what utter bollocks. I bored loads of kids today!

Me too, but I’d make a distinction between being bored through not being challenged and being bored because you’re learning to combine uncertainties.

I bored loads of kids today

With what? How?

@bernard as you have a good state school nearby and the cost is a consideration I’d be tempted to lean towards not sending him. You can spend a little on extra tutoring and activities outside school and to be honest the biggest contribution you can make is engaging with him yourself as parents and hopefully instilling in him a sense of the value of education.

FWIW my three kids went to private school with the youngest two deciding they wanted to go to state college for A levels. The odd thing that always struck me is you are aiming at the end of your schooling for university which is a state run system. I am not sure if given the choice again I would do the same. The local state schools are good, as indeed where the private ones, and my kids are all reasonably smart, I think they would have done as well academically anyway and their sporting and extra curricular achievements where all at outside sports clubs. The two at state college did just as well as the one who went privately. I went to a state school and got into decent Unis for BSc and MSc. in most of Europe a private system doesn’t exit, I’d rather see class sizes of 20-25 max in the UK and a decent amount invested in education.

@sharkbait – that’s quite some generosity, chapeau to him

@aa “rich” parents presumably pay “extra” for state schools through higher taxation already, I have to say I thought he was talking bollix with that article.

The odd thing that always struck me is you are aiming at the end of your schooling for university which is a state run system.

It also has very large ‘class’ sizes.

anagallis_arvensis – Member

I don’t think kids get a chance to be bored in school anymore; there’s a constant drive to get every child ‘above expected progress’.

what utter bollocks. I bored loads of kids today!

You are my son’s science teacher and I claim my £5.

Those at universities have often mentioned how students have been so protected by their parents that they arrive at university very few life skills.

Did their parents move into the boarding houses as well?

AA 😀

I was wondering about using the inequality thread for some essay titles. I decided to wait until DD has finished the OECD report to ask for his next suggestion though…looks forward with anticipation.

Did their parents move into the boarding houses as well?

Private schooling doesn’t necessarily mean boarding.

Everyone seems to be concentrating purely on academic grades, but what about those essential life skills? Ones you now can’t imagine getting through young adulthood without. You know…. The peer to peer stuff passed down from your elders…. The meat and drink of a northern comprehensive education.

Knowing how to hot-wire a Vauxhall Astra, for those rainy evenings when there are no cabs? The teamwork involved in giving the security guards the slip while shoplifting in the Arndale? How to score weed in a pub with a flat roof without getting taxed?

How on earth are those poor middle class kids going to cope in the real world? Eh? How? What kind of start in life are you giving them?

It was a joke mike in response to the sweeping use of anecdote. 😉

It was a joke mike in response to the sweeping use of anecdote.

Perhaps I missed it because I spent my time in state school learning to hotwire Astras*? 🙂

Jamb.. I kind of lean to state school but I have in recent weeks argued both sides of the coin. I just get the feeling the state school has so much pressure to get ‘all’ kids to a certain level, those kids that get to that level quickly fall off the radar while the focus moves to those who need extra help. Not that I’m blaming the teachers/school I understand why it happens.

From my own experience my rugby tour when I was a kid, two days in wales. The private school….a week in South Africa ….what I wouldn’t give for that opportunity.

With what? How?

the mechanism of ventilation with year 11 was pretty dull!

I just get the feeling the state school has so much pressure to get ‘all’ kids to a certain level, those kids that get to that level quickly fall off the radar while the focus moves to those who need extra help.

The days of being ignored if you’re a guaranteed 5Cs are gone, thankfully. Targets for GCSE attainment are set based upon Y6 SATs for each individual student, and schools are judged based upon those who meet expected outcomes and those who exceed them.

Two massive hints for you.

Accent

Banter

HTH

Those were the ones which tripped me up constantly. One girl was Hull born and bred, loved football and had the broadest Hull accent i’ve ever heard. Decent private school and a first in jurisprudence from Oxford.

IMO the only thing their accent and banter told me was what their parents were probably like!

You’re right to an extent though when you apply it the other way round, it was less common for someone with RP and talked of going sailing at the weekend to have come from a state schooled background.

I think its like anything, you only get out what you put in. I went to a selective, all boys state school with a fantastic reputation and to be honest i squandered it. However, although academically i maybe didn’t do as well as i should have done, i had some pretty spectacular experiences. From rugby tours to Japan, Hong Kong and Australia to geography trips to Iceland. All things that wouldn’t have been possible at the local comp (and a lot of private schools as well tbh).

when i have kids im going to leave the decision of school completely up to them.

Sounds like Bristol is very like Edinburgh; a large amount of the middle kids go to private schools to avoid them having to mix with riff-raff. Of course this is a self fulfilling prophecy as it serves to make the small proportion of problem kids in the state sector into a larger proportion.
The idea of paying twice for my children’s education seem daft to me (pay for state education through my taxes). I just don’t understand where people get the 40K a year to put 3 kids through schooling…but then I’m a joiner, not a solicitor.

I wanted private (public) schooling for Jr, my wife didn’t particularly but agreed to it after a particularly grim Ofsted for the local village school.

Pleased with how its going, and (at age 4.5) haven’t bumped up against any of the problem friends with children in the same year are having with mixed year group classes and the like.

We may well move her to a different (feeder) school at 7, but we’ll see where we’re at when we get there.

Further, there’s a paper written on educational attainment by birth month – big picture stats had only the privately educated summer borns not losing ground to the older kids in their cohort.

I can only offer my own experience on this but can understand why the OP might be torn on the issue. I went to what I thought was a pretty good state school. Had the option to go to private school when I started secondary – discussed with my parents many times but at the end of the day didn’t want to leave my friends or travel an extra 30 mins each way so ended up in state secondary. As I said it seemed decent enough at the time to me, but my first year at a slightly posh uni was incredibly tough being surrounded by many privately educated people. I went from top of my year for some subjects to struggling to pass. Plus found it hard to engage in a lot of conversations regarding arts, literature and history. But what really stood out for me was how well read and more cultured a lot of the other students at uni were. I felt inadequate and spent a lot of time and effort trying to get on an even playing field. That said, my lack of knowledge and experience with certain things may have partly been due to other factors such as upbringing, household habits and so on. A friend of mine studied teaching and was placed in my old secondary for a placement – the tutors made it clear the school did not have a great reputation. So in short much of this is in the eye of the beholder.

I’ve since tutored kids in state and private education and from that experience I would not send kids to private as it can often breed spoiled, entitled little brats. But that too could be an impact of their parents.

Do your research on how good the state options actually are and think about where your kids might wanna end up if you can.

Watch it folks. You’re creating a critical mass of terminal middle-classness, never seen before, even on here! 😯

If it goes nuclear, which we must be getting close too now, the whole internet will implode, taking us all with it, into the much feared Waitrosian Vortex

For everyone’s benefit go and do something unthinkably non middle class!!!! Quick!!!! Eat a slice of Warburtons Toastie loaf!!!! With primula on!!! Drink a can of Stella!!!! For the sake of all humanity!!!!!

Daughter Seadog did private school until GCSE’s and did very well (A* across the board). She wasn’t very happy there so has moved to local state school for A Levels at her request. She’s still doing brilliantly, and is far happier.

Seadog Son is at the same state school, and again doing great things.

Private schools can be worth the money, but it’s not always for the best.

Markie…that something to consider both mine are summer born.

Quite surprised how many people went to private schools, I don’t know anyone that did…

My school was pretty decent though but out of ~300 people my age only 1 got into Oxbridge despite there being many people with all A’s. Might be something to do with his brother being there already and his dad being very wealthy

CBA reading the whole thread but isn’t there quite a bit of evidence that the attitudes instilled in you by your parents when you’re young are the biggest indicators of future success and that the importance of schooling standards is massively overblown?

Private schools entrench divisions and elitism and should be phased out or publicly funded and places awarded purely on merit.

Comprehensive school here and I’m alright, as are most of my mates (international human rights PhD, aerospace engineer, lawyer, teacher, graphic designer etc)

Oh and the 3 year old kid shouting to his brother axel ‘f*** off kn**b head’ through the class room window while his mum watched on and said nothing may have started me thinking about it a bit more. Why this shocked me I have no idea I’m hardly the most refined of people.

You’re right to an extent though when you apply it the other way round, it was less common for someone with RP and talked of going sailing at the weekend to have come from a state schooled background.

…TBF when you posted:

BUT, there was nothing which ever gave away what sort of secondary eduction they had. Ever.

…you sounded as though you thought there was absolutely no way of even having a wild stab in the dark at someone’s eductional background from working with/supervising them. A few regional accents that went to public school maketh not a revolution in their class structure. FWIW I can talk excellent radio 4 voice/RP for job interviews and mental health review tribunals, but occasionally a long ‘a’ will slip out and betray that I went to a state comprhensive school. In the south west.

Also my experience (it is junior doctors and occupational therapists round my way) is that what the term ‘banter’ means to you is as much an indicator of your schooling as what your banter actually sounds like or the words it consists of. I thought it was something Biggles did until I was at university and made great friends with a couple of lads chaps from Stowe who seemed almost to speak another language when they spoke to each other, and just sounded like Jack Whitehall when in conversation with their less stoic (iirc also the name of the school magazine) friends.

isn’t there quite a bit of evidence that the attitudes instilled in you by your parents when you’re young are the biggest indicators of future success and that the importance of schooling standards is massively overblown?

Yep.

Private schools entrench divisions and elitism

It’s interesting that people with little or no experience of [attending or sending a child] private schools seem to know so much about them.

I went to Public School, didnt help me with spelin or anything else. Strange to call teachers Masters, and they all wore black cloaks.

For a good insight into Public school watch the film “IF”.

“Private schools entrench divisions” – perfect! All those kids with no ability to function without their parents, no real world experience, no social skills, the brats etc all stuck away in one place out of harms way. I am surprised that you are not in favour Grum!

Imagine all the nice kids having to mix which such absolute horrors. Probably put them off their studies…and then there are all the shit teachers who decamped to the private side. Would you want them back?

I went to a small Welsh primary school, state high for a year, then public school and university. It depends what you and your children want from school. Do you want good academic grades? Extra curricular activities, ? Street and urban survival skills? Good grammer? Sports?

It’s interesting that people with little or no experience of [attending or sending a child] private schools seem to know so much about them.

Please explain why I’m wrong then.

THM – eh?

Do you want good academic grades? Extra curricular activities, ? Street and urban survival skills? Good grammer? Sports?

And if you don’t want all those, pay to go private?

Grammer?

Grammer?

I assumed that this was a deliberate mistake, poking fun at the number of basic mistakes in the posts of those supporting private education.

One hopes so, Mike! If not, time for a refund!

😉

My daughter goes to a private school, mainly because it was our only option to keep her in English language based education (we live in The Netherlands) she mixes with children from all over the world and from a huge variety of backgrounds.

She was also in a private school before we came here although in that case it was because we weren’t happy with the teaching in the state school she originally went to (which is consistently one of the best schools in the area). The school in England was a Steiner school, and was in no way shape or form elitist.

So from my experience;

Private schools entrench divisions and elitism.

Really doesn’t ring true, not all fee paying schools are Eton.

Private schools entrench divisions and elitism.

Really doesn’t ring true, not all fee paying schools are Eton.

But, by definition, even ‘minor’ fee-paying schools are going to be exclusive.

Personally I’d rather Steiner schools were state-funded and available as an option to everyone (as long as they don’t teach homeopathy 😉 ).

There are now a growing number of state funded Steiner schools… Thanks to Gove’s “Free” Schools. To suggest Steiner Schools are not elitist is mind blowing imo.