at least, why not biking.

Probably a bit of everything really. Riding on your own tends to see you het caught in a rut as it where. Riding with others you will progress faster imo, people push you on and you see first hand whats do-able. Going a bit faster will help you skip over stuff, its a bit like skiing in that regard. Bike setup I am sure you could tweek but its a relatively small factor in your case I think. Lastly speed isn’t everything, as long as you’re having fun thats all that matters really.

Balls without technique ends in hospital
Speed without technique ends in hospital

Bike setup, in some ways knowing why it’s not right comes from technique

(is there a theme up there)

Coaching session sounds like a plan

Thanks

Do you have a dropper post?

Yup, reverb sunk and had my arse back like the pros! Made no difference!

I wouldn’t start with a skills session but no harm in it really . Just look at attack position on the net , so so important I think . really think about your weight and position on the bike . keep riding with the quick people and don’t be afraid to just watch them and keep doing the same run until you feel you are making progress . Good luck

Yup, reverb sunk and had my arse back like the pros! Made no difference!

How steep are these descents? You don’t need to be hanging off the back unless it’s really steep.

As above, attack position and learn to ride ‘light’. Don’t have your arms and legs rigid, let the bike move around underneath you. And brakes generally aren’t you’re friend on rocks, try to stay off them where you can

How steep are these descents? You don’t need to be hanging off the back unless it’s really steep.

Yup, that was one of the things I learned when I went on skills course. That, and go get a dropper post 🙂

(And a few other things).

Keep it loose, let the bike move under you, try and stay relaxed

Tony at UK Bike Skills will tell you that the’attack position’ is bollocks…

I know the fast rocky descent your talking about. It wasn’t particularly technical but could of got you in trouble if not careful. The secret was to stay off the brakes and pick your line by looking well ahead. I was on a 29er 80mm travel.

Tony at UK Bike Skills will tell you that the’attack position’ is bollocks…

Tony obviously knows a lot more about riding a bike than I do, but my interpretation of the attack position is arms slightly bent, elbows out (don’t exaggerate the elbows out, just not locked) knees bent, hovering above the saddle (height variable), but don’t take the attack position as a fixed position, subtle weight shifts are required dependant on the terrain. Don’t know what’s bollocks about that, but maybe I’m a shit rider. That said, if you rode in a fixed ‘attack position’ with little movement, then it would be a compromise

Yup, reverb sunk and had my arse back like the pros

That’s what I use to think (and ride like) too, then I did a coaching session with Ridelines at Glentress – Dirt School also has a good rep too.

My pal booked a day for the two of us early last year, best upgrade I’ve ever ‘bought’. I went from an XC mincer who kinda fell down stuff to someone who can now ride (not particularly fast, but safe) all the local EWS stuff and more locally. Not really scared like I use to be either.

It’s very difficult to give advice without seeing someone ride but i’d guess that you’re not looking far enough up the trail. Try this first and you might be surprised to find your speed will increase without doing anything else.

Tony at UK Bike Skills will tell you that the ‘attack position’ is bollocks…

There is no one ‘attack position’ as how you are on the bike will depends on the terrain, your speed and the type of bike you are on (i don’t ride my HT in the same way as my FS). You see a lot of ‘coached’ guys looking like they are going fast but they aren’t. Their body position is exaggerated in a comedic way, especially in corners.

I recall a thread a few years back about jumping and there was a lot of talk of ‘heels down’. I’ve been jumping for years and my heels aren’t down but i can see why a coach would suggest it. It’s not about the heels being down but about getting your lower body the the correct position.

The two parts of the body that touch the bike when riding are hands and feet. You can’t ride off road properly if you feet/legs and wrists/arms are stiff and rigid. I’d guess coaches use ‘Heels down’ as an aid get the lower body relaxed and loose and ‘attack position’ to help keep the arms/shoulders loose. From what i gather it seems to work, so a coaching lesson might be a good idea.

p.s. Don’t go down the bike setup route. I read this all the time and it bugs the crap out of me. Once you can ride a bike properly, it really doesn’t matter how soft you forks are or how steep you head angle is.

Hmmm I think I’m the typical ‘read it online or seen it on YouTube but don’t ride with other people often’ rider

Thanks for all the advice

Hours on the bike definitely help, like all things you get more skilled over time as you get to know what you can get away with!
As jambalaya said training is a good idea and a session with Tony at Bikeskills UK would give you a lot of confidence and skills you can use that will stay with you.

Ok, next question is where can I buy more hours in the day?! Bugger!

Thanks all, appreciate the collective advice

I went out with Ed Oxley and picked up a few simple things that help tremendously. What helps me now is

My visor is stuck up a bit with tape so I can look up more
Look miles in front and don’t bother looking at anything within about 4m in front of me (as you do when driving a car)
Widen the knees out on a bow-legged type stance
Lean forward a bit
Bend elbows to about 135degrees
Push toes up and heels down
Bend knees. Let bike bounce all over the place but absorb that so the core trunk of the body travels in a less bumpy fashion

C

Tony at UK Bike Skills will tell you that the’attack position’ is bollocks…

He’s a man of strong opinions, but it’s not really as if all the other coaches are teaching completely the wrong thing, is it?

OP – Do you have knowledgable riding pals to help you set up your suspension? I think you’re on the right track with your “skimming over the top” comment.

everything above, but practice is the key.

when you find a suitably challenging section, stop and session it.

try the tips mentioned, you will probably be riding it twice as fast and lot more comfortably after half an hour 🙂

everything above, but practice is the key.

when you find a suitably challenging section, stop and session it.

try the tips mentioned, you will probably be riding it twice as fast and lot more comfortably after half an hour 🙂

ChrisE covers it, especially looking ahead. Don’t pick out individual rocks and ride them ( unless they’re massive but that’s different), pick a line, stay relaxed and let the bike move through it – which its where speed helps.

Thanks all. The downside is I don’t have any friends who ride at any standard. Think the plan is to get more time on the bike!

Speed is your friend, as is looking further down the trail.

While you can “learn” from the internet (In the same way as Google can show you how to cure ebola and win the lottery), spending a session with a coach will show you how to improve quickly and safely. +1 for Tony.

As others have said, and what I’m very bad at, a lot of it is looking ahead, not at the bit just in front of your front wheel.

See if there are any local mtb clubs you can join, as others have said riding with other riders pushes you to do things you wouldn’t normally try. I’m not talking peer pressure (well maybe a little) but more actually seeing what can be ridden and how.

Big rocky descents don’t tend to be a thing taught at skills sessions. I think they’re something that comes from general skills on a bike.

technique?
Yes, look a long way ahead, pick a smooth line. Ride loose – you’ve far more suspension in your arms and legs than on the bike – if you’re stiff you’ll bounce off stuff. Keep your weight low ( not off the back) – drop your heels – that will all help the bike roll over stuff. Don’t just slam into things – you should be Unweighting the front to help the bike over bigger stuff.

Speed and balls ?
Bad idea. I hurt myself if I try to ride fast. Ride slow and smooth and the speed will come by itself. There are things that are harder to ride slowly but you pick up more skill doing it than bombing down out of control. The one exception is really rocky “baby’s head” type descents where you need a decent amount of momentum to keep moving

Bike setup.
A little – a lot of people have forks set too firm and too slow. Too slow will mean the fork will pack down on a long rocky descent. Too firm means you’re not getting the benefit of the travel. Same with the rear shock.

Look for where you want to go not for the obstacles – easily said harder to do

Fast and loose is you’re friend on loose rocky descents. Up to a certain point. That point being just before you find yourself lying on the floor making animal noises wondering what the hell happened. As others have said, look where you want to go, turn your body in that direction and the bike will follow, and let the bike bike move underneath you. For practice, get yourself up to the Peak District for a few days, lots of rocky descents of varying degrees of arse clenching

If I remember my jedi training correctly, it’s not necessarily that the attack position itself is wrong (ie balanced, good body position, head up, pedals in right place, etc etc) it’s calling it ‘attack’ he doesn’t like.

+1 milko9000

Saying do the “Attack Position” doesn’t make it work. understanding the other bits does, one of the reasons that coaching works well is the feedback you get from the coach and the understanding of whats going on

I think Jedi calls it the ready position rather than attack .

Well the good news OP is that you now know it’s possible to go faster than you are going! The worst thing with riding on your own is that you can convince yourself you’re absolutely flying, when in reality, you ain’t!

Riding with people slightly faster than you is the best way to progress. If they are too much faster they either drop you too soon, or you take silly risks trying to keep up and hurt yourself. You need to find someone say 10 or 15% faster. Follow their lines, watch as they move the bike and their mass around etc. What do they do with their feet, the pedals, are they pumping to unweight. All those small, often subtle things that all add up to make a big difference.

Once you have the basics nailed, and they are second nature and you can do them without thinking about them, then you can move on to the second phase of going “fast” which is line choice! The pro’s go fast because they aren’t rising the same trails as you and i! By which i mean they are gapping, popping, bunnyhopping, doing anything to not even touch the rougher parts of the trail. They carry speed through turns, and use there mass to keep the bike flowing down the trail. Watch Richie Rude in the latest EWS vids for example, even with a completely flat rear tyre he’s flowing down those trails at mach3, yet looks soooo smooth. But look a bit closer and you can see how hard he is working to achieve that, in terms of applying his mass at an appropriate time!

Big rocky descents don’t tend to be a thing taught at skills sessions. I think they’re something that comes from general skills on a bike.

Pay for a day and you can do anything you want, but better to learn the basic stuff first.

How long have you been riding?